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Orcon Not Whats Advertised

 
 
Bruce Sinclair
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
In article <meLkf.5701$(E-Mail Removed)>, "news.xtra.co.nz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>"Bruce Sinclair" <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote
>in message news:I6Lkf.5697$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Philip <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>>ybakiwi wrote:
>>>> I to agree about Orcon. I to get no where near 2mbps and most of the
>>>> time are slower than dial up
>>>>
>>>> I will not be staying with them once my twelve months is up
>>>
>>>Whop will you move to that would be either faster or cheaper?

>>
>> .. and surely you have a contract that says what they will provide ? If
>> they are not providing it, you don't have to stick to your part of the
>> contract either .. so you should be able to terminate it immediately if
>> that's what you want to do.


>The problem is p2p. Before p2p, net traffic was bursty, meaning there
>would be bursts of data rather than continuous streams. Bursty traffic
>(assuming a random pattern) allows a set bandwidth amount to service a
>greater number of users.
>But, with p2p...the data is continuous so the advantages of 'bursty' traffic
>are negated.
>I liken this to leaving your telephone off the hook and not terminating
>calls - enough people do this and the telephone exchange will become
>blocked.
>Perhaps they underestimated the number of p2p users on their network? In my
>opinion they should ban p2p anyway since 90% usage is illegal. In this
>case, it is the bulk of people ruining p2p for the minority of people he he.


... and all this makes sense ... but if your supply contract says 2 mbps and
you get one or less, that is surely a simple breach of contract ? Terminate
it and get your money back - they failed to provide what they said they
would. Would you accept half a house if someone contrcted to byuild a whole
one ?




Bruce

----------------------------------------
I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good
people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and
only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

Lord Vetinari in Guards ! Guards ! - Terry Pratchett

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)

 
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XP
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 07:18:00 +1300, ybakiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I to agree about Orcon. I to get no where near 2mbps and most of the
>time are slower than dial up
>
>I will not be staying with them once my twelve months is up




Has nothing at all to do with Orcon..

All links out of NZ are slow due to other reasons..


 
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XP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:20:34 GMT, MarkH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>ybakiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>> I to agree about Orcon. I to get no where near 2mbps and most of the
>> time are slower than dial up
>>
>> I will not be staying with them once my twelve months is up

>
>Slower than dial up? It's been a while since you last used dial-up
>hasn't it?
>
>Am I the only one that consistently gets good speeds with Orcon's 2Mb
>plan?
>
>Sure I don't get 2Mb on every thing I access on the internet, some sites
>are very fast and others are not so fast. But purely on a comparison to
>the 256k plan that I was previously on, I am getting much better speeds
>on average.
>
>With 256k:
>Max speed was about 32kB/s.
>Average speed was somewhere around 28kB/s.
>Hitting 32kB/s was common.
>
>With 2Mb:
>Max speed is about 256kB/s.
>Hitting 256kB/s is quite rare on a single download stream.
>
>BUT:
>On a slow download I might get 40-50kB/s - this is still faster than I
>could ever get on the 256k plan.
>
>The average download from a US website might only be about half of the
>max speed - but that is 4 times as fast as the best speed on my old 256k
>plan.
>
>The average combined speed of 2 simultaneous downloads would easily be
>over 200kB/s - this is over 80% of my plans max speed and one hell of a
>lot better than what I got on my 256k plan.
>
>There are many downloads that are available from Aussie mirrors, most of
>the time I can download a single file from an Aussie FTP site and get
>220-240kB/s.
>
>
>With all this ****ing and bitching, whining and moaning it seems to me
>that many posters fail to mention that 99% of their problem is just with
>P2P file sharing. Unless I am getting drastically faster speeds than you
>guys for some strange reason then downloading files from the internet
>from HTTP or FTP is generally quite fast and it is just the severely
>throttled P2P that has your panties in a bunch.
>
>I see a lot of lack of understanding here. The real problem is that the
>small minority that account for the majority of the traffic are doing it
>to a large degree with P2P. Unfortunately the Orcon bandwidth is
>constrained by Telecom and as far as I understand it they can not buy
>more national bandwidth from Telecom. Telecom provide Orcon with a
>fixed amount of bandwidth per Orcon client and the Telecom dictatorship
>can not be reasoned with. With Xtra the problem does not exist because
>the plans they offer are capped at 10G at the top plan and then severely
>slowed after that, they also would have many customers on the lower
>plans using much less than 10Gig. This means that the average amount of
>data used by Xtra customers is much lower than that used by Orcon
>customers. Until Telecom offers to let ISPs pay for a greater capacity
>the only solution is to encourage the very light users to switch to
>Orcon so that the average use gets lowered. A couple of thousand new
>customers that use under 1GB/month would do wonders for the internet
>speed for all of us.
>
>Until the heavy users are balanced out the throttling of P2P is likely
>to continue. Those that need fast P2P may need to find another ISP that
>allows large volumes of internet traffic, but don't restrict the P2P. I
>see that IHUGs top 2Mbit plan offers 40GB peak + 40GB offpeak traffic
>per month (as long as you have your tolls through IHUG), anyone here on
>that plan?
>
>Does anyone here use Slingshot on a 2Mbit plan? They give you 3GB/month
>then offer this:
>How much does additional data cost?
>There are various additional data options for you to choose from.
>Additional data can be purchased via your Slingshot ‘Member Services’
>section and the cost appears on your next monthly bill. There is no
>limit to the amount of data you can purchase
>Additional Data Price
>3GB $5
>10GB $10
>30GB $20
>50GB $30
>
>This seems like an excellent deal for the heavy users, you could pay $30
>for an extra 50GB then $30 for another 50GB - that's 103GB per month for
>$105!





Plus the Phone rental and the ADSL charge, you are Joking..


>Does anyone know about their current P2P performance?




The Internet service here is the Joke of the World..


 
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-=rjh=-
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
~misfit~ wrote:
> MarkH wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>I see a lot of lack of understanding here. The real problem is that
>>the small minority that account for the majority of the traffic are
>>doing it to a large degree with P2P.

>
>
> Mark, I believe that this is a myth. It is no longer a "small minority"
> using P2P. It may still be a minority (as in less than 50%) but if it is it
> isn't small. It may have been the case a year ago but I don't believe it is
> now. For a _lot_ of people it's the only reason they went to 2M plans or
> even ADSL in the first place.


I doubt it is a small minority, but I doubt it is many people either. I
think - and this is also partly from people who I've encouraged to go to
ADSL - that people switch to ADSL because:

It frees up a phone line.

It costs slightly more than a dedicated second phoneline + ISP.

It is easier to share amongst multiple PCs (for some reason, people
don't consider sharing or networking while they are on dialup). Often
households will even take turns dialling out using a modem in each PC.

It is always on, so checking email is quicker, as is IM etc.

Web browsing is faster.

So, I figure that for most people, P2P doesn't really figure - they just
see it as a faster form of dialup.

They seem happy with what they are getting, and I often don't point out
p2p although sometimes kids will be into sharing (but not BT) already.

But Orcon will have the definitive info on how many users use P2P in all
its flavours, it would be very interesting to know. My guess is about
20-30% tops. But if I look at my own traffic, the proportion of non p2p
traffic (say, leaving just email and web browsing) I'd guess that it
could be as low as 10%.
 
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Gordon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 12:47:21 +1300, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

> In my
> opinion they should ban p2p anyway since 90% usage is illegal.


So baby goes out with the bath water.

 
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news.xtra.co.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005

"Bruce Sinclair" <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote
in message news:ciLkf.5704$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <meLkf.5701$(E-Mail Removed)>, "news.xtra.co.nz"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>"Bruce Sinclair" <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote
>>in message news:I6Lkf.5697$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Philip <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> wrote:
>>>>ybakiwi wrote:
>>>>> I to agree about Orcon. I to get no where near 2mbps and most of the
>>>>> time are slower than dial up
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not be staying with them once my twelve months is up
>>>>
>>>>Whop will you move to that would be either faster or cheaper?
>>>
>>> .. and surely you have a contract that says what they will provide ? If
>>> they are not providing it, you don't have to stick to your part of the
>>> contract either .. so you should be able to terminate it immediately if
>>> that's what you want to do.

>
>>The problem is p2p. Before p2p, net traffic was bursty, meaning there
>>would be bursts of data rather than continuous streams. Bursty traffic
>>(assuming a random pattern) allows a set bandwidth amount to service a
>>greater number of users.
>>But, with p2p...the data is continuous so the advantages of 'bursty'
>>traffic
>>are negated.
>>I liken this to leaving your telephone off the hook and not terminating
>>calls - enough people do this and the telephone exchange will become
>>blocked.
>>Perhaps they underestimated the number of p2p users on their network? In
>>my
>>opinion they should ban p2p anyway since 90% usage is illegal. In this
>>case, it is the bulk of people ruining p2p for the minority of people he
>>he.

>
> .. and all this makes sense ... but if your supply contract says 2 mbps
> and
> you get one or less, that is surely a simple breach of contract ?
> Terminate
> it and get your money back - they failed to provide what they said they
> would. Would you accept half a house if someone contrcted to byuild a
> whole
> one ?
>


It is different though to building a house. A house is a well defined
quantity of timber, nails, and iron, with a roughly accurate estimate for
construction.

The dynamics of IP traffic is fluid and a single 'new' application model can
dramatically change the nature of the data. This is nearly impossible to
predict future applications - eg, SMS text messages were considered a
rubbish service by the GSM providers but now is a huge source of income.

But, I suppose, the providers should be forced to pay more attention to
quality of service issues. QoS being the ability to route traffic according
to their service level agreement. Perhaps they need to highlight the
service level commitments in the advertising?


 
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news.xtra.co.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005

"Gordon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 12:47:21 +1300, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
>> In my
>> opinion they should ban p2p anyway since 90% usage is illegal.

>
> So baby goes out with the bath water.
>


well, OK, who here uses p2p for legitimate purposes? Who can say they have
never downloaded any copyrighted material via p2p?

Not many i bet. People think it is OK to download the latest madonna album
or whatever. But, the same people think it is not ok to steal one from the
shop.


 
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news.xtra.co.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005

"XP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:20:34 GMT, MarkH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>ybakiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>news:(E-Mail Removed) m:
>>
>>> I to agree about Orcon. I to get no where near 2mbps and most of the
>>> time are slower than dial up
>>>
>>> I will not be staying with them once my twelve months is up

>>
>>Slower than dial up? It's been a while since you last used dial-up
>>hasn't it?
>>
>>Am I the only one that consistently gets good speeds with Orcon's 2Mb
>>plan?
>>
>>Sure I don't get 2Mb on every thing I access on the internet, some sites
>>are very fast and others are not so fast. But purely on a comparison to
>>the 256k plan that I was previously on, I am getting much better speeds
>>on average.
>>
>>With 256k:
>>Max speed was about 32kB/s.
>>Average speed was somewhere around 28kB/s.
>>Hitting 32kB/s was common.
>>
>>With 2Mb:
>>Max speed is about 256kB/s.
>>Hitting 256kB/s is quite rare on a single download stream.
>>
>>BUT:
>>On a slow download I might get 40-50kB/s - this is still faster than I
>>could ever get on the 256k plan.
>>
>>The average download from a US website might only be about half of the
>>max speed - but that is 4 times as fast as the best speed on my old 256k
>>plan.
>>
>>The average combined speed of 2 simultaneous downloads would easily be
>>over 200kB/s - this is over 80% of my plans max speed and one hell of a
>>lot better than what I got on my 256k plan.
>>
>>There are many downloads that are available from Aussie mirrors, most of
>>the time I can download a single file from an Aussie FTP site and get
>>220-240kB/s.
>>
>>
>>With all this ****ing and bitching, whining and moaning it seems to me
>>that many posters fail to mention that 99% of their problem is just with
>>P2P file sharing. Unless I am getting drastically faster speeds than you
>>guys for some strange reason then downloading files from the internet
>>from HTTP or FTP is generally quite fast and it is just the severely
>>throttled P2P that has your panties in a bunch.
>>
>>I see a lot of lack of understanding here. The real problem is that the
>>small minority that account for the majority of the traffic are doing it
>>to a large degree with P2P. Unfortunately the Orcon bandwidth is
>>constrained by Telecom and as far as I understand it they can not buy
>>more national bandwidth from Telecom. Telecom provide Orcon with a
>>fixed amount of bandwidth per Orcon client and the Telecom dictatorship
>>can not be reasoned with. With Xtra the problem does not exist because
>>the plans they offer are capped at 10G at the top plan and then severely
>>slowed after that, they also would have many customers on the lower
>>plans using much less than 10Gig. This means that the average amount of
>>data used by Xtra customers is much lower than that used by Orcon
>>customers. Until Telecom offers to let ISPs pay for a greater capacity
>>the only solution is to encourage the very light users to switch to
>>Orcon so that the average use gets lowered. A couple of thousand new
>>customers that use under 1GB/month would do wonders for the internet
>>speed for all of us.
>>
>>Until the heavy users are balanced out the throttling of P2P is likely
>>to continue. Those that need fast P2P may need to find another ISP that
>>allows large volumes of internet traffic, but don't restrict the P2P. I
>>see that IHUGs top 2Mbit plan offers 40GB peak + 40GB offpeak traffic
>>per month (as long as you have your tolls through IHUG), anyone here on
>>that plan?
>>
>>Does anyone here use Slingshot on a 2Mbit plan? They give you 3GB/month
>>then offer this:
>>How much does additional data cost?
>>There are various additional data options for you to choose from.
>>Additional data can be purchased via your Slingshot 'Member Services'
>>section and the cost appears on your next monthly bill. There is no
>>limit to the amount of data you can purchase
>>Additional Data Price
>>3GB $5
>>10GB $10
>>30GB $20
>>50GB $30
>>
>>This seems like an excellent deal for the heavy users, you could pay $30
>>for an extra 50GB then $30 for another 50GB - that's 103GB per month for
>>$105!

>
>
>
>
> Plus the Phone rental and the ADSL charge, you are Joking..
>
>
>>Does anyone know about their current P2P performance?

>
>
>
> The Internet service here is the Joke of the World..
>
>


I heard rarotonga is worse.


 
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Fred Dagg
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:02:02 +1300, "news.xtra.co.nz"
<(E-Mail Removed)> exclaimed:

>
>"Gordon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 12:47:21 +1300, news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
>>
>>> In my
>>> opinion they should ban p2p anyway since 90% usage is illegal.

>>
>> So baby goes out with the bath water.
>>

>
>well, OK, who here uses p2p for legitimate purposes? Who can say they have
>never downloaded any copyrighted material via p2p?
>
>Not many i bet. People think it is OK to download the latest madonna album
>or whatever. But, the same people think it is not ok to steal one from the
>shop.
>

Actually, we might as well ban the Internet, as 90% of the traffic on
it is P2P.
 
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MarkH
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-05-2005
XP <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 21:20:34 GMT, MarkH <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Does anyone here use Slingshot on a 2Mbit plan? They give you 3GB/month
>>then offer this:
>>How much does additional data cost?
>>There are various additional data options for you to choose from.
>>Additional data can be purchased via your Slingshot ‘Member Services’
>>section and the cost appears on your next monthly bill. There is no
>>limit to the amount of data you can purchase
>>Additional Data Price
>>3GB $5
>>10GB $10
>>30GB $20
>>50GB $30
>>
>>This seems like an excellent deal for the heavy users, you could pay $30
>>for an extra 50GB then $30 for another 50GB - that's 103GB per month for
>>$105!

>
> Plus the Phone rental and the ADSL charge, you are Joking..


Your maths is bad!

ADSL charge = $45
50GB additional data is $30
Another 50GB is $30

Total is $105

Phone rental might be an issue if you didn't already have a phone, but for
most people this is not the case.

Clearly the price per gig is pretty reasonable, the only thing I don't know
is what the performance is actually like.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
"The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
Maskerade
 
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