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An example of why Open Source just doesn't work

 
 
H.O.G
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005

Just one example of someone coming to realise that producing stuff for
free doesn't put food on the table, and will be taken advantage of by
many others.

A bitter old man, realising too late that his life's work has amounted
to very little because he gave it away for free, and consequently does
not have a nest egg for his retirement.

I find it interesting that yet another fierce advocate of Open Source
talks about hoping that "someone with 6 figure$ to burn" would come
and commercialise his product.

A sad tale, that I'm sure others could learn from. (Although, of
course, most Linux users do not contribute, they just take a free ride
on the works of others, like this fellow).


From http://linuxrouter.org/ :

LRP == R.I.P. (1997-2002)
With great pain, I must now state:

The operating system that helped to create the embedded Linux
marketplace, the Linux Router Project (LRP), is dead.

As of January of this year I have finally accepted the fact I will
likely never be able to develop LRP into the operating system it could
have been. A full 6 months later I'm forcing myself to update this
page to reflect this. It is not an easy thing to give up on your
life's work.

I am also now semi-retired as a computer engineer. Aside from my
general disgust at the computing industry and what the Internet has
become, scrambling around for scrapes of work and praying for the next
good money project that eventually ends suddenly in a few months, just
isn't keeping food on the table. I've looked quite a bit for some
stable work, but plumbers make more hourly then Sys Admins in South
Florida. Either I move to California (never!) or move on. I am now
reserved to do the latter. With LRP remaining an unachievable goal I
don't even feel much desire to work with computers anymore.

My many contributions to the computing community has reaped very
little personal benefit for myself. As I now struggle to pay the bills
I can not help but feel quite ****ed off at the state of affairs, for
myself and the other authors who contributed massive amounts of time
and quality work, only to have it whored by companies not willing to
give back dime one to the people that actually created what it is they
sell. Acknowledgement and referral would have at least been
acceptable. Few companies do even that.

Care to tell me what Embeddix (for one) is based off of? Ever offer me
work Caldera? Even when I asked?

Well actually I'm glad they didn't as I would hate to think I could
have benefited those scumbags any further...but I think you, the
reader, gets the point I'm making.

Some companies did contribute directly to the project. However a few
thousand dollars or a few computers does not let a programmer eat next
month. As desperately as I have tried for the last 4 years I have been
unable to get any type of sustainable funding for LRP development or
steady work which would allow such. (It might have happened late in
2001, but after many 100 hour weeks of coding....that contract was
terminated and so were any hopes of dedicating future time to LRP
development.)

I actually have done more work on LRP 5.0 then anyone has seen. Yes
LRP *5.0*. LRP 4.0 was brought to an alpha stage January 2001 and I
was not happy with it. It was a gorgeous rehash of the same old Unix
****. Not acceptable to me. I began to explore some ideas I previously
had but thought were not realistic to pursue. They instead turned out
to be ideal.

This operating system had a good deal of specifications outlined for
it and some preliminary proof-of-concept coding done. To this day I am
only beginning to see very minor bits of what I had expected to have
in production the summer of 2001. You see, unlike the current pile of
Linux distributions which are based on ~20 year old obsolete
mechanisms, I was working on something that was from scratch. How
different would it have been?

* A new shell (no bash, no ash, no sh at all!)
* A new shell scripting language
* A new (universal) packaging scheme (would retrofit other OSes)
* A true application management system
* A new core process management system (No 'init' here...)

That's just a short list from memory, for the sake of making people
ill with longing. (YES, YES, Burn with desire! Muhahaha!) Even the
syntax for the scripting language was designed. The full architecture
for the packaging system was laid out. Oh yeah, and the base of this
OS would have all fit in ~8MB of space. The name of this operating
system and it's specifications, shall still remain UNRELEASED.

Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Wish it could. I'd like to
hope someone with 6 figure$ to burn wants this to happen, but I need
to grow up and move on instead of continuing to wait on the tooth
fairy to show up to help me persue my artistic dreams.

Oh Well...

My thanks go out to the few people that did help to make happen the
LRP that was released. Untrue to the opensource dogma, actually
finding people to contribute work to a project is a task in and of
itself.

My special thanks to Phil Hands and Paul Russell who helped make the
early days possible. I would have never learned to hate Bourne shell
at a guru's level without your help.

Paul Wouters, modmaker did more to help LRP proliferate then
anyone/thing else. I wish at the time I had realized it's true worth,
and encouraged you more with it.

Charles Wright, the only guy who ever really helped with any needed
coding of the LRP base.

Vesselin Atanasov, we made portslave into something quite nice.

My eternal disregard also goes out to those that thought they had
something to do with LRP but really did nothing for it but complain on
the mailing list, and to those that did do something with LRP and
never tried to collaborate with me to further the project.

 
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Matthew Poole
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:38:00 +1200, someone purporting to be H.O.G didst
scrawl:

>
> Just one example of someone coming to realise that producing stuff for
> free doesn't put food on the table, and will be taken advantage of by
> many others.
>

*SNIP*

OSS works just fine. However, if you're going to rely on being bought out
to give you financial security it's definitely not something to count on.

If OSS doesn't work, how is it that FreeBSD, and OSS OS that's been around
longer than nearly any other, is currently used for processing
transactions worth over a trillion (with a t) dollars a year? Or a
utility company in NZ is using MySQL for recording meter readings into a
database that currently has over a half-billion rows? That sure as hell
meets my definition of working.

--
Matthew Poole
"Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."

 
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Bling-Bling
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:38:00 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

> You see, unlike the current pile of
> Linux distributions which are based on ~20 year old obsolete
> mechanisms, I was working on something that was from scratch. How
> different would it have been?
>
> * A new shell (no bash, no ash, no sh at all!)
> * A new shell scripting language
> * A new (universal) packaging scheme (would retrofit other OSes)
> * A true application management system
> * A new core process management system (No 'init' here...)


Ah!

Someone trying to reinvent the wheel and then bitching about there being
so many wheels already around him.


Bling Bling

--
IBM: "Linux is not just another operating system. It represents a
collaboration of the best programmers in the industry coming together to
create an operating system that works on any hardware platform."

 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:38:00 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

>
> Just one example of someone coming to realise that producing stuff for
> free doesn't put food on the table, and will be taken advantage of by
> many others.
>
> A bitter old man, realising too late that his life's work has amounted
> to very little because he gave it away for free, and consequently does
> not have a nest egg for his retirement.
>
> I find it interesting that yet another fierce advocate of Open Source
> talks about hoping that "someone with 6 figure$ to burn" would come
> and commercialise his product.
>
> A sad tale, that I'm sure others could learn from. (Although, of
> course, most Linux users do not contribute, they just take a free ride
> on the works of others, like this fellow).
>
>
> From http://linuxrouter.org/ :
>
> LRP == R.I.P. (1997-2002)
> With great pain, I must now state:
>
> The operating system that helped to create the embedded Linux
> marketplace, the Linux Router Project (LRP), is dead.
>
> As of January of this year I have finally accepted the fact I will
> likely never be able to develop LRP into the operating system it could
> have been. A full 6 months later I'm forcing myself to update this
> page to reflect this. It is not an easy thing to give up on your
> life's work.
>
> I am also now semi-retired as a computer engineer. Aside from my
> general disgust at the computing industry and what the Internet has
> become, scrambling around for scrapes of work and praying for the next
> good money project that eventually ends suddenly in a few months, just
> isn't keeping food on the table. I've looked quite a bit for some
> stable work, but plumbers make more hourly then Sys Admins in South
> Florida. Either I move to California (never!) or move on. I am now
> reserved to do the latter. With LRP remaining an unachievable goal I
> don't even feel much desire to work with computers anymore.
>
> My many contributions to the computing community has reaped very
> little personal benefit for myself. As I now struggle to pay the bills
> I can not help but feel quite ****ed off at the state of affairs, for
> myself and the other authors who contributed massive amounts of time
> and quality work, only to have it whored by companies not willing to
> give back dime one to the people that actually created what it is they
> sell. Acknowledgement and referral would have at least been
> acceptable. Few companies do even that.
>
> Care to tell me what Embeddix (for one) is based off of? Ever offer me
> work Caldera? Even when I asked?
>
> Well actually I'm glad they didn't as I would hate to think I could
> have benefited those scumbags any further...but I think you, the
> reader, gets the point I'm making.
>
> Some companies did contribute directly to the project. However a few
> thousand dollars or a few computers does not let a programmer eat next
> month. As desperately as I have tried for the last 4 years I have been
> unable to get any type of sustainable funding for LRP development or
> steady work which would allow such. (It might have happened late in
> 2001, but after many 100 hour weeks of coding....that contract was
> terminated and so were any hopes of dedicating future time to LRP
> development.)
>
> I actually have done more work on LRP 5.0 then anyone has seen. Yes
> LRP *5.0*. LRP 4.0 was brought to an alpha stage January 2001 and I
> was not happy with it. It was a gorgeous rehash of the same old Unix
> ****. Not acceptable to me. I began to explore some ideas I previously
> had but thought were not realistic to pursue. They instead turned out
> to be ideal.
>
> This operating system had a good deal of specifications outlined for
> it and some preliminary proof-of-concept coding done. To this day I am
> only beginning to see very minor bits of what I had expected to have
> in production the summer of 2001. You see, unlike the current pile of
> Linux distributions which are based on ~20 year old obsolete
> mechanisms, I was working on something that was from scratch. How
> different would it have been?
>
> * A new shell (no bash, no ash, no sh at all!)
> * A new shell scripting language
> * A new (universal) packaging scheme (would retrofit other OSes)
> * A true application management system
> * A new core process management system (No 'init' here...)
>
> That's just a short list from memory, for the sake of making people
> ill with longing. (YES, YES, Burn with desire! Muhahaha!) Even the
> syntax for the scripting language was designed. The full architecture
> for the packaging system was laid out. Oh yeah, and the base of this
> OS would have all fit in ~8MB of space. The name of this operating
> system and it's specifications, shall still remain UNRELEASED.
>
> Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Wish it could. I'd like to
> hope someone with 6 figure$ to burn wants this to happen, but I need
> to grow up and move on instead of continuing to wait on the tooth
> fairy to show up to help me persue my artistic dreams.
>
> Oh Well...
>
> My thanks go out to the few people that did help to make happen the
> LRP that was released. Untrue to the opensource dogma, actually
> finding people to contribute work to a project is a task in and of
> itself.
>
> My special thanks to Phil Hands and Paul Russell who helped make the
> early days possible. I would have never learned to hate Bourne shell
> at a guru's level without your help.
>
> Paul Wouters, modmaker did more to help LRP proliferate then
> anyone/thing else. I wish at the time I had realized it's true worth,
> and encouraged you more with it.
>
> Charles Wright, the only guy who ever really helped with any needed
> coding of the LRP base.
>
> Vesselin Atanasov, we made portslave into something quite nice.
>
> My eternal disregard also goes out to those that thought they had
> something to do with LRP but really did nothing for it but complain on
> the mailing list, and to those that did do something with LRP and
> never tried to collaborate with me to further the project.


nice three year old link
his code _should_ have been protected by the GPL (I forget if thats what
he released it under) and the companies that stole his code _should_ have
been bound by the terms of that license
(as it is a license is only any good if your lawyer is big enough)
Ive used his stuff, its nice, and since the supposed *end* (last year as a
matter of fact)
troll rating: 4 out of ten
nice.. youre going to get some bites (have already)
but its 3 years old
and the OSS community is/has getting thier **** together with respect to
business models and protecting thier hard work from being swallowed up
inside closed source products


--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.

 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
I should learn to snip
:\

--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.

 
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shannon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
Shane wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:38:00 +1200, H.O.G wrote:
>
>
>>Just one example of someone coming to realise that producing stuff for
>>free doesn't put food on the table, and will be taken advantage of by
>>many others.
>>
>>A bitter old man, realising too late that his life's work has amounted
>>to very little because he gave it away for free, and consequently does
>>not have a nest egg for his retirement.
>>
>>I find it interesting that yet another fierce advocate of Open Source
>>talks about hoping that "someone with 6 figure$ to burn" would come
>>and commercialise his product.
>>
>>A sad tale, that I'm sure others could learn from. (Although, of
>>course, most Linux users do not contribute, they just take a free ride
>>on the works of others, like this fellow).
>>
>>
>>From http://linuxrouter.org/ :
>>
>>LRP == R.I.P. (1997-2002)
>>With great pain, I must now state:
>>
>>The operating system that helped to create the embedded Linux
>>marketplace, the Linux Router Project (LRP), is dead.
>>
>>As of January of this year I have finally accepted the fact I will
>>likely never be able to develop LRP into the operating system it could
>>have been. A full 6 months later I'm forcing myself to update this
>>page to reflect this. It is not an easy thing to give up on your
>>life's work.
>>
>>I am also now semi-retired as a computer engineer. Aside from my
>>general disgust at the computing industry and what the Internet has
>>become, scrambling around for scrapes of work and praying for the next
>>good money project that eventually ends suddenly in a few months, just
>>isn't keeping food on the table. I've looked quite a bit for some
>>stable work, but plumbers make more hourly then Sys Admins in South
>>Florida. Either I move to California (never!) or move on. I am now
>>reserved to do the latter. With LRP remaining an unachievable goal I
>>don't even feel much desire to work with computers anymore.
>>
>>My many contributions to the computing community has reaped very
>>little personal benefit for myself. As I now struggle to pay the bills
>>I can not help but feel quite ****ed off at the state of affairs, for
>>myself and the other authors who contributed massive amounts of time
>>and quality work, only to have it whored by companies not willing to
>>give back dime one to the people that actually created what it is they
>>sell. Acknowledgement and referral would have at least been
>>acceptable. Few companies do even that.
>>
>>Care to tell me what Embeddix (for one) is based off of? Ever offer me
>>work Caldera? Even when I asked?
>>
>>Well actually I'm glad they didn't as I would hate to think I could
>>have benefited those scumbags any further...but I think you, the
>>reader, gets the point I'm making.
>>
>>Some companies did contribute directly to the project. However a few
>>thousand dollars or a few computers does not let a programmer eat next
>>month. As desperately as I have tried for the last 4 years I have been
>>unable to get any type of sustainable funding for LRP development or
>>steady work which would allow such. (It might have happened late in
>>2001, but after many 100 hour weeks of coding....that contract was
>>terminated and so were any hopes of dedicating future time to LRP
>>development.)
>>
>>I actually have done more work on LRP 5.0 then anyone has seen. Yes
>>LRP *5.0*. LRP 4.0 was brought to an alpha stage January 2001 and I
>>was not happy with it. It was a gorgeous rehash of the same old Unix
>>****. Not acceptable to me. I began to explore some ideas I previously
>>had but thought were not realistic to pursue. They instead turned out
>>to be ideal.
>>
>>This operating system had a good deal of specifications outlined for
>>it and some preliminary proof-of-concept coding done. To this day I am
>>only beginning to see very minor bits of what I had expected to have
>>in production the summer of 2001. You see, unlike the current pile of
>>Linux distributions which are based on ~20 year old obsolete
>>mechanisms, I was working on something that was from scratch. How
>>different would it have been?
>>
>> * A new shell (no bash, no ash, no sh at all!)
>> * A new shell scripting language
>> * A new (universal) packaging scheme (would retrofit other OSes)
>> * A true application management system
>> * A new core process management system (No 'init' here...)
>>
>>That's just a short list from memory, for the sake of making people
>>ill with longing. (YES, YES, Burn with desire! Muhahaha!) Even the
>>syntax for the scripting language was designed. The full architecture
>>for the packaging system was laid out. Oh yeah, and the base of this
>>OS would have all fit in ~8MB of space. The name of this operating
>>system and it's specifications, shall still remain UNRELEASED.
>>
>>Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Wish it could. I'd like to
>>hope someone with 6 figure$ to burn wants this to happen, but I need
>>to grow up and move on instead of continuing to wait on the tooth
>>fairy to show up to help me persue my artistic dreams.
>>
>>Oh Well...
>>
>>My thanks go out to the few people that did help to make happen the
>>LRP that was released. Untrue to the opensource dogma, actually
>>finding people to contribute work to a project is a task in and of
>>itself.
>>
>>My special thanks to Phil Hands and Paul Russell who helped make the
>>early days possible. I would have never learned to hate Bourne shell
>>at a guru's level without your help.
>>
>>Paul Wouters, modmaker did more to help LRP proliferate then
>>anyone/thing else. I wish at the time I had realized it's true worth,
>>and encouraged you more with it.
>>
>>Charles Wright, the only guy who ever really helped with any needed
>>coding of the LRP base.
>>
>>Vesselin Atanasov, we made portslave into something quite nice.
>>
>>My eternal disregard also goes out to those that thought they had
>>something to do with LRP but really did nothing for it but complain on
>>the mailing list, and to those that did do something with LRP and
>>never tried to collaborate with me to further the project.

>
>
> nice three year old link
> his code _should_ have been protected by the GPL (I forget if thats what
> he released it under) and the companies that stole his code _should_ have
> been bound by the terms of that license
> (as it is a license is only any good if your lawyer is big enough)
> Ive used his stuff, its nice, and since the supposed *end* (last year as a
> matter of fact)
> troll rating: 4 out of ten
> nice.. youre going to get some bites (have already)
> but its 3 years old
> and the OSS community is/has getting thier **** together with respect to
> business models and protecting thier hard work from being swallowed up
> inside closed source products
>
>



LOL
LRP was a one floppy router derived from Debian binaries with kernel 2.0
The rest of the developers said goodbye to this guy and got on with LEAF
http://leaf.sourceforge.net/
A good example of how open source code continues to be useful despite
the departure of participants
 
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Judges1318
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005


H.O.G wrote:

>
> A bitter old man, realising too late that his life's work has amounted
> to very little because he gave it away for free, and consequently does
> not have a nest egg for his retirement.
>


>
> From http://linuxrouter.org/ :
>
> LRP == R.I.P. (1997-2002)
> With great pain, I must now state:
>
> The operating system that helped to create the embedded Linux
> marketplace, the Linux Router Project (LRP), is dead.
>


If he wanted it to be a commercial project, than he could
have kept it proprietary, developed it, packaged it, advertised
it, sold it and became a rich man.

If he wanted it to be OS, he could have founded a community of
developers (on the internet), and if he is fed up, someone
from the community could have picked up the management, and the
project lives on, and he goes onto something else (lucrative).

Why is OSS to blame for someone's bad business/personal decisions?


 
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shannon
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
H.O.G wrote:

<Wintroll *******s snipped>


>
>
> From http://linuxrouter.org/ :
>
> LRP == R.I.P. (1997-2002)
> With great pain, I must now state:
>
> The operating system that helped to create the embedded Linux
> marketplace, the Linux Router Project (LRP), is dead.
>


One branch that died, based on kernel 2.0

The rest survived as Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall, and still going
strong, with more modules than ever, incorporating shorewall and
supporting 2.4 and later kernels

http://leaf.sourceforge.net/
 
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Shane
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005

>
> LOL
> LRP was a one floppy router derived from Debian binaries with kernel 2.0
> The rest of the developers said goodbye to this guy and got on with LEAF
> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/
> A good example of how open source code continues to be useful despite
> the departure of participants


I never knew that
I liked LRP as an alternative to coyote (two floppys) and freesco (which
I didnt like purely because everyone else used it

--
Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.

 
Reply With Quote
 
thing
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      06-25-2005
H.O.G wrote:
> Just one example of someone coming to realise that producing stuff for
> free doesn't put food on the table, and will be taken advantage of by
> many others.
>
> A bitter old man,


Sounds like you woger

realising too late that his life's work has amounted
> to very little


oh yet again woger strikes....

> because he gave it away for free, and consequently does
> not have a nest egg for his retirement.
>
> I find it interesting that yet another fierce advocate of Open Source
> talks about hoping that "someone with 6 figure$ to burn" would come
> and commercialise his product.
>
> A sad tale, that I'm sure others could learn from. (Although, of
> course, most Linux users do not contribute, they just take a free ride
> on the works of others, like this fellow).
>


Woger you are a prat as usual. Admit it you are too stupid to use OSS.

1) Survival of the fittest, this is why OSS does work, there can be many
branches and this one died. Commercial companies die, eg like Digital or
Wang.....people will have lost jobs, savings and investors share value,
thats life.

2) I stand on the shoulders of others, and, in turn others will stand on
my shoulders, over time they will be the tallest in the land. MS et al
better get used to it.

3) Your statement high lights why you just like many others will never
understand OSS. This is why MS and the like cannot combat Linux and OSS
and cannot win. They are fighting an imaginary war in their heads, OSS
just does not care.

4) Someone once said to Donald Becker why did you release your
networking stuff for free, you could have charged for it? His reply was,
he did some networking stuff and in return he got a complete high
quality operating system, for no cost sounded like a fair trade to him.
ie a contract is not always shown to have a direct money component but
that does not necessarily mean there is no value.

get a life

Thing


 
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