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Employment agencies not putting you forward

 
 
Collector»NZ
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
thing2 wrote:
> Mark Remfrey wrote:
>
>> thing2 wrote:
>>
>>> Question,
>>>
>>> If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say
>>> the client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the
>>> client says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not
>>> essential....should you feel obliged not to put yourself forward
>>> directly to the client?
>>>
>>> I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency
>>> demanding a fee if no moral one.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?

>>
>>
>>
>> You can get into nasty messes with prospective employers and the
>> agencies heading down that track. You don't want to be the meat in
>> that sandwich, as the employer will more than likely go off you very
>> quickly.
>>
>> Saying that, if you approach it the right way, a prospective employer
>> can be entertained in such a way that you keep both sides happy. If
>> you can sell yourself in direct to the employer, but fully divulging
>> your relationship with the agency, this can be seen as a positive. I
>> have employed people who have done this the right way, and still paid
>> the agency fee based on the qualities of the candidate.
>>
>> The "nice to have Suse.." comment intimates that anyone who has Suse
>> experience will get first look in. You'll have to do a great
>> self-sell job to prove why you are better. It does work some times.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark Remfrey

>
>
> Enterprise level Suse admins are probably not that common in Wellington
> / NZ. Redhat is probably far more common.
>
> I'm kinda thinking along the lines of keeping an eye open for an
> independant advert, and if that happens put myself forward. I think I
> will also mention that the agency did not put me forward and why dispite
> the job description, then it is up to the employer whether they
> interview me or not.
>
> This is not the first time either myself or other friends have come
> across the agencies not putting us forward. Yet actually getting
> employed via a different agency and the employer being happy with our
> skill set.
>
> regards
>


You are talking about pond scum here, agencies are the worst thing ahead of
even politicians and second hand car dealers.

Any chance you have to go around them do so, it will always be better for you.




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Chris Wilkinson
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
Hi there,

thing2 wrote:
> Question,
>
> If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
> client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
> says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
> feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?


I would contact the client directly. There is nothing in SuSE that
an experienced sysadmin would not be able to pick up in like 30 or
so seconds...download an ISO and try SuSE for yourself to familiarise
yourself with YaST etc...

> I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
> fee if no moral one.


Yes thats possible. I've worked for a few agencies, and they have
all made a point of strongly re-iterating over and over how much
trouble I would get in if I solicited myself to a client without
going thru the agency first.

Consequently I dislike the way many agencies work. I believe agents
with good knowledge of client requirements are few and far between.

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
Anyone wishing to email me directly can remove the obvious
spamblocker, and replace it with t p g <dot> c o m <dot> a u

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Chris Wilkinson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>There is nothing in SuSE that
>an experienced sysadmin would not be able to pick up in like 30 or
>so seconds...


I would watch out for the SuSEconfig scripts in /sbin/conf.d. You may
make a change to a standard configuration file, then wonder why/how the
system manages to override it.
 
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ofn01
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
thing2 wrote:
> Question,
>
> If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
> client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
> says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
> feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?
>
> I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
> fee if no moral one.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> regards
>
> Thing
>


That would be a bad, bad idea.
Employment agencies want to put forward as many good candidates as they
can to maximise the chance of securing the candidate a role and
therefore getting their commission.

If they are not willing to put you forward then chances are that the
advert is designed to catch as many people as possible, but the reality
of the role is that the employer has made very strict demands to the
agency about the exact type of people they want to see.

Or possibly the agency didn't think you would be a good match (maybe you
came across a bit too over-confident about your skills/experience? I
know for a fact that agencies have problems with arrogant candidates and
try to avoid putting them forward to employers as it is embaressing)
 
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ofn01
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
Collector»NZ wrote:
> thing2 wrote:
>
>> Mark Remfrey wrote:
>>
>>> thing2 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Question,
>>>>
>>>> If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say
>>>> the client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the
>>>> client says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not
>>>> essential....should you feel obliged not to put yourself forward
>>>> directly to the client?
>>>>
>>>> I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency
>>>> demanding a fee if no moral one.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You can get into nasty messes with prospective employers and the
>>> agencies heading down that track. You don't want to be the meat in
>>> that sandwich, as the employer will more than likely go off you very
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> Saying that, if you approach it the right way, a prospective employer
>>> can be entertained in such a way that you keep both sides happy. If
>>> you can sell yourself in direct to the employer, but fully divulging
>>> your relationship with the agency, this can be seen as a positive. I
>>> have employed people who have done this the right way, and still paid
>>> the agency fee based on the qualities of the candidate.
>>>
>>> The "nice to have Suse.." comment intimates that anyone who has Suse
>>> experience will get first look in. You'll have to do a great
>>> self-sell job to prove why you are better. It does work some times.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mark Remfrey

>>
>>
>>
>> Enterprise level Suse admins are probably not that common in
>> Wellington / NZ. Redhat is probably far more common.
>>
>> I'm kinda thinking along the lines of keeping an eye open for an
>> independant advert, and if that happens put myself forward. I think I
>> will also mention that the agency did not put me forward and why
>> dispite the job description, then it is up to the employer whether
>> they interview me or not.
>>
>> This is not the first time either myself or other friends have come
>> across the agencies not putting us forward. Yet actually getting
>> employed via a different agency and the employer being happy with our
>> skill set.
>>
>> regards
>>

>
> You are talking about pond scum here, agencies are the worst thing ahead
> of even politicians and second hand car dealers.
>
> Any chance you have to go around them do so, it will always be better
> for you.
>


I am no fan of recruitment agencies, and I know it is worse in I.T.
because they don't know SFA about IT terminology etc. yet have to manage
the matching of skills to requirements which are often communicated
mainly with, IT Terminology.

However, the original poster only found out about the company through
the agency so really should go through them. Also as much as employers
usually hate agencies (As they're always ringing up to try and see if
they can place people), they also use them as a buffer/filter so
contacting them directly could annoy them.

I think the original poster would be treading on thin ice to use the
information gained from the agency to then contact the employer directly.
 
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Bret
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:31:18 +1200, Collector»NZ
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Any chance you have to go around them do so, it will always be better for you.


Don't bother swerving, just run them over
 
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Tim
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-26-2005
If the agency did not reveal to you who the client was, then feel free to
apply directly.
If the agency did reveal to you who the client was then decided not to put
you forward then that is THEIR problem. You can always go to another agency
that may be listing the same Client. You do not have a contract with the
agency (unless you do already have a signed contract with the agency...).
The agencies internal policies should be to not reveal who the Client is
until they have committed to putting you forward at which point in time you
get the right to veto the application. If they do not do this then they are
breaching what should be their own internal client confidentiality policies.

If there is any backlash from the Client then explain that the agency did
not demonstrate sufficient knowledge of technology to know the difference
between OS versions and their similarities... carefully. I suggest you have
strong skills ready to demonstrate that the skills you have are relevant. "I
felt I was disadvantaged by their lack of knowledge of computer operating
systems - but thats not surprising as it is a highly technical field".

It is a tragedy that too often agencies and personnel depts. do not
understand the terminology, technology and skills needed in applicants for
positions. This leeds towards the eternally dumb approach of "Must have a
degree" (don't care what) and the resulting low match of actual skills
required with those hired. Perhaps it would be wise for all applications to
Agencies to start with the assumption that the agency does not understand
what they are asking for, does not understand subtle or major differences
between related products and so on and to be ready for this.

EG you apply for a job as a C programmer. Your CV mentions C++ all over the
place... You don't get the job as you don't meet requirements. What should
you have done to the CV before you submitted it to overcome this likely
event?

Whatever you do, when you post your application, do the following:
0. Make sure you KNOW what they want - what their requirements are.
1. Cover letter - make it short - 1 page. State clearly how YOU meet their
requirements etc.
2. CV highlight how YOU meet their requirements. Shrink sections that are
totally irrelevant. Detail sections that have 100% skills requirements
matches. Don't omit anything in history to leave holes - detail back to high
school.

IE always customise your CV to highlight the relevant bits and reduce the
irrelevant bits.

A short CV (3-4 pages) that highlights how your experience meets their
requirements is exceedingly better than a 20 page CV that leaves it up to
them to ferret out the occasional single line that might have them make an
educated guess (if they are educated enough) to see if it is relevant to
their requirements.

When 100 applicants apply and you are reading the CV's the thing to do is to
highlight and rate each CV in terms of what is being sought for the
position.

BOL.





"thing2" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Question,
>
> If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
> client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
> says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
> feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?
>
> I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
> fee if no moral one.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> regards
>
> Thing
>



 
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Nelly
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-27-2005
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:42:12 +1200, "news.xtra.co.nz"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"H.O.G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:01:13 +1200, thing2 <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> spoke these fine words:
>>
>>>Question,
>>>
>>>If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
>>>client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
>>>says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
>>>feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?
>>>
>>>I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
>>>fee if no moral one.
>>>
>>>Thoughts?

>>
>> It is up to the agency to put forward the people *they* feel are most
>> suited to the job. In this case, it appears that this isn't you.
>>
>> Don't approach the employer directly. All that will result from that
>> is that the agency will put you at the bottom of the list for any
>> future jobs.
>>
>> Agencies do more than just put people forward. The employer has asked
>> the agency to vet applicants, and will most likely not be interested
>> in your advances, unless you did an exceptional job of selling
>> yourself.

>
>You give too much credit to the agencies.... But they do stupid things.
>
>One time I negotiated a contract rate verbally - then, they sent me the
>contract with a higher rate than negotiated and with double rate overtime
>allowances (also not negotiated).
>

So which did you end up with the verbal rate written one?


Nelly.
If you see someone without a smile, give them one of yours
 
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Nelly
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-27-2005
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:45:59 +1200, Nelly
<(E-Mail Removed) > wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:42:12 +1200, "news.xtra.co.nz"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"H.O.G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:01:13 +1200, thing2 <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> spoke these fine words:
>>>
>>>>Question,
>>>>
>>>>If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
>>>>client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
>>>>says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
>>>>feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?
>>>>
>>>>I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
>>>>fee if no moral one.
>>>>
>>>>Thoughts?
>>>
>>> It is up to the agency to put forward the people *they* feel are most
>>> suited to the job. In this case, it appears that this isn't you.
>>>
>>> Don't approach the employer directly. All that will result from that
>>> is that the agency will put you at the bottom of the list for any
>>> future jobs.
>>>
>>> Agencies do more than just put people forward. The employer has asked
>>> the agency to vet applicants, and will most likely not be interested
>>> in your advances, unless you did an exceptional job of selling
>>> yourself.

>>
>>You give too much credit to the agencies.... But they do stupid things.
>>
>>One time I negotiated a contract rate verbally - then, they sent me the
>>contract with a higher rate than negotiated and with double rate overtime
>>allowances (also not negotiated).
>>

>So which did you end up with the verbal rate written one?
>
>

Sorry that should "So which did you end up with the verbal rate or
written one?".


Nelly.
If you see someone without a smile, give them one of yours
 
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news.xtra.co.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-27-2005

"Nelly" <(E-Mail Removed) > wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:42:12 +1200, "news.xtra.co.nz"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"H.O.G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:01:13 +1200, thing2 <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>> spoke these fine words:
>>>
>>>>Question,
>>>>
>>>>If an agency declines to put you forward for a job because they say the
>>>>client wants Suse linux, yet the job description supplied by the client
>>>>says must have Linux, nice to have Suse but not essential....should you
>>>>feel obliged not to put yourself forward directly to the client?
>>>>
>>>>I guess there might be a legal issue / chase from the agency demanding a
>>>>fee if no moral one.
>>>>
>>>>Thoughts?
>>>
>>> It is up to the agency to put forward the people *they* feel are most
>>> suited to the job. In this case, it appears that this isn't you.
>>>
>>> Don't approach the employer directly. All that will result from that
>>> is that the agency will put you at the bottom of the list for any
>>> future jobs.
>>>
>>> Agencies do more than just put people forward. The employer has asked
>>> the agency to vet applicants, and will most likely not be interested
>>> in your advances, unless you did an exceptional job of selling
>>> yourself.

>>
>>You give too much credit to the agencies.... But they do stupid things.
>>
>>One time I negotiated a contract rate verbally - then, they sent me the
>>contract with a higher rate than negotiated and with double rate overtime
>>allowances (also not negotiated).
>>

> So which did you end up with the verbal rate written one?
>
>
> Nelly.
> If you see someone without a smile, give them one of yours


I ended up with the higher rates and conditions as per the written contract.


 
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