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Orcon UBS... Again

 
 
Richard
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      09-22-2005
Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.

Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.
 
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~misfit~
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-23-2005
Richard wrote:
> Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
>
> Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.


It's driving me crazy! Just when I think they've got everything sorted and I
get comfortable with my connection they **** it up again. Every time without
fail.

I rang them yesterday about my planned upgrade. I spoke to a guy well over a
week ago and ordered the 2MB with tolls package. He told me that I'd be
switched to Orcon tolls in two days and that I'd get an email from the DSL
provisioning team in the next 24 hours informing me of when the speed
upgrade will go ahead.

So I rang yesterday having not heard anything from them and wondering who I
was going to have to pay for my recent toll calls. I'd checked my line speed
three times in the preceeding hour and it was average/low for 256k. The
person I spoke to looked at my file and said it was strange. I asked in what
way. She said that, according to my details I was already on 2MB (Yeah,
right) and that the other guy was mistaken, orcon tolls hasn't 'gone live'
yet and won't for at least a couple weeks, I'd be changed over and informed
by email when it happens.

She told me she'd put an urgent memo through to provisioning and they'd
email me pronto and let me know what was going on. I haven't got an email
yet...........

Orcon, the new NZ slang term to replace 'Mickey Mouse'. Instead of saying
"That's pretty bloody Mickey Mouse" it'll soon be "That's pretty damn Orcon"
or "Avoid them, they're an Orcon outfit".
--
~misfit~


 
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Stephen Worthington
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-23-2005
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:50:28 +1200, Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
>
>Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.


You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
including Telecom/Xtra.

I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
26-Aug), I had short outages at:

26-Aug 21:42
02-Sep 21:41
09-Sep 21:41
16-Sep 21:41
23-Sep 21:41

The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
(it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.

I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
case.

And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
hours.
 
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Richard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-23-2005
Stephen Worthington wrote:

> You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
> Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
> problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
> same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
> elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
> affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
> including Telecom/Xtra.


Not my problem, orcon need to get telecom to fix it, I am paying orcon for an
internet connection

> I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
> 26-Aug), I had short outages at:
>
> 26-Aug 21:42
> 02-Sep 21:41
> 09-Sep 21:41
> 16-Sep 21:41
> 23-Sep 21:41
>
> The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
> say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
> most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
> copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
> (it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
> expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
> retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.


Except most routers will clear the nat table when the PPP is downed so yeah, all
TCP connections are interupted, and UDP will be dead till a packet goes out.

> I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
> them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
> patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
> case.


Unfortunalty there is no logs of the PPPoA on the nokia routers so I cant

> And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
> Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
> problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
> anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
> Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
> its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
> an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
> sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
> outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
> hours.


I have being tempted to get a cisco many times with the issues I have with nat
on the nokia, but everytime the cost has put me off it.
 
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Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2005
Hi there

We had a few unfortunate and unrelated issues last week which are now
resolved:

1) We have recently migrated to two Juniper ERX's to replace our old one
(ERX's terminate our UBS connections from Telecom). The new ERXs were
shipped to us with an old version of firmware which has a bug, and this took
us a little while to diagnose. The software bug resulted in a total of three
15 minute outages at random times. Unfortunately, some people's DSL routers
don't automatically try to re-connect, and therefore sometimes unless you
reset your router, people's connections wouldn't work. This can give the
perception that outages are lasting longer than they actually are

2) We had a software fault in our core switch and a second unrelated but
similar fault in one of our core routers. Both of these were monitored and
no explantion can be found. We now have standby hardware. This resulted in a
couple of outages where equipment was rebooting, but had follow on effects
of routes not propagating in our network etc.

3) we did some scheduled maintenance last sunday morning, and we're doing
some more this sunday - so that will result in a few resets of TCP
connections if people happen to be online or downloading at 4am on a Sunday
morning.

We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and believe that
our network is vastly improved. These outages have been very frustrating for
that reason, but we definitely believe that we should be on top of things
and that this really shouldn't be happening from now on.

Cheers
Seeby

"Richard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
>
> Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems there.



 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2005
Seeby Woodhouse - Orcon Internet wrote:
> Hi there


Hi Seeby, thanks for responding.

> We had a few unfortunate and unrelated issues last week which are now
> resolved:


Ok.

> 1) We have recently migrated to two Juniper ERX's to replace our old
> one (ERX's terminate our UBS connections from Telecom). The new ERXs
> were shipped to us with an old version of firmware which has a bug,
> and this took us a little while to diagnose. The software bug
> resulted in a total of three 15 minute outages at random times.
> Unfortunately, some people's DSL routers don't automatically try to
> re-connect, and therefore sometimes unless you reset your router,
> people's connections wouldn't work. This can give the perception that
> outages are lasting longer than they actually are


My router is good like that, it automatically tries to reconnect every 15-20
seconds or so if it loses the connection, hence I see things on your usage
page for my data usage (on your site) such as these two days:

2005-09-22 16:00:48
2005-09-22 09:42:00
2005-09-22 09:39:54
2005-09-22 08:38:48
2005-09-22 08:38:19
2005-09-22 08:37:01
2005-09-22 08:35:44

And:
2005-09-16 14:41:42

2005-09-16 13:15:24

2005-09-16 13:13:05

2005-09-16 08:41:58

2005-09-16 08:41:35

2005-09-16 08:06:40

2005-09-16 08:04:23

2005-09-16 08:03:22

2005-09-16 08:01:51

2005-09-16 08:00:25

2005-09-16 06:38:58

2005-09-16 06:38:28

2005-09-16 06:37:00

2005-09-16 06:09:47

2005-09-16 05:13:51

Now those represent successful connections right? (Please, correct me if I'm
wrong) That means each time it connected was because it was disconnected
prior to the re-connection. Rather more than a total of three outages.

(That looks really messy in my client. Sorry about that, I had major
problems cut'n'pasting it and then removing irrelevant data. I hope it looks
better when you view it. Anyway, you should be able to see that the
connection was going up and down like a (very busy) prostitutes panties on
those two days. (The worst two days for the month I admit)

Now I know it's not my router causing problems because it's a little beauty.
I have to concede that it could be the phone-line although, when I was on
jetstream, I got awesome download speeds with minimal downtime (If any) and
it hasn't troubled me in all the years I was here on dial-up. Constantly
connected to Xtra for weeks on end. (We don't need no steenking land-line
incoming calls)

For the month before, again from your "My Usage" page, the longest
connection was:

2005-08-10 10:57:04 Connected 12 days, 12:43:00 271.62 MB
779.05 MB BitStream.

Although there were a couple of days in the July/August billing period where
I had problems too:

2005-08-10 10:57:04

2005-08-10 10:09:01

2005-08-10 01:59:33

2005-08-10 01:54:55

And:

2005-07-23 00:17:54

2005-07-23 00:02:26

2005-07-23 00:00:36



(Note that this data only shows the time of connection. I have no way of
telling from your page how long I was actually disconnected for between the
succsessful re-connections)


The other longest periods connected for that month were 9 days, 3 days and 2
days. Your history goes back no further so I can't say if I've ever been
connected for longer than 12 days.

> 2) We had a software fault in our core switch and a second unrelated
> but similar fault in one of our core routers. Both of these were
> monitored and no explantion can be found. We now have standby
> hardware. This resulted in a couple of outages where equipment was
> rebooting, but had follow on effects of routes not propagating in our
> network etc.
> 3) we did some scheduled maintenance last sunday morning, and we're
> doing some more this sunday - so that will result in a few resets of
> TCP connections if people happen to be online or downloading at 4am
> on a Sunday morning.
>
> We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and
> believe that our network is vastly improved. These outages have been
> very frustrating for that reason, but we definitely believe that we
> should be on top of things and that this really shouldn't be
> happening from now on.


Pleased to hear it Seeby.
--
~misfit~


 
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~misfit~
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2005
Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:50:28 +1200, Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Looks like it just came up again in the last 5 mins.
>>
>> Its really getting insane how frequent they are having problems
>> there.

>
> You do realise that a large chunk of the network doing UBS is
> Telecom's, not Orcons's? Including the bits most likely to cause
> problems. Chances are that the people having problems live in the
> same geographic area and are affected by the same problems. People
> elsewhere will report reliable connections, and likely all ADSL in the
> affected area will have problems, no matter what ISP is involved,
> including Telecom/Xtra.


I have a friend just up the road, on the same DSLAM (I don't think they've
put in an ASAM here yet) who is with Xtra on a 2BM plan and he's had a
perfect connection record. Zero outages except for one a couple months back
that took out the whole DSLAM for a few hours.

> I am with World-Net, and according to my log files (which go back to
> 26-Aug), I had short outages at:
>
> 26-Aug 21:42
> 02-Sep 21:41
> 09-Sep 21:41
> 16-Sep 21:41
> 23-Sep 21:41
>
> The down time on all these was 6-7 s, and given the pattern I would
> say it is caused by a regular weekly automated test being done. The
> most likely culprit for this is Telecom doing a line test on my
> copper. This is not really a worry - with such a short outage time
> (it just lost the line protocol, not the ADSL carrier), I would not
> expect that existing TCP/IP connections would drop - they would just
> retry once or twice and then be running again at full speed.
>
> I presume your disconnections are rather longer if you are noticing
> them happening. It would be a good idea if you have logs to check for
> patterns in your disconnections and see what you can work out in your
> case.


Indeed. However I don't have logs as such. If this contimues I'll set up an
old pentium as an always-on monitoring device. I have the software to do it,
a nice little app that monitors the SNMP from my router. (MRTG)

> And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
> Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
> problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
> anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
> Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
> its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
> an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
> sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
> outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
> hours.


Thanks for your input Stephen. Hope your weekend is going well.
--
~misfit~


 
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Stephen Worthington
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2005
On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:02:38 +1200, Richard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Stephen Worthington wrote:


>> And you certainly should complain about it - if nothing else, it gives
>> Orcon the information they might need to get Telecom to acknowledge a
>> problem and start trying to fix it. Telecom often tries to deny
>> anything is happening, but I am in the fortunate situation of having a
>> Cisco 827 running my ADSL connection, and once Telecom gets a copy of
>> its (comprehensive) log files, they have to give in and agree there is
>> an actual problem. But the last time I had a problem that needed that
>> sort of attention was over 2 years ago - my last actually noticeable
>> outage was when half of Lower Hutt lost its power for a couple of
>> hours.

>
>I have being tempted to get a cisco many times with the issues I have with nat
>on the nokia, but everytime the cost has put me off it.


Ciscos are much cheaper now than they were when I got mine, but still
much more expensive than most other ADSL boxes. When I got mine,
there was only the choice of a Nokia or Cisco, IIRC, and I am very
glad I got a Cisco as it has a 24 V AC power supply. I am quite some
distance from the exchange, and it turns out that having the extra
signaling headroom provided by running from 24 V instead of 12 V is
what makes the difference between connecting or not this far away. All
the extra features you get in a Cisco are nice too, but they only work
if you can connect in the first place. I did not know all that when I
got my Cisco 827 - it was pretty early in the use of ADSL in NZ, and I
suspect the Telecom tech people did not know about that problem at the
time either.

But... Programming a Cisco is not for the faint hearted. I managed to
get most of the simple stuff working by using their web site and an NZ
one that gave basic setups, but I have had to call on Cisco tech
support far more than I would have liked over the years to get the
extra things to work. Which means paying them for an annual support
contract, which again is much, much cheaper than it used to be, but
still an annoying amount every year. And even after all the years I
have had it, they have still not fixed one logging bug!
 
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Waylon Kenning
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-24-2005
T'was the Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:03:27 +1200 when I remembered "Seeby
Woodhouse - Orcon Internet" <(E-Mail Removed)> saying
something like this:

>We have recently spent a lot of money and time on upgrades, and believe that
>our network is vastly improved. These outages have been very frustrating for
>that reason, but we definitely believe that we should be on top of things
>and that this really shouldn't be happening from now on.


Seeby,

I congratulate you on being honest to your customers, I think as long
as most people are informed about what is going on, they tend not to
complain as much. This doesn't necessarily go for those in nz.comp,
but I was talking about the majority more than the minority here.
--
Cheers,

Waylon Kenning.
 
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Paul
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-26-2005
"~misfit~" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>
>My router is good like that, it automatically tries to reconnect every 15-20
>seconds or so if it loses the connection, hence I see things on your usage
>page for my data usage (on your site) such as these two days:
>
>2005-09-22 16:00:48
>2005-09-22 09:42:00
>2005-09-22 09:39:54
>2005-09-22 08:38:48
>2005-09-22 08:38:19
>2005-09-22 08:37:01
>2005-09-22 08:35:44
>
>And:
>2005-09-16 14:41:42
>
>2005-09-16 13:15:24
>
>2005-09-16 13:13:05
>
>2005-09-16 08:41:58
>
>2005-09-16 08:41:35
>
>2005-09-16 08:06:40
>
>2005-09-16 08:04:23
>
>2005-09-16 08:03:22
>
>2005-09-16 08:01:51
>
>2005-09-16 08:00:25
>
>2005-09-16 06:38:58
>
>2005-09-16 06:38:28
>
>2005-09-16 06:37:00
>
>2005-09-16 06:09:47
>
>2005-09-16 05:13:51
>
>Now those represent successful connections right? (Please, correct me if I'm
>wrong) That means each time it connected was because it was disconnected
>prior to the re-connection. Rather more than a total of three outages.

Hi Misfit
If your Dsl is dropping I dont think that will have anything to do
with orcon The dsl link is between your dslam and router So could be
a faulty port,line,router or setup ie a missed filter or faulty filter
If its your ppp dropping then that could be orcons fault
I would ring telecom <if u dont mind the wait> and ask for a linetest
also try a standard cord from router to jackpoint as there has been a
lot of problems with the self install filters <dlink are the worst> as
the router doesnt need a filter only the phones,sky decoders ect do
Btw when you were getting your slow speeds to the states was it only
on the 1st International test <www.speedtest.co.nz>?

Cheers -Paul
"Overclockers do it hotter and faster"
 
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