«

-=rjh=- wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> -=rjh=- wrote:
>>> I'm not happy that P2P may be deprioritised, but in practical
>>> terms the effect isn't noticeable.
>>
>> Probably not when you're only paying for a 256 connection. It's
>> ceratinly noticable when you're paying for a 2M connection.
>
> I'm sticking with 256K as long as possible

I wish I'd stayed with the 256K unlimited too. Moving to the 2M plan was a
*big* mistake. It was only my warped sense of fairness that caused me to do
it. After all the crying by Orcon about the big downloaders on unlimited
plans ruining it for everyone I decided against running bittorrent on the
unlimited plan and went to the pay-for-data one. Like I said, warped. I was
averaging 2GB / month on the 256K plan.

>>> Within those
>>> parameters, I think Orcon are doing OK - not great, could do better,
>>> but OK.
>>
>> Then we have different definitions of "OK".
>
> I doubt it, we just have different experiences. I'm just describing
> mine.

Good point. My bad.
--
~misfit~

T'was the Sat, 4 Feb 2006 17:34:49 +1300 when I remembered "~misfit~"
<> saying something like this:

>I wish I'd stayed with the 256K unlimited too. Moving to the 2M plan was a
>*big* mistake. It was only my warped sense of fairness that caused me to do
>it. After all the crying by Orcon about the big downloaders on unlimited
>plans ruining it for everyone I decided against running bittorrent on the
>unlimited plan and went to the pay-for-data one. Like I said, warped. I was
>averaging 2GB / month on the 256K plan.

I'm on the Orcon 2Mbit plan, after being on Xtra's 2Mbit plan and
before that Quicksilver's 256K plan.

To be honest, I've had no problems with Orcon at all. None. For all
intents and purposes, awesome. I haven't seen full speeds on P2P, but
that's OK. The speeds have been more than enough to leave something
going overnight and then it's there. Downloading from Microsoft's
servers have been lightning quick, 200KB a sec, now that's just
awesome.

Compared to dialup, it's all good.
--
Cheers,

Waylon Kenning.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:26:13 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:

> To be honest, I've had no problems with Orcon at all. None.

You must live in a main center then, where they maintain things half
decently.

And you are probably not doing anything demanding.

> For all intents and purposes, awesome. I haven't seen full speeds on P2P,
> but that's OK.

It's not ok.

> The speeds have been more than enough to leave something going overnight
> and then it's there. Downloading from Microsoft's servers have been
> lightning quick, 200KB a sec, now that's just awesome.
>
> Compared to dialup, it's all good.

But you do not compare it to dial-up. You compare it to other broadband.

And when you DO that, you will see the problem.

--

.... Brendan

A man takes his Rotteweiller to the vet.
"My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?"
"Well," says the vet, "let's have a look at him"
So he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then checks his teeth.
Finally, he says, "I'm going to have to put him down."
"What? Because he's cross-eyed? ""No, because he's really heavy"


Note: All my comments are copyright 4/02/2006 6:59:49 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:26:40 +1300, -=rjh=- wrote:


> And so what if Seeby isn't around? Things change, people's priorities
> change, get over it.

*I* do not care what their priorities are; *I* want decent service.

*YOU* can throw your money away however you want, but do not think to tell
me what *I* want out of an ISP!

> That isn't relevant to the service they provide, it is just warm fuzzies.

No, it is not. It is a demonstration of their commitment to service and
customer satisfaction.

Given the low quality of their helpdesk staff, it is essential. The upper
management should always be readily accessible if they want the customers
happy.

Your outdated business school ideology is not worth ****.

> They still have a competent presence in this ng, which is more than other
> ISPs will admit to.

I doubt he is allowed to make any real decisions.

> I'm not happy that P2P may be deprioritised, but in practical terms the
> effect isn't noticeable.

I do not know what planet YOU are on, but here on earth when we get MAYBE
30k/sec on a torrent everyone else on other NZ ISP's are getting 200k/sec
on, you bet your arse it's noticeable!

*I* am paying for 2mbit/sec access to the internet. Not 2mbit access to
Orcon's web caches or email servers.

IF p2p is using the bulk of there bandwidth, then either buy more or stop
advertising it as 2mbit access.

It's bait-and-switch otherwise.

> The shortcomings of the service are due to the Telecom monopoly and the
> CC apparently gutless management of the situation, and I'm not expecting
> that to change.

Of course it is. But Orcon advertise it as 2mbit access to the internet.
But that is not what they give you!

At best you get 2mbit access to there servers.

> Within those parameters, I think Orcon are doing OK - not great, could do
> better, but OK.

I do not think they are doing great. And neither do a lot of other people.
And it's not as if we have not had a lot of patience: we have been having
trouble with the quality of service for literally over a YEAR now.

Sure, some at Orcon might think it's great we are going - they don't want
they heavy users anyway.

But we advise many others, most of them light users, either professionally
or casually. And all of them are increasingly heavy users - they all want
to download music and films, stream video and radio. And the Web is
changing: more multimedia, streaming content. Files are bigger, applets
are bigger.

All this means we are all becoming heavier users. Read the news sites
lately ? Companies such as IBM, Microsoft, Apple, and others cannot offer
there services here due to the poor perforamnce of our 'broadband'. Sure,
it's mostly Telecom's fault, but what about the p2p filtering ? What
happens when streaming video starts to be the norm ? They deprioritise
that too ?

E.g. just when are they going to recognise p2p is only the beginning ? p2p
is the MAJOR reason to HAVE broadband; 256kbit connect is more than fast
enough for web browsing and email.

> They fixed their news server (as they said they would);

They did not! It took nearly a YEAR for them to get around to it.

> they seem to have email sorted;

It should never have BEEN faulty in the first place.

> streaming radio works fine now;

Should not have needed fixing.

> P2P is OK.

It is not.

> All major problems as recently as a year ago.

Bullshit. Gaming is still ****ed up. And the 'Helpdesk' still has 40
minute + waiting times and is staffed by obstructive incompetents. The free
web page server took long enough to fix too, and is still probably not up
to scratch.

Look, you obviously do not know what the hell you are talking about so
stop confusing the issue.

--

.... Brendan

#207373 +(8140)- [X]

<anamexis> oh man
<anamexis> I was opening a coke, right
--> Beefpile (~) has joined #themacmind
<anamexis> and it exploded
<anamexis> ALMOST all over my keyboard
<anamexis> but I got it away just in time
<-- Beefpile has quit (sick ****ers)
<anamexis> :<


Note: All my comments are copyright 4/02/2006 3:51:14 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:35:35 +1300, Craig Whitmore wrote:

>> 40tude Dialog. A clone of Agent, but superior. Has scripting, regular
>> expression filtering, multiple accounts, etc.
>>
>> http://www.40tude.com/dialog/
>
> This is more of a Usenet Reader , with mail fuctionality in it. Just
> like Outlook express is a mail reader with usenet built in.

Beg to differ. Dialog's email system is superior to Outlook's in most
ways. It has sophisticated filtering (featuring regular expressions),
sorting (also with regular expressions), multiple accounts, folders, etc.

>>> and can you not "forward as an attachment" with your email programs?.
>>
>> No, it will not as many others will not.
>
> A high percentage of clients (in what most people use ) including
> outlook, outlook express, Eudora with a free plugin do.

Maybe, but I see no reason to restrict dspam to one system only.

>> 1. Allow dpsam to recognise any attachment as long as it contains a
>> valid email (e.g. a plain text with headers included) and acknowledge
>> as much via email.
>> 2. Allow dpsam to recognise a standard, inline Forwarded message and
>> train on the content OF the message (e.g. not the headers) and
>> acknowledges as much via email.
>
> The problem at the moment is the decoding/automation of the different
> ways of forwarding messages .

I suggest some scripting. Perl, python, etc I guess.

A perl script owns the relevant trainas address, and passes the content to
dpsam directly.

Even simpler: a different address for each of the training methods:

trainasspam - 'forward as attachment'
forwardasspam - inline forwarded email
bulkspam - text file attachment with multiple spams inline

maybe an appropriate script runs each.

> The "forwarding at attachment" is a pretty standard way that alot of
> systems work (it has its own RFC) and as said before the

What RFC ?

>> 1 is useful for mass training - e.g. you send a file with 20 spams in
>> it. 2 is useful for 1 offs. Obviously you have the same system for
>> trainasvalid.
>>
>
> There is another method if you are using IMAP instead of POP which is
> you just move the message to a special folder. If its the "spam" folder
> it trains on it and deletes out of the folder. If its a valid email it
> moves it back into the inbox. but the program you are using doesn't
> support IMAP.

No, it does not support imap. But I like the features of dialog and even
though I extensively use thunderbird and outlook at work I find they give
much more trouble than does dialog.

Thunderbird has it's own bayesian filter built in, but I do not see the
benefit in duplicating orcon's filter. Also it's news reader is basic and
annoying.

> This will come into the near furture as well and also possibly training
> via the webmail system using point/click

Good. But it'd be nice to be able to just attach a bunch of emails into a
file and send it to dspam for mass training.

AND it would be nice if your dpsam acknowledged the success or otherwise
of that: it's a black box. You don't know if it worked or not.

--

.... Brendan

#139697 +(4371)- [X]

<frank> can you help me install GTA3?
<knightmare> first, shut down all programs you aren't using
frank has quit IRC. (Quit)
<knightmare> ...


Note: All my comments are copyright 4/02/2006 3:29:26 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

Waylon Kenning wrote:
> T'was the Sat, 4 Feb 2006 17:34:49 +1300 when I remembered "~misfit~"
> <> saying something like this:
>
>> I wish I'd stayed with the 256K unlimited too. Moving to the 2M plan
>> was a *big* mistake. It was only my warped sense of fairness that
>> caused me to do it. After all the crying by Orcon about the big
>> downloaders on unlimited plans ruining it for everyone I decided
>> against running bittorrent on the unlimited plan and went to the
>> pay-for-data one. Like I said, warped. I was averaging 2GB / month
>> on the 256K plan.
>
> I'm on the Orcon 2Mbit plan, after being on Xtra's 2Mbit plan and
> before that Quicksilver's 256K plan.

Heh! You get around.

> To be honest, I've had no problems with Orcon at all. None. For all
> intents and purposes, awesome. I haven't seen full speeds on P2P, but
> that's OK. The speeds have been more than enough to leave something
> going overnight and then it's there. Downloading from Microsoft's
> servers have been lightning quick, 200KB a sec, now that's just
> awesome.

Well, I have no problem with the speed. html from a good server is full
speed, I get >256kB/s sometimes. Not by much but that's a good speed. P2P is
getting better, after being abysmal, then getting better, then the 3 ATMs
were choked so it slowed right down, then the fourth came on line so it's
better again. I sometimes see >100kB/s on torrents in the early am.

However, I keep getting these bloody PPP drop-outs. ****-loads of them. Five
more since I last mentioned it. The new firmware for my modem that Craig
pointed me to is better in some ways than the last lot. For instance, now it
tells me that my ADSL connection has been up for 3 days 4:10:46 whereas the
PPPoA has only been up for 0 days 3:47:07. In other words, the last time my
PPP connection dropped out was around 6pm this evening. Unfortunatly it only
tells me the length of the current up-time but, in that 3 days the ADSL has
been up the PPP has dropped out 5 times. And the first time it was up for 1
day 16:01:07, the longest connect I've had for ages. It's dropped four times
today; 3:47:02, 4:59:11, 10:16:55 and 17:55:25. Those figures from Orcon's
page for my account.

The thing is, all last week I was trying to find out what was going on. All
they did, all three times that I rang, was try to get me to keep testing my
line. My line is bloody near perfect! The ADSL *never* drops out and the S/N
ratio is great. It's the PPP that's dropping, it's either down to Telecom or
Orcon. But will they listen to me? No! It's "Unplug everything except the
modem and see how it goes". I keep telling them that I've done that (As well
as try another modem). Every time I tell them I've done it they try to get
me to do it for longer. This last time suggested was 5 days. If I unplug
everything, all my phones, except the modem for 5 days and still have
problems (I had problems last time I did it for two days) *then* the techs
will look into it again. *Again*? All they did last time was say that my
situation isn't unusual and is acceptable as far as Orcon is concerned. What
will they do after another 5 days? Will Orcon's position on it have changed?

When I'm connected it's good. It's the random drop-outs and Orcon's refusal
to even discuss them with me that's not fine. I play on-line games and have
four machines in a game at a time. It takes about 20 minutes to set a game
up. You know Murphy's law? It seems to kick in just as I have a game set up
and running. Everything gets dropped and I can't reconnect to the game
server for around 10 minutes as I didn't log out properly the server thinks
that my CD keys are still logged in and you can only have one instance of
each CD key logged in at once. (I have 4 copies of the game) The servers
re-check after about 10 minutes, then let me in again. So I get all my
machines in again, start playing and Murphy kicks in again. You can see how
that could get frustrating? In the game I play, you have to reach a "way
point" so that you can progress for there next time you play. I can play for
an hour or more without getting to the next waypoint and get dumped from the
game. When that happens I have to do it all over again. I've had three
drop-outs spaced about 45 minutes apart a couple of times just after midnite
(the time I prefer to play, it's quiet and I can concentrate). Can you see
what that must be like? And Orcon won't even listen to talk of PPP and S/N
ratios. The helpdesk 'droids don't even know what that means. (You can hear
it in their reactions) All they say is "Unplug everything......". *That's*
the biggest reason why I've signed up with Actrix. I'm told that Actrix will
look into problems (If I still have them when I'm with Actrix, assuming that
it's Telecom's fault and not Orcon's) and will contact Telecom to find out
what can be done.

I've hardly played my game recently. I'm getting emails from members of my
'clan' asking where I am and what's going on. The members of the newsgroup
for the game all know about the problems I've had over the last 18 months
with Orcon. They think NZ has 3rd world internet. I've stopped trying to
defend our country on that front.

> Compared to dialup, it's all good.

Not for my game. I can connect all my PCs on dial-up and play for days on
end from this line. No drop-outs what so ever. It's only the <expletive
deleted> PPP connection that drops out here. If I was *only* gaming I'd go
back to dial-up, even with four PCs playing a 56K modem is sufficient
bandwidth. However, there *is* more to an internet connection than a game.
I'd like to be able to use it for other things as well, things that require
more bandwidth. However, since I'm not gaming so much at the moment I'm
downloading more torrents to watch. (TV sucks). I'd rather be gaming, it's
better for the mind / eye-hand co-ordination and it's a social pass-time.
Unlike watching movies. I refuse to have to pay for both dial-up and ADSL
and change to dial-up for gaming. I have a dial-up connection account with
Orcon for testing OP's modems. However, it's a pay-by-the-hour one, $1.50 /
hour.

Roll on Actrix.
--
~misfit~

>>
>> A high percentage of clients (in what most people use ) including
>> outlook, outlook express, Eudora with a free plugin do.
>
> Maybe, but I see no reason to restrict dspam to one system only.

Its not really DSpam. The problem is getting the message back in
pristine form. If you just forward the message it doesn't include
all the headers and alike and changes the message. IMAP and
"forward as attachment" are just 2 of the ways of doing this.
With Spamcop for example going to a webpage.. pasting the
message into a form or forwarding as attachment are the only
2 ways (AFAIK) you can report the spam. I guess a similar
(paste the message including the headers) could be looked into.

>
> Even simpler: a different address for each of the training methods:
>
> trainasspam - 'forward as attachment'
> forwardasspam - inline forwarded email
> bulkspam - text file attachment with multiple spams inline

Can you email me some of forwardasspam and bulkspam examples
to And I can easily write a script to implement
this in the future

Thanks
Craig

T'was the Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:02:22 +1300 when I remembered Brendan
<> saying something like this:

>> To be honest, I've had no problems with Orcon at all. None.
>
>You must live in a main center then, where they maintain things half
>decently.
>
>And you are probably not doing anything demanding.

I download ISOs. Linux and Windows ones. I watch streaming 500kbs
webcasts. I host content. What's more demanding than this?

>> For all intents and purposes, awesome. I haven't seen full speeds on P2P,
>> but that's OK.
>
>It's not ok.

Sure it is. I say it's OK, so it's OK for me. Some ISPs (Woosh) don't
have news servers. Most people say "That's OK". You'd probably say
"That's not OK". That's fine, no ones holding a gun to your head to
stick with your ISP. There are early termination charges in some cases
but I don't accept that you didn't do research into picking your ISP
before you did it.

>> The speeds have been more than enough to leave something going overnight
>> and then it's there. Downloading from Microsoft's servers have been
>> lightning quick, 200KB a sec, now that's just awesome.
>>
>> Compared to dialup, it's all good.
>
>But you do not compare it to dial-up. You compare it to other broadband.
>
>And when you DO that, you will see the problem.

I did. Remember? 2Mbit Xtra? I find it just as fast. I still see no
problem.

OK, how's this. I see no differences between being on Xtra 2Mbit and
Orcon 2Mbit. By no, none that I cared enough about to notice. Not that
there weren't any, just if there were, they weren't important to me.
--
Cheers,

Waylon Kenning.
See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/WaylonKenning/

T'was the Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:02:23 +1300 when I remembered Brendan
<> saying something like this:

>> And so what if Seeby isn't around? Things change, people's priorities
>> change, get over it.
>
>*I* do not care what their priorities are; *I* want decent service.
>
>*YOU* can throw your money away however you want, but do not think to tell
>me what *I* want out of an ISP!

Weren't you just going on about assuming how I use my internet
connection, and now you're getting all high and mighty about other
people assuming what *you* (noticing the astrix) want from an ISP?
Nicely done.
--
Cheers,

Waylon Kenning.
See my blog at http://spaces.msn.com/WaylonKenning/

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:24:36 +1300, Waylon Kenning wrote:

>>> And so what if Seeby isn't around? Things change, people's priorities
>>> change, get over it.
>>
>>*I* do not care what their priorities are; *I* want decent service.
>>
>>*YOU* can throw your money away however you want, but do not think to tell
>>me what *I* want out of an ISP!
>
> Weren't you just going on about assuming how I use my internet
> connection,

No.

>and now you're getting all high and mighty about other
> people assuming what *you* (noticing the astrix) want from an ISP?

No.

> Nicely done.

The OP was the one doing the assuming (regarding orcon management
priorities) *I* declared no interest in their priorities and stated MINE.
I then commented that the OP can do what he wants, and dismissed his
command to 'get over it'.


I do not know what your problem is waylon but I am sick of you trying to
score points off me like some little kid. You are embarrassing.

--

.... Brendan

#6460 +(4735)- [X]

<studdud> what the **** is wtf


Note: All my comments are copyright 5/02/2006 1:09:01 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.