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Repost: Orcon UBS choking.

 
 
~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show up in
the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.

Anyway:

*******************************

I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon use layer
7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I accept that. However,
at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so much I might as well be on
dial-up.

See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/

This fourth ATM can't come on-line too soon IMO. I have had Azurus running
for 20 hours now unthrottled (although I pause it when I want to download
groups or play an on-line game) and I have a share ratio of 1.753 for this
session. I have downloaded only 309MB and uploaded 543MB!!! This on a
connection that is supposedly 16 times faster downstream than upstream! This
includes running overnight when one would expect demand to taper off a
little.

Also, I've noticed that, even with Azureus turned off, latency sensitive
applications are running slowly in the last few days particularly. Orcon are
running at 100%+ of their current capacity (Don't beleive that graphic) and
currently aren't able to supply their product as advertised. (Although, in
their TOS, they are covered by a 'best effort' clause).

C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to happen,
don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been with you through
thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender for best NZ ISP? This ATM
should have been on-line two weeks ago. Then I would be singing your praises
instead of suffering a major slow-down.
--
~misfit~



 
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Kazonme
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:05:40 +1300, "~misfit~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show up in
>the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.
>
>Anyway:
>
>*******************************
>
>I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon use layer
>7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I accept that. However,
>at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so much I might as well be on
>dial-up.
>
>See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/


Yes same here

choke , choke choke!

come on Orcon!

 
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wogers nemesis
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:05:40 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

> I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show up in
> the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.
>
> Anyway:
>
> *******************************
>
> I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon use layer
> 7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I accept that. However,
> at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so much I might as well be on
> dial-up.
>
> See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/
>
> This fourth ATM can't come on-line too soon IMO. I have had Azurus running
> for 20 hours now unthrottled (although I pause it when I want to download
> groups or play an on-line game) and I have a share ratio of 1.753 for this
> session. I have downloaded only 309MB and uploaded 543MB!!! This on a
> connection that is supposedly 16 times faster downstream than upstream! This
> includes running overnight when one would expect demand to taper off a
> little.
>
> Also, I've noticed that, even with Azureus turned off, latency sensitive
> applications are running slowly in the last few days particularly. Orcon are
> running at 100%+ of their current capacity (Don't beleive that graphic) and
> currently aren't able to supply their product as advertised. (Although, in
> their TOS, they are covered by a 'best effort' clause).
>
> C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to happen,
> don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been with you through
> thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender for best NZ ISP? This ATM
> should have been on-line two weeks ago. Then I would be singing your praises
> instead of suffering a major slow-down.


It is easier just to leave ...
They want to get rid of any non-http users by the looks of things..
 
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-=rjh=-
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
Kazonme wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:05:40 +1300, "~misfit~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show up in
>>the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.
>>
>>Anyway:
>>
>>*******************************
>>
>>I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon use layer
>>7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I accept that. However,
>>at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so much I might as well be on
>>dial-up.
>>
>>See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/

>
>
> Yes same here
>
> choke , choke choke!
>
> come on Orcon!
>


Orcon must be dealing with 2M and 256K plans differently, or there are
some other factors at play here.

I'm getting >20Kb/s downloading one torrent at present (Ubuntu 5.10 - a
*very* popular torrent) and this is probably during the peak evening
traffic, too.

256/128 Orcon UBS. What are other 256K UBS customers seeing?
 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
wogers nemesis wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:05:40 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show
>> up in the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.
>>
>> Anyway:
>>
>> *******************************
>>
>> I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon
>> use layer 7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I
>> accept that. However, at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so
>> much I might as well be on dial-up.
>>
>> See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/
>>
>> This fourth ATM can't come on-line too soon IMO. I have had Azurus
>> running for 20 hours now unthrottled (although I pause it when I
>> want to download groups or play an on-line game) and I have a share
>> ratio of 1.753 for this session. I have downloaded only 309MB and
>> uploaded 543MB!!! This on a connection that is supposedly 16 times
>> faster downstream than upstream! This includes running overnight
>> when one would expect demand to taper off a little.
>>
>> Also, I've noticed that, even with Azureus turned off, latency
>> sensitive applications are running slowly in the last few days
>> particularly. Orcon are running at 100%+ of their current capacity
>> (Don't beleive that graphic) and currently aren't able to supply
>> their product as advertised. (Although, in their TOS, they are
>> covered by a 'best effort' clause).
>>
>> C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to
>> happen, don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been
>> with you through thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender
>> for best NZ ISP? This ATM should have been on-line two weeks ago.
>> Then I would be singing your praises instead of suffering a major
>> slow-down.

>
> It is easier just to leave ...
> They want to get rid of any non-http users by the looks of things..


I don't believe that. Otherwise they'd have stuck with their flat-rate plans
and just throttled p2p out of existence. Instead they now charge for data.
I've downloaded 29.6GB in the last billing cycle, thereby paying an extra
$20 on top of my monthly charge. I don't mind that *if* it's going to speed
up a bit. At the rate it's going now there's no way I could download that in
the current month.

It's my belief that, by going to a pay-per-10GB plan they are actually
catering for the high-bandwidth users. At least that's what they said, I
wouldn't be penalised so much speed-wise if I was paying for my data as I
would if I was on flat rate.

If you look at the pie-chart on that page you will see that around 60% of
the traffic going through their UBS is p2p. (WTF is "Generic TCP? That's
another 13% or so, the third biggest segment. If that's p2p as well then
we're looking at around 70%). If they want to get rid of non-http users then
they'll lose a large portion of their customer-base. Personally, I have
'broadband' for p2p, the latency on my old Xtra dial-up was better than
Orcon UBS so it's no advantage for gaming. I use my connection for mainly
p2p, gaming and newsgroups. Email too of course but only plain text and a
14.4k modem would be fine for that. I don't use Flash so browsing isn't too
bad on dial-up. I'm paying a premium for data. at speed. They're not
supplying it. Yet their 'new' plans are charging by the GB so it looks to me
like they want high-throughput users.
--
~misfit~


 
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Pacific Dragon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:05:40 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

> This fourth ATM can't come on-line too soon IMO. I have had Azurus running
> for 20 hours now unthrottled (although I pause it when I want to download
> groups or play an on-line game) and I have a share ratio of 1.753 for this
> session. I have downloaded only 309MB and uploaded 543MB!!! This on a
> connection that is supposedly 16 times faster downstream than upstream! This
> includes running overnight when one would expect demand to taper off a
> little.


Just my two cents here and Off the track a little bit.

Sometimes with the cut throat nature of the ISP industry as it is now, I
can't help thinking and dreading (and I sincerely HOPE that I am wrong on
this) that regular slowdowns and outages such as this situation you
describe could probably become the norm for some ISP for the foreseeable
future. There has been mention that Margins are wafer thin with UBS,
resulting in less capital to spend on preventative maintenance and extra
redundancy for anticipated growth.

I remember when I first signed up with Orcon about 5 years ago after having
left Ihug, Orcon charged a much higher price for their Jetstart and Dial up
accounts, but their service quality I believed were second to none.
Throughout the time I had Orcon Dialup and Jetstart, I had experienced very
few if any problems. Things always downloaded fast and their mail, Usenet
and homepage servers hardly blinked. This was I believe due to the fact
they actually had the additional capital for additional preventative
maintenance and for the purchase of extra redundancy to account for growth
way before it was required.

Recently we had to jump ship to Xtra in order to save our Jetstream
Connection from the Chop. I had been waiting patiently on the side lines
for things to pan out on the UBS front, but time obviously ran out.

I am hoping to come back to Orcon in due course, but if what I said in the
first paragraph is true of the current situation, then it looks Like I
could be on *shivers* Telecom Xtra indefinitely. I wonder if Orcon will
ever decide to offer WSA Jetstream along side UBS like World-net have done?
The catch I suppose is that it could be interpreted as an admission that
their own service (Orcon Bitstream) which they provide through UBS is
substandard...
 
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russell
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
"~misfit~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:4389315c$(E-Mail Removed):

> I posted this earlier. It's in my sent items folder but didn't show up
> in the group. Through Orcon. Hmmm.
>
> Anyway:
>
> *******************************
>
> I have Orcon 2M/128k UBS. I run bittorrent sometimes. I know Orcon use
> layer 7 packet sniffing to de-prioritise p2p traffic and I accept
> that. However, at the moment thay've de-prioritised it so much I might
> as well be on dial-up.
>
> See: http://www.orcon.net.nz/index.html/h...tus/bitstream/
>
> This fourth ATM can't come on-line too soon IMO. I have had Azurus
> running for 20 hours now unthrottled (although I pause it when I want
> to download groups or play an on-line game) and I have a share ratio
> of 1.753 for this session. I have downloaded only 309MB and uploaded
> 543MB!!! This on a connection that is supposedly 16 times faster
> downstream than upstream! This includes running overnight when one
> would expect demand to taper off a little.
>
> Also, I've noticed that, even with Azureus turned off, latency
> sensitive applications are running slowly in the last few days
> particularly. Orcon are running at 100%+ of their current capacity
> (Don't beleive that graphic) and currently aren't able to supply their
> product as advertised. (Although, in their TOS, they are covered by a
> 'best effort' clause).
>
> C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to
> happen, don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been
> with you through thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender
> for best NZ ISP? This ATM should have been on-line two weeks ago. Then
> I would be singing your praises instead of suffering a major
> slow-down.


I think the best way for orcon to control p2p download is to have a more
complete news server then less people would use it. My 2 cents
 
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Brendan
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
On 27 Nov 2005 23:48:30 +1200, russell wrote:

>> C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to
>> happen, don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been
>> with you through thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender
>> for best NZ ISP? This ATM should have been on-line two weeks ago. Then
>> I would be singing your praises instead of suffering a major
>> slow-down.

>
> I think the best way for orcon to control p2p download is to have a more
> complete news server then less people would use it. My 2 cents


P2P is the 'killer app' of Broadband.

Fact is, there is no need for it for 99% of web sites or email.

Sharing music, movies, and other large files is what consumer broadband is
about. From it, fortunes will be made or lost.

The main problem with p2p here in nz, is Telecom. The sooner we can leash
this destructive parasite the better for this country.

Orcon and other ISP's should change their business models away from selling
access to their http cache and mail servers and towards p2p.

The RIAA, and MPAA, etc ? irrelevant has beens of a bygone age, as dead as
the dinosaur and not nearly as interesting. They will be remembered as the
Ku Klux Klan of culture. Regardless of the laws they force through, people
have had the taste now. The genie is out of the bottle, thankfully.

Look forward to p2p systems indistinguishable from normal HTTP (to avoid
traffic shaping), that encrypt transfers with military grade encryption,
downloading from thousands of sources, trust facilities that remove rouge
traders in real time, DMCA protected protocols and licenses outlawing
investigations by agents of the MPAA, Open source and un-killable in any
fashion.

And what about the movie industry ? Won't it die ? Yes, and who cares ? As
the fat cats are soo fond of telling us, when technology destroys one
industry, it opens up another. We will have plenty of films made for free:
already amatuer productions are of a quality of multi-million dollar
blockbusters of 15 years ago. Music and movie will be something you and a
few friends can make in your comp room and give away. And so it ****ing
well should be: are you not sick to death of the formula CRAP they dish out
to us and charge long-since-proven-ripoff prices for ?

/rant ends.

--

.... Brendan

#151227 +(4227)- [X]

IronChef Foicite: well, there's a lot of reasons
IronChef Foicite: i mean, roses only last like a couple weeks
IronChef Foicite: and that's if you leave them in water
IronChef Foicite: and they really only exist to be pretty
IronChef Foicite: so that's like saying
IronChef Foicite: "my love for you is transitory and based solely on your
appearance"
IronChef Foicite: but a potato!
IronChef Foicite: potatos last for ****ing ever, man
IronChef Foicite: in fact, not only will they not rot, they actually grow
**** even if you just leave them in the sack
IronChef Foicite: that part alone makes it a good symbol
IronChef Foicite: but there's more!
IronChef Foicite: there are so many ways to enjoy a potato! you can even
make a battery with it!
IronChef Foicite: and that's like saying "i have many ways in which I show
my love for you"
IronChef Foicite: and potatos may be ugly, but they're still awesome
IronChef Foicite: so that's like saying "it doesn't matter at all what you
look like, I'll still love you"


Note: All my comments are copyright 28/11/2005 12:24:25 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
 
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Richard
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-27-2005
-=rjh=- wrote:

> Orcon must be dealing with 2M and 256K plans differently, or there are
> some other factors at play here.
>
> I'm getting >20Kb/s downloading one torrent at present (Ubuntu 5.10 - a
> *very* popular torrent) and this is probably during the peak evening
> traffic, too.
>
> 256/128 Orcon UBS. What are other 256K UBS customers seeing?


Crap is what I am seeing at the moment.

Based on there inability to get me a direct debit form, I think they are totally
incompitent.
 
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-=rjh=-
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-28-2005
Brendan wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2005 23:48:30 +1200, russell wrote:
>
>
>>>C'mon Orcon, get that fourth ATM running! You knew this was going to
>>>happen, don't cut it too fine and annoy the customers who have been
>>>with you through thick and thin. You want to be a serious contender
>>>for best NZ ISP? This ATM should have been on-line two weeks ago. Then
>>>I would be singing your praises instead of suffering a major
>>>slow-down.

>>
>>I think the best way for orcon to control p2p download is to have a more
>>complete news server then less people would use it. My 2 cents

>
>
> P2P is the 'killer app' of Broadband.


Strongly disagree.

P2P is *currently* *one* of the "killer apps" for broadband. Other
people would vote for podcasting, or streaming radio. Others might just
like the fact it is always on, making it irrelevant whether your data
resides on your PC or elsewhere on the net. Some people think Skype is
the "killer app" for broadband.
>
> Fact is, there is no need for it for 99% of web sites or email.


True enough, if you are talking about the speed - and since P2P isn't
realtime, it doesn't require broadband either. But you are ignoring the
always on aspect, which is just as (possibly more) important.
>
> Sharing music, movies, and other large files is what consumer broadband is
> about. From it, fortunes will be made or lost.
>

I don't think sharing is as big a deal as publishing in the first place.
Look at what is happening with personal publishing, for example. Some
people are making real money at it, some are having a real effect on
mainstream media. Some are reaching huge audiences, in near realtime,
without the normal media gatekeepers.

The big deal as I see it wrt to P2P, is the possible use of BT or some
derivative as a widespread transport method.

> The main problem with p2p here in nz, is Telecom. The sooner we can leash
> this destructive parasite the better for this country.
>
> Orcon and other ISP's should change their business models away from selling
> access to their http cache and mail servers and towards p2p.


Absolutely not! That is a myopic viewpoint. If decisions like this were
made a few years ago, the NZ internet would be optimised for streaming
video, as that was what Telecom were thinking broadband was going to be
used for. That's dumb - generally video doesn't need to be realtime.

All traffic should be treated equally. That way the gives the best
chance for the next new thing on the internet to get started. And
treating all traffic equally is the best way to get innovation
happening. It is how the internet was intended to be from the beginning.

Vint Cerf (who knows a little about the internet) recently wrote:

(http://www.interesting-people.org/ar.../msg00149.html)

"The remarkable social impact and economic success of the Internet is in
many ways directly attributable to the architectural characteristics
that were part of its design. The Internet was designed with no
gatekeepers over new content or services. The Internet is based on a
layered, end-to-end model that allows people at each level of the
network to innovate free of any central control. By placing intelligence
at the edges rather than control in the middle of the network, the
Internet has created a platform for innovation. This has led to an
explosion of offerings from VOIP to 802.11x wi-fi to blogging that
might never have evolved had central control of the network been
required by design."

ISPs should just sell us access and data; nothing more, nothing less.
They can (and do) differentiate on added services.

>
> The RIAA, and MPAA, etc ? irrelevant has beens of a bygone age, as dead as
> the dinosaur and not nearly as interesting. They will be remembered as the
> Ku Klux Klan of culture. Regardless of the laws they force through, people
> have had the taste now. The genie is out of the bottle, thankfully.
>

You seem to forget that the whole Hollywood movie culture was itself
born out of rebellion against the incumbent movie system; it is just as
likely that something will take its place. It might even be worse.

> Look forward to p2p systems indistinguishable from normal HTTP (to avoid
> traffic shaping), that encrypt transfers with military grade encryption,
> downloading from thousands of sources, trust facilities that remove rouge
> traders in real time, DMCA protected protocols and licenses outlawing
> investigations by agents of the MPAA, Open source and un-killable in any
> fashion.
>

Not going to happen. Look at it being more likely that MPAA start
figuring out how to use BT distribution in conjunction with DRM. Eventually.

> And what about the movie industry ? Won't it die ? Yes, and who cares ? As
> the fat cats are soo fond of telling us, when technology destroys one
> industry, it opens up another. We will have plenty of films made for free:
> already amatuer productions are of a quality of multi-million dollar
> blockbusters of 15 years ago. Music and movie will be something you and a
> few friends can make in your comp room and give away.


Get real, while there are a few with skills, it isn't going to be just
anybody who can make a movie worth watching. Most people can't even make
a sentence worth reading.

And so it ****ing
> well should be: are you not sick to death of the formula CRAP they dish out
> to us and charge long-since-proven-ripoff prices for ?
>


No, 'cos I just don't see it. It isn't a problem - for me. It might be,
for them. Nobody is forcing you to watch - just ignore it, it'll go
away. There's plenty else to do - too much else, in fact.
 
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