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Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.

 
 
~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
me?

I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*

However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.

Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.
--
~misfit~

* I upgraded to one of the new Orcon plans where you pay for data in 10GB
chunks so now feel that I have the right to download as much as I want,
whenever I want. I carefully considered it before cancelling my legacy
unlimited connection as they don't offer them anymore. Hence the recent
install of Azureus. I'm paying for data transmission now after all. I didn't
feel the same way on the 256k unlimited plan I was on before and never went
over 3GB/month between the two of us using it.

Also, to anyone who feels I'm infringing copyright on the TV programmes; I
sat through watching them on NZ TV, adverts and all, years ago. Therefore
I've 'paid' for the right to view them. I consider it to be no different to
having video taped them years ago and still having the video tapes. That's
not illegal right?


 
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Chris Hope
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      10-28-2005
~misfit~ wrote:

> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
> anyone tell me?


Because Telecom is afraid we might start using our connections to host
stuff like webservers and mail servers? Because they're bastards?

> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder
> and Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB
> connection.*


Hmm, wouldn't that be a breach of copyright downloading those?

> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,


I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p ability
upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore less data
transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little data as
possible.

> downloads running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I
> find virtually everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....)
> even though I'm only using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as
> the uplink is saturated.


Which of course means you need to lower the upload to something like
14kb/s (or lower) to be able to do anything else at all, which in turn
means you can download even slower.

> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for
> my purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very
> rarely.


--
Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz
 
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Chris Hope
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      10-28-2005
Chris Hope wrote:

[snip]

>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,

>
> I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p ability
> upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore less data
> transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little data as
> possible.


Well this part of my argument is a little flawed as you're still going
to upload and download the same amount of stuff, just slower. However I
still think they'd rather it take long to a) discourage people from
doing it in the first place and b) less stuff being downloaded in such
a short amount of time.

[snip]

 
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Peter Huebner
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) says...
> Subject: Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.
> From: ~misfit~ <(E-Mail Removed)>
> Newsgroups: nz.comp
>
> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
> me?
>
> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
> Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*
>
> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
> I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
> around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
> else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
> fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.
>
> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
> purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.
> --
> ~misfit~


I think bittorrent is a bit like gnutella, it gobbles so much overhead
that it paralyses the rest of your connection. Bit like a ddos attack in
nature, really

See if you can find what you want on kceasy. With the fasttrack plugin
(which can still be found with a bit of googling) that thing connects to
4 different networks simultaneously, and you can pick and chose what you
want to download. If you keep your shared directory nice and tidy it
hardly seems to detract from the adsl performance (and I only have
1Mbit) and I get up to 30kB/s downloads at times. Always depends on the
other guy's pipe[s], of course.
The gnutella tidal wave doesn't seem to make it through my firewall <g>
(3com switch/router/adsl modem).

When I find the time, I try to download some of the old stuff I have on
vinyl from Soulseek. Suze's banished my turntable and record collection
from the living room (doesn't like looking at'em). So I want to burn
some mp3 disks and listen to them in the workshop ...

Klite Resurrection is a fasttrack client that even allows you to disable
sharing. It gets very good speeds and does NOT interfere with the
connection much at all.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
 
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David
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>
>>Subject: Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.
>>From: ~misfit~ <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>Newsgroups: nz.comp
>>
>>Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
>>me?
>>
>>I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
>>Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*
>>
>>However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
>>I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
>>around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
>>else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
>>fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.
>>
>>Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
>>purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.
>>--
>>~misfit~

>
>
> I think bittorrent is a bit like gnutella, it gobbles so much overhead
> that it paralyses the rest of your connection. Bit like a ddos attack in
> nature, really
>
> See if you can find what you want on kceasy. With the fasttrack plugin
> (which can still be found with a bit of googling) that thing connects to
> 4 different networks simultaneously, and you can pick and chose what you
> want to download. If you keep your shared directory nice and tidy it
> hardly seems to detract from the adsl performance (and I only have
> 1Mbit) and I get up to 30kB/s downloads at times. Always depends on the
> other guy's pipe[s], of course.
> The gnutella tidal wave doesn't seem to make it through my firewall <g>
> (3com switch/router/adsl modem).
>
> When I find the time, I try to download some of the old stuff I have on
> vinyl from Soulseek. Suze's banished my turntable and record collection
> from the living room (doesn't like looking at'em). So I want to burn
> some mp3 disks and listen to them in the workshop ...
>
> Klite Resurrection is a fasttrack client that even allows you to disable
> sharing. It gets very good speeds and does NOT interfere with the
> connection much at all.
>
> -P.
>


I'd stay well away from fasttrack, gnutella is alright for **** quality
MP3, I would recommend Shareaza (integrates ed2k, G1 and G2), which if
you tell it your connection speed, will set up limits automatically for
optimum performance. I get between 70 and 220kB/s for most files.
 
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Mark Remfrey
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005

"~misfit~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone
> tell me?
>
> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
> Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*
>
> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much
> as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads
> running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually
> everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only
> using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.
>
> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
> purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.
> --



You may be just suffering from a lack of decent seeders for the apparent
slow download speed. I have ADSL, and with a well seeded torrent (I use
Bittorent too), I'll achieve 20 kilobytes/s up, and regularly hit well over
90 to 100 kilobytes/s down. Also if it's a new torrent, and there isn't many
seeders, it will stay slow if the percentage complete where you are sourcing
it from is the same as yours. Basically you cannot get it any faster from
them, than they are getting it from someone else.

The popularity of the torrent plays a big part, if it's not popular, there
won't be many seeders.

As for performance, if I'm gaming I'll throttle Bittorent down to 4
kilobytes/s upload rate without suffering when I play Ghost Recon online at
U.S servers.

--


Regards,
Mark Remfrey

"Two wrongs don't make a right.... it usually takes three or more!"


 
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Peter Huebner
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
In article <8ff8f.3118$(E-Mail Removed)>, daviddl.no-
(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> I'd stay well away from fasttrack, gnutella is alright for **** quality
> MP3, I would recommend Shareaza (integrates ed2k, G1 and G2), which if
> you tell it your connection speed, will set up limits automatically for
> optimum performance. I get between 70 and 220kB/s for most files.
>


Interesting. I had Shareaza a year or two ago, and it didn't work well
for me *at all* with my satellite connection. May give it another go
with adsl now ... (I never used to be able to connect to the
emule/edonkey network either, too much lag presumably - so this could be
an interesting new experience).

-Peter


--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
 
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David
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <8ff8f.3118$(E-Mail Removed)>, daviddl.no-
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
>
>>I'd stay well away from fasttrack, gnutella is alright for **** quality
>>MP3, I would recommend Shareaza (integrates ed2k, G1 and G2), which if
>>you tell it your connection speed, will set up limits automatically for
>>optimum performance. I get between 70 and 220kB/s for most files.
>>

>
>
> Interesting. I had Shareaza a year or two ago, and it didn't work well
> for me *at all* with my satellite connection. May give it another go
> with adsl now ... (I never used to be able to connect to the
> emule/edonkey network either, too much lag presumably - so this could be
> an interesting new experience).
>
> -Peter
>
>


edonkey servers check that you are connectable, if you aren't, many will
disconnect you immediately, especially if they are almost full. Being
connectable (and able to recieve UDP) is particularly important for
decentralised networks too.
 
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Gordon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:44:10 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:

> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
> me?


Lack of competition. BTW Woosh offers higher upstream rates than 128.


> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
> I upload.


Nope, wrong. It rewards those who upload as much as they download. On any
one torrent you are allowed to get you file as fast as you can but then
you *need* to keep your uploading going.


> As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
> around 16kb/s.


Try getting the up to down ratio to be at least one.


> Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
> else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
> fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.


BitTorrent goes after your Up bandwidth like telecom after profit. It will
saturate it and make no apologies for doing so, for your upload is
someones download.

However, one can control things. Azureus, the blue frog, not the crazy
one, as a client can control what your PC is willing to do.

Whant to do something else, tell the frog to stay put, not to jump all
over the place. Tell her she can only have a part of your band width. This
allows you to do other things, then when you have finished let the frog
hop all over the place to bandwidth saturation.

Now, can someone tell me why the word cap did not appear in the original
post?

 
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Gordon
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-28-2005
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:01:11 +1300, Chris Hope wrote:

> Chris Hope wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,

>>
>> I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p ability
>> upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore less data
>> transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little data as
>> possible.

>
> Well this part of my argument is a little flawed as you're still going
> to upload and download the same amount of stuff, just slower. However I
> still think they'd rather it take long to a) discourage people from
> doing it in the first place and b) less stuff being downloaded in such
> a short amount of time.
>

Bittorrent is about shifting data to and *from* ones machine.

 
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