«

Now, you know what hacks me off about this place. Well, actually, it
doesn’t hack me off. More kinda makes me laugh. And that is the total
hypocrisy about microsoft versus Linux. Marketing methods used by
either. And the bull **** bollicks than some spout on here.

I wonder how many people who use these boards have, shall we say, not
quiet legal software sitting on their desk. How many, (looks around)
have software that is borrowed or copied. Yet spout on about less than
scrupulous methods used by whoever. Who else is not playing by the
rules around here hmmmmmm ?

People use linux, eg open source, and freeware, in spite of requests for
donation to fund further development of "open Source" software still
happily use software but will not make a contribution to the producer of
that software. They still want it for free huh. And bugger the kid
that put the time and effort into writing the software.

How many people knock Microsoft and their marketing methods in pushing
their products. And tell me, just what is the difference between
Microsoft giving away software, or sponsoring up and coming students and
the mad butcher pushing his snags on behalf of the warriors. Or
MacDonalds giving money to star ship. Giving bags of sausages to fund
raisers for free. Its marketing. Its about getting your name out there
in the community. Its about social and corporate, however transparent
such motives may be, responsibility. Its about profits. The bottom
line if you will. Giving something back. Bringing on the next
generation etc. Just slightly different scales thats all. Its business.

Granted many will disagree with ms's methods but hell. Theyve worked so
far. And ms need to change to keep up their market share or linux needs
to do something.

And let's face it. The only ones that are bellyaching about ms and
linux are those that have the time to sit around sniffing their farts
while the rest of the world moves on.

So, I guess what Im trying to say here is look to your own scruples when
it comes to software. theft of music, theft of copy write Illegal,
borrowed, freely obtained legally yet pay for it ? Not bloody likely. I
know many people that have acquired software and entertainment on their
computers. Including bloody Microsoft techs.

Linux and ms software do one thing. Manipulate, number crunch and
entertain. Whether that's ms or linux is of no matter. If people want
ms, they will ask for it. If people want linux, they will ask for it.
For me, having used both ms and linux, linux if for the motorist that is
interested in cars, drives his own car and services his own car.
Microsoft is for the idiot user that thinks the cd roms drawer is
somewhere to put the coffee mug. Few car drivers service their own
cars. These people go with Ms. Cause ms, relatively speaking, is idiot
proof. Nowadays at least.

The computer enthusiast, those with a passion for computers will
probably go for linux. Just to be different in many cases. And besides,
many people love to bitch.

So, the point of this ? Stop yer bloody winging and get a life away
from computers if all you can do is bellyache about em. Those that
choose Linux, let em play. Those that choose ms let em play. Ms is for
people that use computers. They just want the thing to work. Linux,
until it becomes more idiot proof (those that have used suse 9.1 will
know what I mean) will go for ms cause they just want a friggin computer
that works.

Oh I got more to say, but right now I’ve run outa time. And people ?
Don’t get nasty. Cause I can too. But I wont.

Whew. I feel better now.

Toodles.

Trog wrote:
> Now, you know what hacks me off about this place. Well, actually, it
> doesn’t hack me off. More kinda makes me laugh. And that is the total
> hypocrisy about microsoft versus Linux. Marketing methods used by
> either. And the bull **** bollicks than some spout on here.
>
> I wonder how many people who use these boards have, shall we say, not
> quiet legal software sitting on their desk. How many, (looks around)
> have software that is borrowed or copied. Yet spout on about less than
> scrupulous methods used by whoever. Who else is not playing by the
> rules around here hmmmmmm ?
>
> People use linux, eg open source, and freeware, in spite of requests for
> donation to fund further development of "open Source" software still
> happily use software but will not make a contribution to the producer of
> that software. They still want it for free huh. And bugger the kid
> that put the time and effort into writing the software.
>
> How many people knock Microsoft and their marketing methods in pushing
> their products. And tell me, just what is the difference between
> Microsoft giving away software, or sponsoring up and coming students and
> the mad butcher pushing his snags on behalf of the warriors. Or
> MacDonalds giving money to star ship. Giving bags of sausages to fund
> raisers for free. Its marketing. Its about getting your name out there
> in the community. Its about social and corporate, however transparent
> such motives may be, responsibility. Its about profits. The bottom
> line if you will. Giving something back. Bringing on the next
> generation etc. Just slightly different scales thats all. Its business.
>
> Granted many will disagree with ms's methods but hell. Theyve worked so
> far. And ms need to change to keep up their market share or linux needs
> to do something.
>
> And let's face it. The only ones that are bellyaching about ms and
> linux are those that have the time to sit around sniffing their farts
> while the rest of the world moves on.
>
> So, I guess what Im trying to say here is look to your own scruples when
> it comes to software. theft of music, theft of copy write Illegal,
> borrowed, freely obtained legally yet pay for it ? Not bloody likely. I
> know many people that have acquired software and entertainment on their
> computers. Including bloody Microsoft techs.
>
> Linux and ms software do one thing. Manipulate, number crunch and
> entertain. Whether that's ms or linux is of no matter. If people want
> ms, they will ask for it. If people want linux, they will ask for it.
> For me, having used both ms and linux, linux if for the motorist that is
> interested in cars, drives his own car and services his own car.
> Microsoft is for the idiot user that thinks the cd roms drawer is
> somewhere to put the coffee mug. Few car drivers service their own
> cars. These people go with Ms. Cause ms, relatively speaking, is idiot
> proof. Nowadays at least.
>
> The computer enthusiast, those with a passion for computers will
> probably go for linux. Just to be different in many cases. And besides,
> many people love to bitch.
>
> So, the point of this ? Stop yer bloody winging and get a life away
> from computers if all you can do is bellyache about em. Those that
> choose Linux, let em play. Those that choose ms let em play. Ms is for
> people that use computers. They just want the thing to work. Linux,
> until it becomes more idiot proof (those that have used suse 9.1 will
> know what I mean) will go for ms cause they just want a friggin computer
> that works.
>
> Oh I got more to say, but right now I’ve run outa time. And people ?
> Don’t get nasty. Cause I can too. But I wont.
>
> Whew. I feel better now.
>
> Toodles.

Bravo

"Trog" <> wrote in message news:...
> Now, you know what hacks me off about this place. Well, actually, it
> doesn’t hack me off. More kinda makes me laugh. And that is the total
> hypocrisy about microsoft versus Linux. Marketing methods used by either.
> And the bull **** bollicks than some spout on here.

Hehe.....

Ill be in both camps soon..... Will be using Linux for "work" (browsing,
email etc) and Win XP for "play" (games).
Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

'nuff zed.

Trog wrote:

> I wonder how many people who use these boards have, shall we say, not
> quiet legal software sitting on their desk. How many, (looks around)
> have software that is borrowed or copied. Yet spout on about less than
> scrupulous methods used by whoever. Who else is not playing by the
> rules around here hmmmmmm ?

Heh. I had what I call a "shakedown" call from a Microsoft licensing
agency checking on whether I had an "SPLA" (Service Provider License
Agreement) to operate oneof my client accounts.

Actually, since the client concerned owns all their licenses and we just
operate their servers, no such agreement is needed. But it makes me
very very glad that I largely run Open Source software for the services
that I *DO* operate on a lease-basis.

"Trog" <> wrote in message news:...
[...]
> Microsoft is for the idiot user that thinks the cd roms drawer is
> somewhere to put the coffee mug. Few car drivers service their own cars.
> These people go with Ms. Cause ms, relatively speaking, is idiot proof.
> Nowadays at least.

You write "Ms is for people that use computers. They just want the thing to
work." OK, let me finish this for you... They just want the thing to work
~because~ they actually ~do~ have a life that is not computer centric.
Blindingly obvious to anyone whose life does not revolve around Linux.

What this means is that you really need to get a life away from Linux, you
mongol.

Tony.

The Black Wibble wrote:
> What this means is that you really need to get a life away from
> Linux, you mongol.

C'mon man, what did the Mongol's ever do to you?
--
~misfit~

XPD wrote:

>
> "Trog" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Now, you know what hacks me off about this place. Well, actually, it
>> doesn’t hack me off. More kinda makes me laugh. And that is the total
>> hypocrisy about microsoft versus Linux. Marketing methods used by
>> either. And the bull **** bollicks than some spout on here.
>
> Hehe.....
>
> Ill be in both camps soon..... Will be using Linux for "work" (browsing,
> email etc) and Win XP for "play" (games).
> Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
>
> 'nuff zed.

Indeed. Use the one that best suits your needs. For me that is (by far)
Linux.

(As a software developer I find developing (particularly web based) software
on Linux much easier. I can open a php file on the server using Quanta (an
editor) using the fish protocol (ssh for kde) and edit the file. I don't
have to download it, edit it, then upload it again. I just open it from
it's remote location, edit and save. Same with files on an FTP server).

I also develop on Windows too because some of the tools I use only run on
the platform (at the moment). And believe it or not some of my clients want
software that runs on Windows.

Allistar.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:04:41 +1200, Trog wrote:

> Now, you know what hacks me off about this place. Well, actually, it
> doesn¢t hack me off. More kinda makes me laugh. And that is the total
> hypocrisy about microsoft versus Linux. Marketing methods used by
> either. And the bull **** bollicks than some spout on here.

Oh dear... We are in for another less than insightful diatribe...

> People use linux, eg open source, and freeware, in spite of requests for
> donation to fund further development of "open Source" software still
> happily use software but will not make a contribution to the producer of
> that software. They still want it for free huh. And bugger the kid
> that put the time and effort into writing the software.

Ok, you clearly do not understand the system. A few quick tips for you:

1. Contribution is not expected from the majority.
2. Effort is not provided for reward. If it was it'd be called "commercial
software". You may have heard of that...
3. It is _software_. This means that THE major costs in reproduction is
ZERO. Leaving only the cost in development to recover - and this is shared
between a few dozen contributors, and they bare it for free. Because that's
what nice people do. It's a whole area of biology research.

> How many people knock Microsoft and their marketing methods in pushing
> their products. And tell me, just what is the difference between
> Microsoft giving away software, or sponsoring up and coming students and
> the mad butcher pushing his snags on behalf of the warriors.

Nothing. Both are insincere, MS much more so. "Cynical manipulation" comes
to mind, such as practised by psychopath's upon their targets.

>Or
> MacDonalds giving money to star ship. Giving bags of sausages to fund
> raisers for free.

Cynical manipulation as well. If they were sincere, they'd donate the money
and ensure there was no publicity about it.

That they do not betrays obvious manipulation. It happens so often though,
you are de-sensitised to it.

>Its marketing.

It's manipulation, it's bribery. It's more akin to a drug pusher giving out
free samples than to alturism.

>Its about getting your name out there
> in the community. Its about social and corporate, however transparent
> such motives may be, responsibility. Its about profits. The bottom
> line if you will.

It's about convincing the people you are not the monster you soo clearly
ARE.

>Giving something back. Bringing on the next
> generation etc. Just slightly different scales thats all.

lol, I hope they are paying you for this. Goering would be proud.

>Its business.

It's corruption.

> Granted many will disagree with ms's methods but hell. Theyve worked so
> far.

Well, hell, sending millions off to gas chambers and hoarding their gold
fillings worked well too.

Guess you mean that as long as it works, it's ok.

>And ms need to change to keep up their market share or linux needs
> to do something.

Linux need do nothing.

Why ?

Because people are genetically programmed to be social. To co-operate. And
Open Source is a better way for doing this.

And who are YOU to argue with 600 million years of evolution - evolution
that has seen communal organism's dominate the planet ?

Commercial competition is the Shark of economics: mean, lethal, ...
endangered. Entirely dependant on a system of artifical support.

> And let's face it. The only ones that are bellyaching about ms and
> linux are those that have the time to sit around sniffing their farts
> while the rest of the world moves on.

Oh, the conceits of the ignorant... Truly, pearls before swine...

> So, I guess what Im trying to say here is look to your own scruples when
> it comes to software. theft of music, theft of copy write Illegal,
> borrowed, freely obtained legally yet pay for it ? Not bloody likely. I
> know many people that have acquired software and entertainment on their
> computers. Including bloody Microsoft techs.

That is a different debate. The idea of Intellectual Property law was
poorly conceived and frought with under the table payouts when it was first
mooted.

Now, it's an entire ecology of artificial supports for decrepit business
models. You, as a tax payer, PAY to make MS profitable.

Without you, muggins, they would have to compete on merit rather than
politics.

> Linux and ms software do one thing. Manipulate, number crunch and
> entertain. Whether that's ms or linux is of no matter. If people want
> ms, they will ask for it. If people want linux, they will ask for it.
> For me, having used both ms and linux, linux if for the motorist that is
> interested in cars, drives his own car and services his own car.
> Microsoft is for the idiot user that thinks the cd roms drawer is
> somewhere to put the coffee mug. Few car drivers service their own
> cars. These people go with Ms. Cause ms, relatively speaking, is idiot
> proof. Nowadays at least.

That's a popular misconception.

People around here charge $80 an hour to fix there Windows PC's. They get
it. And they do 40 hours a week.

Lots of people are not finding windows easy to use.

> So, the point of this ? Stop yer bloody winging and get a life away
> from computers if all you can do is bellyache about em.

Ahh, what a let down. After all the blather, comical misconceptions,
ludicrously shallow insights... We are left with "the point of this" (in
truly Pythonesq tones):

You all such. Get a life.

I kid you not. That is what he actually means. And you thought sad git's
like that were out of fashion ?

> know what I mean) will go for ms cause they just want a friggin computer
> that works.

Look at the difference in uptimes between the two one day, Einstein.

> Oh I got more to say, but right now I¢ve run outa time. And people ?
> Don¢t get nasty. Cause I can too. But I wont.

Yeah ok. But you already did to misfit.

--

.... Brendan

#25464 +(643- [X]

<kow`> "There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand
binary and those who don't."
<SpaceRain> That's only 2 types of people, kow.
<SpaceRain> STUPID


Note: All my comments are copyright 15/07/2005 1:10:44 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

Brendan wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 11:04:41 +1200, Trog wrote:

>>know what I mean) will go for ms cause they just want a friggin computer
>>that works.
>
>
> Look at the difference in uptimes between the two one day, Einstein.

What does uptime have to do with the computer 'working' in the sense he
means it? Buy a game off the shelf, what are the odds that when you go
to install it on Linux that it will 'just work'?

I use Windows because I don't want my computer use to be a chore.


To address another of your points, Linux does need to do something.
While people may be social, companies are not. There are few if any
economic reasons to provide Linux support for consumer hardware, until
there is I don't see Linux becoming widely adopted because of the simple
difficulty of getting it running. Compared of course with the
difficulty of finding appropriate windows drivers.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:58:57 +1200, Allistar <> spoke these
fine words:

>(As a software developer I find developing (particularly web based) software
>on Linux much easier. I can open a php file on the server using Quanta (an
>editor) using the fish protocol (ssh for kde) and edit the file. I don't
>have to download it, edit it, then upload it again. I just open it from
>it's remote location, edit and save. Same with files on an FTP server).

I hope you're not implying that you make changes directly on your
production server?