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(Another) example of how Patents/IP laws Block Innovation

 
 
FreedomChooser
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:08:22 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Dumbkiwi wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>> Microsoft = monopoly
>>
>> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>
>Quite right, OSS is all about individual choice, individual freedoms. MS
>seeks to deny user choice by dictating a single OS and deliberately
>disrupting protocols and formats (eg html, file formats, etc).


No
OSS is vehicle of choice to socialist who despise captialism in all
forms
Specially big captialist companies like Microsoft

Its funny how every OSS fanatic always mentions microsoft
microsoft do not dicatate their OS they do not force people to buy it

>OSS has low barrier to entry.


false

>MS is hell bent on raising enormous barriers to entry (eg their massive
>drive on bogus patents).


Lots of companys hold these patents
IBM & apple hold a lot betwen them
so what

 
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Dumbkiwi
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-15-2005
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi there,
>>>>
>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>steve wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
>>>>>>>filed,"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh really
>>>>> how is that
>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
>>>>
>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
>>>
>>> bullcrap
>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
>>> idea before apple thought it up
>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
>>> stop MS Windows
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
>>>
>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
>>> objective truth
>>>
>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form

>>
>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>> Microsoft = monopoly
>>
>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>
> linux is not about free market
> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
> socialists
>
> Microsoft is not a monopoly


is too.
 
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FreedomChooser
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>steve wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
>>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
>>>>>>>>filed,"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
>>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh really
>>>>>> how is that
>>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
>>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
>>>>>
>>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
>>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
>>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
>>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
>>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
>>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
>>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
>>>>
>>>> bullcrap
>>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
>>>> idea before apple thought it up
>>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
>>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
>>>> stop MS Windows
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
>>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
>>>>
>>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
>>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
>>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
>>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
>>>> objective truth
>>>>
>>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
>>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
>>>
>>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>>> Microsoft = monopoly
>>>
>>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>>
>> linux is not about free market
>> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
>> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
>> socialists
>>
>> Microsoft is not a monopoly

>
>is too.


you make the claim you prove it

 
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dmbkiwi@gmail.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-15-2005

FreedomChooser wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
> >>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Hi there,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>steve wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
> >>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
> >>>>>>>>filed,"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
> >>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oh really
> >>>>>> how is that
> >>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
> >>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
> >>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
> >>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
> >>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
> >>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
> >>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
> >>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
> >>>>
> >>>> bullcrap
> >>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
> >>>> idea before apple thought it up
> >>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
> >>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
> >>>> stop MS Windows
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
> >>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
> >>>>
> >>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
> >>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
> >>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
> >>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
> >>>> objective truth
> >>>>
> >>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
> >>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
> >>>
> >>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
> >>> Microsoft = monopoly
> >>>
> >>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?
> >>
> >> linux is not about free market
> >> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
> >> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
> >> socialists
> >>
> >> Microsoft is not a monopoly

> >
> >is too.

>
> you make the claim you prove it


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microso...trust_problems

 
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AD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-15-2005
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:25:16 -0700, dmbkiwi wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microso...trust_problems


Wikipedia is part of the global socialist conspiracy of MS haters to
destroy their ability to innovate!!!!

MS needs your help! For the sake of freedom loving peoples everywhere,
fight the commies who hate us for our way of life.

Act now, before it is too late!

--
Cheers
Anton

 
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steve
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-16-2005
Dumbkiwi wrote:

> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
> Microsoft = monopoly
>
> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?


It's sad isn't it?

Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
democracy or "innovation".

Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.




 
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FreedomChooser
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-16-2005
On 15 Aug 2005 11:25:16 -0700, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
>FreedomChooser wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:11:00 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:19:02 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:36:15 +1200, Dumbkiwi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 03:13:22 +0000, FreedomChooser wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:52:23 +1000, Chris Wilkinson
>> >>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Hi there,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:26:07 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>steve wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>"Apple invented and publicly released the iPod interface before the
>> >>>>>>>>Microsoft patent application cited by the (patent) examiner was
>> >>>>>>>>filed,"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>just shows how crooked MS is, and how they will (ab)use legislative
>> >>>>>>>mechanisms to defeat competitors and stifle innovation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Oh really
>> >>>>>> how is that
>> >>>>>> apple filed their own patents on the ipod apple must also be crooked
>> >>>>>> and all the rest wouldnt you agree
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Not at all. Apple are simply protecting something which they have
>> >>>>>actually put to market. In stark contrast Microsoft are filing patents
>> >>>>>for ideas, in the hope that someone else will want to pay them the
>> >>>>>royalties to actually implement those ideas. That gives them a revenue
>> >>>>>stream, but if no-one wants to use the idea then everyone misses out on
>> >>>>>whatever that idea may have been able to bring to the market...hence
>> >>>>>the stifling of innovation bit...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> bullcrap
>> >>>> If Ms's patent applies to the ipod then it follows Ms must have had the
>> >>>> idea before apple thought it up
>> >>>> Remember also Apple has the intent of using patents to stiffle other
>> >>>> people from using the ideas as they tried to use their OS patents to
>> >>>> stop MS Windows
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I think you are intelligent enough to realise that, but you do seem to
>> >>>>>hold some other agenda. Are you working for MS?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> oh yeah I do have an agenda
>> >>>> Its to oppose the propogandists like yourself who foam at the mouth
>> >>>> every time someone mentions companies like Microsoft Its so entertainig
>> >>>> watching you ideologoues push you blatant biased cant as if it were
>> >>>> objective truth
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The reality is for most of your pro Linux propagandists is a bunch of
>> >>>> socialists who oppose capitalism and any kind of freedoms in any form
>> >>>
>> >>>Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>> >>> Microsoft = monopoly
>> >>>
>> >>>Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?
>> >>
>> >> linux is not about free market
>> >> its about socialist opposed to captialism in all its forms its no wonder
>> >> linux is so loved by the greens party and most of its proponents here are
>> >> socialists
>> >>
>> >> Microsoft is not a monopoly
>> >
>> >is too.

>>
>> you make the claim you prove it

>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microso...trust_problems


does not say Ms is a monopoly
the case found not that Ms was a monoply but that they excercised
monopoly power

IF MS was a monopoly there would be no Macintosh and no Linux

 
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FreedomChooser
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-16-2005
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:56:35 +1200, steve
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Dumbkiwi wrote:
>
>> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>> Microsoft = monopoly
>>
>> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>
>It's sad isn't it?
>
>Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
>monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
>democracy or "innovation".
>
>Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.


bullcrap
The real agenda behind the open source movement is world wide
communism

communism and freedon are mutually exclusive

 
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steve
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      08-16-2005
FreedomChooser wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:56:35 +1200, steve
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Dumbkiwi wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>>> Microsoft = monopoly
>>>
>>> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>>
>>It's sad isn't it?
>>
>>Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
>>monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
>>democracy or "innovation".
>>
>>Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.

>
> bullcrap
> The real agenda behind the open source movement is world wide
> communism


If that is true, then communism means empowering EVERYONE and providing
loads of CHOICE.

> communism and freedon are mutually exclusive


It would appear you are exactly and completely wrong when it comes to
comparing open source's incredible range of choice and diversity with
Microsoft's monopoly.

You certainly can't be accused of clear thinking on this one.


 
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Peter
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Posts: n/a
 
      08-16-2005
steve wrote:
> Dumbkiwi wrote:
>> Hmmm - Linux = free market/competition
>> Microsoft = monopoly
>> Now which of those is the antithesis of market economics?

>
> It's sad isn't it?
> Guys like FreedomChooser always seem to back the un-democratic or
> monopolistic incumbent.....and declare they are backing freedom and
> democracy or "innovation".
>
> Orwell had these guys pegged: Slavery is Freedom in their world.


Yes - it sounds like an emotional justification on their part.
Objectively, OSS is all about individual freedoms and a free market
environment, while the Microsoft approach is to use monopoly powers to deny
individual freedom and create a single central control of the software
industry. In this way, the Microsoft approach is very similar to the old
central control regimes of communist, monarchy and religious states.

Those claims that OSS is in some way communist are without any substance. I
haven't seen any rational logic supporting that view - just vague slander
and ad hominem attacks, which only illustrates the lack of substance to
such views.

However, you have to recognise that freedom of choice is a scary prospect to
some people. Some find comfort in a nanny state with everything prescribed
and where individuals don't have to think for themselves. Sort of like a
security blanket.


Peter

 
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