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Microsoft: Following the money

 
 
shannon
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
FreedomChooser wrote:

> hahaha
> What a joke
> The only thing we have less of is the size our economy
> Every opportunity for vote buying exists the same as other countries
>


No, there is no individual funding of New Zealand MPs campaigns by
donations from business.
Limited party donations are allowed.
Campaign spending is strictly limited, and MPs are far more financially
accountable.
The bribery that is considered normal in the US would be exposed as
scandalously unfair in any Westminster parliamentary democracy,
including ours.
 
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thing
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
Rob J wrote:
> In article <42c4750d$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Fri, 01 Jul
> 2005 10:40:07 +1200, Roger_Nickel <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>
>>For those who may have missed the Slashdot story:-

>
>
> Slashdot doesn't post stories. They post opinions.


No they dont.

This is stuff from The Washington Post....

Slashdot is a portal/blog, it merely collects info and lets you go read
the actual article, its not journalism as such.

regards

Thing
 
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thing
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
Rob J wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
> 09:32:57 +1200, thing <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>
>>Roger_Nickel wrote:
>>
>>>For those who may have missed the Slashdot story:-
>>>
>>>http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/38971/index.html
>>>
>>>"...Let's begin to make some sense of Microsoft's puzzling maze of
>>>influence. We'll only travel a short distance before seeing multiple
>>>paths on which we can travel. Regardless of the path we take, Microsoft
>>>has paved it with money...."

>>
>>
>>MS has long been regarded as having one of the biggest and best lobbying
>> setups in DC. It is interesting when we start to see such public
>>documents unfolding before us, just how far the corruption may have gone...
>>
>>For that is what it is, corruption....
>>
>>Of course we should als ask about "Hollywood" and other big areas of
>>American business such as defence contracts.
>>
>>The fact that the pentegon wants to shut a huge amount of un-needed US
>>military bases, but that would effect many comgressmen's voters...
>>
>>So it is just bribary....
>>
>>It is beginning to look like a very sick society...

>
>
> But of course this kind of "sick society" happens to be political reality
> around the world. This kind of politics is seen right here in New
> Zealand.


um.....no, I would class most if not all of our politicians far less
corrupt when it comes to back handers, election helpers and wheeling and
dealing. In this respact we follow the UK/Europe rather than the USA.

> So what really is your point?


I was following the thread, so what is yours? if you dont like my posts
dont read them.

Dont bother with negative comments, different points of view are fine
but provide URLS justifying them.

regards

Thing













 
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thing
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
FreedomChooser wrote:

8><--------

>
> hahaha
> What a joke
> The only thing we have less of is the size our economy
> Every opportunity for vote buying exists the same as other countries
>


I would storngly disagree, there is little if any evidence or underlying
articles to justify we are any where near as bad as the USA.

regards

Thing
 
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Rob J
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
In article <42c5c8ac$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
10:50:20 +1200, shannon <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> Rob J wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
> > 09:32:57 +1200, thing <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> >
> >>Roger_Nickel wrote:
> >>
> >>>For those who may have missed the Slashdot story:-
> >>>
> >>>http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/38971/index.html
> >>>
> >>>"...Let's begin to make some sense of Microsoft's puzzling maze of
> >>>influence. We'll only travel a short distance before seeing multiple
> >>>paths on which we can travel. Regardless of the path we take, Microsoft
> >>>has paved it with money...."
> >>
> >>
> >>MS has long been regarded as having one of the biggest and best lobbying
> >> setups in DC. It is interesting when we start to see such public
> >>documents unfolding before us, just how far the corruption may have gone...
> >>
> >>For that is what it is, corruption....
> >>
> >>Of course we should als ask about "Hollywood" and other big areas of
> >>American business such as defence contracts.
> >>
> >>The fact that the pentegon wants to shut a huge amount of un-needed US
> >>military bases, but that would effect many comgressmen's voters...
> >>
> >>So it is just bribary....
> >>
> >>It is beginning to look like a very sick society...

> >
> >
> > But of course this kind of "sick society" happens to be political reality
> > around the world. This kind of politics is seen right here in New
> > Zealand.

>
> No its not.
> We don't have the same vote buying possibiities open to our politicians.


NZ doesn't have the same level of military. It doesn't have this industry
or that industry. But it still has ample opportunities for politicians to
buy votes.
 
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Rob J
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
In article <42c5e17a$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
12:36:10 +1200, shannon <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> FreedomChooser wrote:
>
> > hahaha
> > What a joke
> > The only thing we have less of is the size our economy
> > Every opportunity for vote buying exists the same as other countries
> >

>
> No, there is no individual funding of New Zealand MPs campaigns by
> donations from business.
> Limited party donations are allowed.
> Campaign spending is strictly limited, and MPs are far more financially
> accountable.
> The bribery that is considered normal in the US would be exposed as
> scandalously unfair in any Westminster parliamentary democracy,
> including ours.


MPs aren't that financially accountable. Don't kid yourself. Anytime MPs
behaviour is put under scrutiny, they bloc vote against it. Remember the
tax changes that MPs were supposed to be getting a year or two back, and
changes to the Remuneration Authority? Never happened, did it. It was
blocked across all the parties.

As for campaign spending - the real agenda behind state campaign funding
is that the socialists are so useless at fundraising that they have to
get money from the government, and make sure no one else can get more
money than them.

 
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Mercury
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
The OP made reference to Voters (MS as a conceptual Voter) BUYING
politicians.
Huge difference.

No politician here can afford to buy votes. Instead you get the likes of
Winston Peters doing his heads up campaigns only prior to each election so
he singular can continue on in whatever it is he thinks he is doing. He is
using the system as it is designed.

Politicians here find it more cost effective to flap their jaws and spout
forth drivel (Devine - a new job for you) than to spend their own hard
earned cash on buying votes. The big stinks usually come in pre-election
when Tax Drops, or promises of, may occur - to buy votes.

In the US the sidling of Companies up to politicians is a manifestation of
the huge ineffectiveness of their so called Democracy. Companies (and
religions, industries, SIG's etc.) buy politicians to push their agenda and
in return expect legislation / favours in the curry that comes out.

The strongest indication of the degree of corruption has been the GWB /
Haliburton / Pay Backs that George in his wisdom announced to all on TV he
was going to Pay Back to those that Helped him get elected. Haliburton may
not be Georges baby, but the rest of the mess sure is.

The religions purchased George, George Backed the religions and gave them
Anti Gay, Anti abortion and Pro War stance. Is that corrupt?

As far as the MS issue is concerned I have no opinion. Considering the
magnitude of Government, Business, and Greed that exists in the US,
everything sited in the articles referred to are at the lower end of trivia.



"Rob J" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) z...
> In article <42c5c8ac$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
> 10:50:20 +1200, shannon <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>> Rob J wrote:
>> > In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
>> > 09:32:57 +1200, thing <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>> >
>> >>Roger_Nickel wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>For those who may have missed the Slashdot story:-
>> >>>
>> >>>http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/38971/index.html
>> >>>
>> >>>"...Let's begin to make some sense of Microsoft's puzzling maze of
>> >>>influence. We'll only travel a short distance before seeing multiple
>> >>>paths on which we can travel. Regardless of the path we take,
>> >>>Microsoft
>> >>>has paved it with money...."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>MS has long been regarded as having one of the biggest and best
>> >>lobbying
>> >> setups in DC. It is interesting when we start to see such public
>> >>documents unfolding before us, just how far the corruption may have
>> >>gone...
>> >>
>> >>For that is what it is, corruption....
>> >>
>> >>Of course we should als ask about "Hollywood" and other big areas of
>> >>American business such as defence contracts.
>> >>
>> >>The fact that the pentegon wants to shut a huge amount of un-needed US
>> >>military bases, but that would effect many comgressmen's voters...
>> >>
>> >>So it is just bribary....
>> >>
>> >>It is beginning to look like a very sick society...
>> >
>> >
>> > But of course this kind of "sick society" happens to be political
>> > reality
>> > around the world. This kind of politics is seen right here in New
>> > Zealand.

>>
>> No its not.
>> We don't have the same vote buying possibiities open to our politicians.

>
> NZ doesn't have the same level of military. It doesn't have this industry
> or that industry. But it still has ample opportunities for politicians to
> buy votes.



 
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Ian H
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-02-2005
Rob J wrote:
> In article <42c5e17a$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
> 12:36:10 +1200, shannon <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>
>>FreedomChooser wrote:
>>
>>
>>>hahaha
>>>What a joke
>>>The only thing we have less of is the size our economy
>>>Every opportunity for vote buying exists the same as other countries
>>>

>>
>>No, there is no individual funding of New Zealand MPs campaigns by
>>donations from business.
>>Limited party donations are allowed.
>>Campaign spending is strictly limited, and MPs are far more financially
>>accountable.
>>The bribery that is considered normal in the US would be exposed as
>>scandalously unfair in any Westminster parliamentary democracy,
>>including ours.

>
>
> MPs aren't that financially accountable. Don't kid yourself. Anytime MPs
> behaviour is put under scrutiny, they bloc vote against it. Remember the
> tax changes that MPs were supposed to be getting a year or two back, and
> changes to the Remuneration Authority? Never happened, did it. It was
> blocked across all the parties.
>
> As for campaign spending - the real agenda behind state campaign funding
> is that the socialists are so useless at fundraising that they have to
> get money from the government, and make sure no one else can get more
> money than them.


The biggest difference between the US and here is that campaign spending
by individual MPs makes bugger all difference to the outcome here. That
is why our politicas is so much cleaner. And the reason is that our
elections present the electorate with a meaningful choice whereas
elections in the US are a fairly meaningless process. As democracies go,
the US has the `lite' version while our democracy is full strength.

In NZ elections are a process for choosing governments. In the US
elections simply don't carry that greater meaning. Consequently each
vote there is purely a choice between two individual candidates who are
usually about as similar as Pepsi and Coke. That is why advertising
plays such a big role in US politics. Advertising is most powerful as a
tool for creating points of difference where none really exist.
 
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FreedomChooser
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2005
On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:05:35 +1200, thing <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Rob J wrote:
>> In article <42c4750d$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Fri, 01 Jul
>> 2005 10:40:07 +1200, Roger_Nickel <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>>
>>>For those who may have missed the Slashdot story:-

>>
>>
>> Slashdot doesn't post stories. They post opinions.

>
>No they dont.
>
>This is stuff from The Washington Post....
>
>Slashdot is a portal/blog, it merely collects info and lets you go read
>the actual article, its not journalism as such.


Helluva lot of what is on slashdot is readers posting in their
opinions being turned into articles

 
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FreedomChooser
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-03-2005
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:15:46 +1200, Ian H <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Rob J wrote:
>> In article <42c5e17a$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Sat, 02 Jul 2005
>> 12:36:10 +1200, shannon <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>>
>>>FreedomChooser wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>hahaha
>>>>What a joke
>>>>The only thing we have less of is the size our economy
>>>>Every opportunity for vote buying exists the same as other countries
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, there is no individual funding of New Zealand MPs campaigns by
>>>donations from business.
>>>Limited party donations are allowed.
>>>Campaign spending is strictly limited, and MPs are far more financially
>>>accountable.
>>>The bribery that is considered normal in the US would be exposed as
>>>scandalously unfair in any Westminster parliamentary democracy,
>>>including ours.

>>
>>
>> MPs aren't that financially accountable. Don't kid yourself. Anytime MPs
>> behaviour is put under scrutiny, they bloc vote against it. Remember the
>> tax changes that MPs were supposed to be getting a year or two back, and
>> changes to the Remuneration Authority? Never happened, did it. It was
>> blocked across all the parties.
>>
>> As for campaign spending - the real agenda behind state campaign funding
>> is that the socialists are so useless at fundraising that they have to
>> get money from the government, and make sure no one else can get more
>> money than them.

>
>The biggest difference between the US and here is that campaign spending
>by individual MPs makes bugger all difference to the outcome here. That
>is why our politicas is so much cleaner. And the reason is that our
>elections present the electorate with a meaningful choice whereas
>elections in the US are a fairly meaningless process. As democracies go,
>the US has the `lite' version while our democracy is full strength.


Bullshit
The US has a far more open system
Dont give me that "Bush stole the election" crap
The average citizen in the US has far more protection from the
government than our Westminister style cabinet would ever be prepared
to grudginly grant us

>In NZ elections are a process for choosing governments. In the US
>elections simply don't carry that greater meaning. Consequently each
>vote there is purely a choice between two individual candidates who are
>usually about as similar as Pepsi and Coke. That is why advertising
>plays such a big role in US politics. Advertising is most powerful as a
>tool for creating points of difference where none really exist.


If you believe this you must be a socialist or some other kinda commie
Just because the haed left isnt getting their tiny minority viewpoint
accepted by the majority of people. lol

Westminter style government is based on the idea that the people are
the servants of the goverment

US style government is based on the idea that the governments are the
servants of the people

The US government is at four levels compared to our one
Helluva lot more democracy there than we have

 
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