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Give ADSL ISPs a break

 
 
Gordon
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      12-08-2005
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:18:39 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

> Absolutely. The only bright spot (well, very faint glow) is that if
> Telstra were to really try in this country they could roll over Telecom
> and not even notice, and then you'd see what gouging really is.


So what is stopping them, since it seems that many $ profit is involved.

 
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~misfit~
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      12-08-2005
shannon wrote:
> a.d. wrote:
>
>>
>> New Zealand and Mexico are the only two countries in the world that
>> do not have an unbundled local loop.
>>

>
> Thats not correct


Please back up your contention with facts.
--
~misfit~


 
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JC
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      12-08-2005
Gordon wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:18:39 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>
>>Absolutely. The only bright spot (well, very faint glow) is that if
>>Telstra were to really try in this country they could roll over Telecom
>>and not even notice, and then you'd see what gouging really is.

>
>
> So what is stopping them, since it seems that many $ profit is involved.
>

Well, I don't know if Telstra here is going to be affected, but in
Aussie, they have a new C.E.O and in the next couple of years, there is
going to be 8,000 to 12,000 redundancies. That is from a family member
who currently works for Telstra.
 
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Crash
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      12-08-2005
Gordon wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:18:39 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
>
>
>>Absolutely. The only bright spot (well, very faint glow) is that if
>>Telstra were to really try in this country they could roll over Telecom
>>and not even notice, and then you'd see what gouging really is.

>
>
> So what is stopping them, since it seems that many $ profit is involved.
>

We will never know - but my guess is that with the many Ks of cable laid by
Saturn that TC now own, the fact that TC are not laying any more indicates that
the $ to be made are not worth the $ it costs to lay more cable.

The existing PSTN was largely cabled before Telecom was privatised so in laying
new cable TC face laying cable at today's cost then competing with Telecom who
have far less invested in the cable they use in competition with TC. To counter
that, TC offer a TV service as well as phone and high-speed internet (IIRC)
whereas Telecom don't offer a TV service.

Crash.
 
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shannon
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      12-08-2005
~misfit~ wrote:
> shannon wrote:
>> a.d. wrote:
>>
>>> New Zealand and Mexico are the only two countries in the world that
>>> do not have an unbundled local loop.
>>>

>> Thats not correct

>
> Please back up your contention with facts.


Why, its the OPs unsubstantiated assertion that is contested ?
Look it up for yourself
See if you can find ANY link that supports it.
Start with wikipedias entry on local loop unbundling and see the entry
for Switzerland for instance.
I can see the argument for unbundling, but supporting it with bullshit
is the wrong way to go about it.
 
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~misfit~
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      12-08-2005
shannon wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> shannon wrote:
>>> a.d. wrote:
>>>
>>>> New Zealand and Mexico are the only two countries in the world that
>>>> do not have an unbundled local loop.
>>>>
>>> Thats not correct

>>
>> Please back up your contention with facts.

>
> Why, its the OPs unsubstantiated assertion that is contested ?


Yeah, but any fool can post "Thats (sic) not correct" on the end of a post.
That's just plain lazy and dismissive. You'd get taken a lot more seriously
if you provided corroborating evidence.

> Look it up for yourself


You are the one disagreeing, you can't expect me to believe you just because
you say so and, if you expect me to either prove or disprove everything you
say, then you're in a dream-world.

> See if you can find ANY link that supports it.


No thanks, I'm not calling people liars.

> Start with wikipedias entry on local loop unbundling and see the entry
> for Switzerland for instance.


See above.

> I can see the argument for unbundling, but supporting it with bullshit
> is the wrong way to go about it.


And getting into childish "You're wrong" type statements without showing
evidence is also not the right way to go about it.

Pot - Kettle - Black.
--
~misfit~


 
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shannon
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      12-08-2005
~misfit~ wrote:
> shannon wrote:
>> ~misfit~ wrote:
>>> shannon wrote:
>>>> a.d. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> New Zealand and Mexico are the only two countries in the world that
>>>>> do not have an unbundled local loop.
>>>>>
>>>> Thats not correct
>>> Please back up your contention with facts.

>> Why, its the OPs unsubstantiated assertion that is contested ?

>
> Yeah, but any fool can post "Thats (sic) not correct" on the end of a post.
> That's just plain lazy and dismissive.



Certainly dismissive

 
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Rob J
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      12-12-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> These are my thoughts on this. My opinion. Regurgitated rambling.
>
> I've read through quite a few posts in nz.comp and am amazed how many
> people blame their ISPs for their ADSL speed woes.
>
> Orcon, iHug, Slingshot, Paradise, etc.... People are continually
> complaining that they never get 2mbps like it was advertised.
>
> a) The speed is "up to 2mbps" - in other words the current potential top
> speed, and we all know that 7.6/8mbps is possible on copper/ADSL.
>
> b) Who controls ADSL? Telecom.
>
> Sure you may be an Orcon customer that barely ever gets above 1mbps on a
> 2mbps plan, but hey that's what Unbundled Bitstream (UBS) is all about,
> a substandard offering to shut the competitors mouths up so they don't
> go to the commerce commission. These ISPs can't afford to take on the
> monolithic entity we all know and love.
>
> A recent newspaper article from Telstra stated that Telecom can go jump
> because UBS is crap, that's why Telstra went wholesale for residential.
>
> But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHO you are with, Telecom
> yanks the strings, master of puppets.... you get the drift.
>
> New Zealand and Mexico are the only two countries in the world that do
> not have an unbundled local loop.


We have an unbundled electricity loop, that made f-all difference in the
electricity market.

> And why would Telecom NOT want to let Slingshot call the shots? Money.
> Shareholders. Heads on a chopping block.
>
> As with all large corporations and government agencies, you have to
> REALLY stick it to them before they'll move their bulk towards helping
> Joe Consumer.


Well. Perhaps, just think about it for a moment, kiwishare price
screwdown really could make residential calling services uneconomic.
 
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Rob J
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      12-12-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> a.d. wrote:
>
> > As with all large corporations and government agencies, you have to
> > REALLY stick it to them before they'll move their bulk towards helping
> > Joe Consumer.
> >

>
> Which is why it isn't fair or right to expect a private company to do a god
> job of providing core infrastructural services.
>
> They will always err on the side of profit....and milk Joe Consumer (and Joe
> Business User and Joe Government User - all the Joes).
>
> The thing should never have been sold.
>
> We learn in new ways each year why that is the simple truth.


Nope, we learn that, really, socialists can't bear to have anything in
the public sector actually run along commercial lines. They should all
be lossmakers, wells that governments pour money down regularly for
fringe political causes.
 
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Rob J
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-12-2005
In article <FrRlf.6572$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed)lid says...
> Gordon wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:18:39 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Absolutely. The only bright spot (well, very faint glow) is that if
> >>Telstra were to really try in this country they could roll over Telecom
> >>and not even notice, and then you'd see what gouging really is.

> >
> >
> > So what is stopping them, since it seems that many $ profit is involved.
> >

> We will never know - but my guess is that with the many Ks of cable laid by
> Saturn that TC now own, the fact that TC are not laying any more indicates that
> the $ to be made are not worth the $ it costs to lay more cable.


What it indicates is that Telstra figured they could make more money by
getting the government to rap Telecom over the knuckles than competing
openly with them. Go figure...

>
> The existing PSTN was largely cabled before Telecom was privatised so in laying
> new cable TC face laying cable at today's cost then competing with Telecom who
> have far less invested in the cable they use in competition with TC. To counter
> that, TC offer a TV service as well as phone and high-speed internet (IIRC)
> whereas Telecom don't offer a TV service.


Different infrastructure. Telecom has said they will upgrade their
network, provided LLU isn't forced on them.
 
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