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Gordon wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:01:11 +1300, Chris Hope wrote:
>
>> Chris Hope wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>>>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,
>>>
>>> I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p
>>> ability upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore
>>> less data transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little
>>> data as possible.
>>
>> Well this part of my argument is a little flawed as you're still
>> going to upload and download the same amount of stuff, just slower.
>> However I still think they'd rather it take long to a) discourage
>> people from doing it in the first place and b) less stuff being
>> downloaded in such a short amount of time.
>>
> Bittorrent is about shifting data to and *from* ones machine.

I know this. Telecom (and other ISPs) would prefer we don't shift large
amounts of data in a short amount of time using our internet
connections.

~misfit~ wrote:
> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
> me?
>
> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
> Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*
>
> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
> I upload.

Not so; it isn't a 1:1 ratio. It is related, but on my 256Kb/s
connection I regularly get 32KB/s downloads, well in excess of my
128kb/s uploads (usually ~14kB/s).

But you are right, you have a valid point. I have no idea what the CC
were thinking when they thought 128kb/s was OK. I guess they are
thinking the net is asymetrical, but in some ways, that is changing rapidly.

As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
> around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
> else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
> fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.

I've limited my BT rates a little, just so the link is usable for other
things, 256Kb/s is so slow, that a few extra hours for a download
doesn't really make much difference. But it stuffs up any hope of
listening to internet radio.
>
> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
> purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.

Chris Hope wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
>> anyone tell me?
>
> Because Telecom is afraid we might start using our connections to host
> stuff like webservers and mail servers? Because they're bastards?

The latter I think.

>> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent
>> (Blackadder and Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS
>> 2MB connection.*
>
> Hmm, wouldn't that be a breach of copyright downloading those?

No. LOL, I paid for them once already by watching them on commercial TV. I
watched many hours of advertisments spliced into the programmes. Can you
believe such a barbaric practice is actually accepted as normal?

>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,
>
> I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p ability
> upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore less data
> transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little data as
> possible.

So it would seem.

>> downloads running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I
>> find virtually everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....)
>> even though I'm only using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as
>> the uplink is saturated.
>
> Which of course means you need to lower the upload to something like
> 14kb/s (or lower) to be able to do anything else at all, which in turn
> means you can download even slower.

Excatly. I just went to try playing my game but it's really laggy at this
time of the night so I gave up and started Azureus instead. <g>
And to think I'm being charged by the GB for this "service".
--
~misfit~

Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <>,
> says...
>> Subject: Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.
>> From: ~misfit~ <>
>> Newsgroups: nz.comp
>>
>> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
>> anyone tell me?
>>
>> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent
>> (Blackadder and Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS
>> 2MB connection.*
>>
>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,
>> downloads running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I
>> find virtually everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....)
>> even though I'm only using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as
>> the uplink is saturated.
>>
>> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection
>> for my purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream
>> very rarely. --
>> ~misfit~
>
> I think bittorrent is a bit like gnutella, it gobbles so much overhead
> that it paralyses the rest of your connection. Bit like a ddos attack
> in nature, really
>
> See if you can find what you want on kceasy. With the fasttrack plugin
> (which can still be found with a bit of googling) that thing connects
> to 4 different networks simultaneously, and you can pick and chose
> what you want to download. If you keep your shared directory nice and
> tidy it hardly seems to detract from the adsl performance (and I only
> have 1Mbit) and I get up to 30kB/s downloads at times. Always depends
> on the other guy's pipe[s], of course.
> The gnutella tidal wave doesn't seem to make it through my firewall
> <g> (3com switch/router/adsl modem).

Hi Peter. I've just downloaded and installed kceasy and fasttrack 0.8.9.

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a play.

> When I find the time, I try to download some of the old stuff I have
> on vinyl from Soulseek. Suze's banished my turntable and record
> collection from the living room (doesn't like looking at'em). So I
> want to burn some mp3 disks and listen to them in the workshop ...

And why not? I have a policy of feeling free to download anything that I
used to own on vinyl/CD. I used to flat and I have had litterally hundreds
of albums destroyed over the years by party animals. I figure I've paid the
royalties once already, the media I bought it on was too fragile so now I'm
getting it in a different format.

> Klite Resurrection is a fasttrack client that even allows you to
> disable sharing. It gets very good speeds and does NOT interfere with
> the connection much at all.

Cheers,
--
~misfit~

Mark Remfrey wrote:
> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
>> anyone tell me?
>>
>> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent
>> (Blackadder and Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS
>> 2MB connection.* However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only
>> download as
>> much as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating,
>> downloads running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I
>> find virtually everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....)
>> even though I'm only using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as
>> the uplink is saturated. Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart
>> 128kb/s connection
>> for my purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream
>> very rarely. --
>
>
> You may be just suffering from a lack of decent seeders for the
> apparent slow download speed. I have ADSL, and with a well seeded
> torrent (I use Bittorent too), I'll achieve 20 kilobytes/s up, and
> regularly hit well over 90 to 100 kilobytes/s down. Also if it's a
> new torrent, and there isn't many seeders, it will stay slow if the
> percentage complete where you are sourcing it from is the same as
> yours. Basically you cannot get it any faster from them, than they
> are getting it from someone else.

Yes. However, some of the torrents I've downloaded have been *very* popular
(House, series 2, only up to episode 3 in the US) and are still slower than
the upload speed.

> The popularity of the torrent plays a big part, if it's not popular,
> there won't be many seeders.

Sure.

> As for performance, if I'm gaming I'll throttle Bittorent down to 4
> kilobytes/s upload rate without suffering when I play Ghost Recon
> online at U.S servers.

Ok, thanks for that.
--
~misfit~

Gordon wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:44:10 +1300, ~misfit~ wrote:
>
>> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
>> anyone tell me?
>
> Lack of competition. BTW Woosh offers higher upstream rates than 128.

Right.

>> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as
>> much as I upload.
>
> Nope, wrong. It rewards those who upload as much as they download. On
> any one torrent you are allowed to get you file as fast as you can
> but then you *need* to keep your uploading going.

Didn't work that way for me. Right from the get-go I've only downlaoded as
much as I've uploaded. Except for the first 'packet' of course.

>> As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
>> around 16kb/s.
>
> Try getting the up to down ratio to be at least one.

It is I'd say. Each torrent varies of course, some are 0.5, some are 1.8. I
can't find a total ratio listed anywhere.

>> Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
>> else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only
>> using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is
>> saturated.
>
> BitTorrent goes after your Up bandwidth like telecom after profit. It
> will saturate it and make no apologies for doing so, for your upload
> is someones download.

Sure.

> However, one can control things. Azureus, the blue frog, not the crazy
> one, as a client can control what your PC is willing to do.

I know but if I throttle the upload the download drops accordingly.

> Whant to do something else, tell the frog to stay put, not to jump all
> over the place. Tell her she can only have a part of your band width.
> This allows you to do other things, then when you have finished let
> the frog hop all over the place to bandwidth saturation.

I find it easier to just stop and re-start it.

> Now, can someone tell me why the word cap did not appear in the
> original post?

Because I'm on an Orcon "Autosense" plan. I pay $X a month for 1GB, then a
further $10 for each 10GB block after that. That's why I feel free to
download so much now, I'm paying for what I download so am not "leeching"
anyone else's bandwidth. On Orcon's website they say they've significantly
increased their international bandwidth (as they should as they're charging
for it by the GB now).
--
~misfit~

-=rjh=- wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can
>> anyone tell me?
>>
>> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent
>> (Blackadder and Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS
>> 2MB connection.* However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only
>> download as
>> much as I upload.
>
> Not so; it isn't a 1:1 ratio. It is related, but on my 256Kb/s
> connection I regularly get 32KB/s downloads, well in excess of my
> 128kb/s uploads (usually ~14kB/s).

Maybe not an exact 1:1 ratio. However, maybe I'm just unlucky but I seem to
be uploading more than I'm downloading. (I have DUMeter running).

> But you are right, you have a valid point. I have no idea what the CC
> were thinking when they thought 128kb/s was OK. I guess they are
> thinking the net is asymetrical, but in some ways, that is changing
> rapidly.

Yes.
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

[snip]

>> Now, can someone tell me why the word cap did not appear in the
>> original post?
>
> Because I'm on an Orcon "Autosense" plan. I pay $X a month for 1GB,
> then a further $10 for each 10GB block after that. That's why I feel
> free to download so much now, I'm paying for what I download so am not
> "leeching" anyone else's bandwidth. On Orcon's website they say
> they've significantly increased their international bandwidth (as they
> should as they're charging for it by the GB now).

About to go on that plan myself on about Wed next week. Hopefully I
don't have the same issues when I went from Xtra/Jetstream to
Ihug/Bitstream and had no connection for about 2 or 3 days...

--
Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.co.nz

~misfit~ wrote:

> Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone
> tell me?

Telecom doesn't want you running servers at anything more than the barest
minimum level of throughput.

> I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
> Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*

Yes.

> However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much
> as I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads
> running at around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually
> everything else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only
> using a tiny fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.

I've seen Bittorrent do much better than that (on Linux, anyway).

> Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
> purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.

Try gtk-gnutella / Bearshare / Limewire / <whatever>

Those old TV shows are out there.

~misfit~ wrote:

>> Hmm, wouldn't that be a breach of copyright downloading those?
>
> No. LOL, I paid for them once already by watching them on commercial TV. I
> watched many hours of advertisments spliced into the programmes. Can you
> believe such a barbaric practice is actually accepted as normal?

Good point.