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Flash hard drives: Samsumg

 
 
Tim
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      05-26-2005
Its already been announced. Two light versions are on their way. One is
intended to be a swap for Win98 for all those people that do not want to
ditch their still functioning hardware. The other is a bit more
comprehensive.

I think th earticle is over at bink.nu

- Tim

"-=rjh=-" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:42952dbe$(E-Mail Removed)...
> thing wrote:
>> steve wrote:
>>
>>> thing wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would make interesting boot disks.....one flash drive v 2 scsi/sata
>>>> drives and a HW raid controller....might actually work out
>>>> cheaper....and faster.
>>>>
>>>> Except of course if "someone" developed a read only region for the OS
>>>> and it was pre-installed with a MS OS.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure you'd be able to buy ones that didn't...or could be hacked.

>>
>>
>> Im sure you could, of course most computer users will simply buy a
>> Windows PC "that cant be hacked", only to find if they want to
>> swap to Linux or OS/2 (grin) it cant be done on that hardware.
>>
>> Im sure BG gets wet dreams over that possibility....

>
> I would not be surprised if MS produces a low end Windows "lite" hardware
> and software product for home users.
>
> Xbox is exactly that, but is aimed too much at gamers; but it demonstrates
> that MS is willing to drop a vast amount of money into something that may
> takes years to become profitable.
>
> A low end system for people who only want to check email, surf the web,
> chat and upload photos could be successful for a company like MS. Tie the
> OS into the hardware in a way that makes it difficult to fiddle with; add
> a subscription service (which is what Xbox Live is); do automatic online
> updates as Windows does now; and MS could make money at this. They've got
> a size and brand advantage over any other company that has or would like
> to try this.
>
> You could buy the system at Xbox prices, and pay a monthly subscription
> through your ISP - Xtra would go for this. Instead of having to set up a
> separate ADSL or dialup modem, this could be incorporated and ready to run
> out of the box.
>
> Many home PC users find their software far too complex to use, and it far
> exceeds their functional requirements. If this was dumbed down and had
> extra MS online products built into it - like MS searching, a dedicated
> hotmail client, etc, it could be easy to use. The market isn't as
> glamorous as games, but overall I would guess it would be bigger.
>
> MS would be entering an area that doesn't conflict with their OEMs; and
> they must have noticed the stir that the Apple Mac Mini has made in some
> circles. It would be a different market, but still...
>
> Within two years, I reckon. It isn't a new idea, but hardware is getting
> really cheap and there are more compelling online applications now.



 
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-=rjh=-
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      05-26-2005
Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote:
> In article <42952dbe$(E-Mail Removed)>, -=rjh=- <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Many home PC users find their software far too complex to use, and it
>>far exceeds their functional requirements.

>
>
> This is a load of nonsense. People won't buy less-functional software,
> because they think they're getting less value for their money. Features
> sell. That's how the market works.


Now *that* *is* a load of nonsense.

They are paying less money anyway. Price sells, not features. That's why
we have so many substandard houses in NZ, built for the lowest possible
price. Housing would be even worse if legislation didn't mandate certain
features as compulsory. It is easy to assume, that just because most
posters here might enjoy a reasonable income (I know that not all here
do, though), that other computer purchasers also do; but for a lot of
people, buying any computer is a real stretch. They don't care about
features. They just want to get started.

You might be spending your time with different people than I do. Or
maybe just transfering your view of what is desirable onto everyone
else. You are also thinking of the traditional PC market, which is a
decreasing share of "computing" devices right now. Witness the growth of
smartphones and media players.

For example, my neighbours (in their 70s) just could not care about
features; they just want to do email and a little bit of web browsing.
They are terrified that, with all the choices available on menus, they
might break their PC, so they tend not to do anything that needs to be
accessed by a menu - they stick to using icons on toolbars. They are
*never* even going to change their desktop background. They'd even be
worried it might break the computer if I went over and did it for them.

My father has one single reason for using a computer - to check world
croquet rankings. Doesn't take much of an OS to do that, does it?

The Ipod is as feature free (when compared to other MP3 players) as it
is possible to get; they are selling by the bucketload, and the Shuffle,
more so.

Xbox and Playstation lack functions, but seem to work OK and sell well
enough despite this.

One of the major phone manufacturers has just recently released two
models of cellphone that are delightfully feature free, and with large
displays and keys. I'm betting they've done their market research on
this, and that there is a significant market segment that doesn't want
any extra features.

In addition, the market the device I described is aimed at probably
won't know what features they aren't getting, and besides, the hardware
and software form the complete package - if it is attractive and trendy
enough (not in any kind of pure fashion sense, though) it'll sell. Look
at Ipod.

Look at the just announced Nokia 770 - extremely featureless when
compared to a PC (laptop or tablet) or even current PDAs, but who cares?
It is designed to do a certain range of tasks, and if it does them, who
cares about functionality. Heck, I'd buy one, and I already have a PDA.

Load of nonsense? I don't think so. But it is my opinion.
 
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Lawrence DčOliveiro
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      05-26-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, thing <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote:
>> In article <429438b3$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Where have I heard this before ... anybody remember magnetic bubble
>>>>memory from the late 1970s? It was slower to access than semiconductor
>>>>RAM, but more expensive than hard drives. Falling between two stools, it
>>>>was never very popular.
>>>
>>>Agreed.....but that was then and the day of solid state hard drives has
>>>always been coming.
>>>
>>>The sheer reliability of the things, combined with more speed and chips
>>>are getting cheaper all the time.

>>
>>
>> So have the hard drives.
>>
>>
>>>The cost curve had to meet the demand curve at some point......and there
>>>would be no looking back.

>>
>>
>> The point is, it has to catch up with hard drives. But they continue to
>> grow in capacity-per-unit-price at an unrelenting rate.

>
>Depends on what you use the disks for. For a single harddrive box like a
> desktop, 1 drive is cheapest and I suspect will be for a while.
>
>If you want something more reliable for booting then you need to go to 2
>disks and a hardware raid. 2 disks plus the hw raid is not cheap...


It _is_ cheap. It's so cheap you can get motherboards with it built-in.

>Also some critical data like journal logs, dba logs etc could be
>dedicated to a flash drive, these are usually highly critical and read /
>write intensive so performance gains here yield noticable improvements.


These are not mass-market applications, so they're not going to
contribute substantially to sales volume, which is what you need to
drive the price down. If you can't drive the price down, then it won't
be competitive with hard drives.
 
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Bruce Sinclair
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      05-26-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Roger Johnstone <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>In <F_5le.2891$(E-Mail Removed)> Bruce Sinclair wrote:
>>
>> The great joy of integrated circuits is that it's effectively one
>> thing to fail. While there might be millins of 'transistor
>> equivalents' ... these don't enter the equation. As it was once
>> explained to me ... we wouldn't have video recorders if they built
>> them out of discrete transistors

>
>We might not have _affordable_ video recorders, but the first video tape
>recorders were developed in the early 1950s, and it's likely they
>wouldn't have had any transistors in them at all. Of course they were
>slightly bigger and more expensive than the versions sold today )


No we wouldn't have ANY (well ... no useful ones). They would spend most of
their time broken ... all the individual transistors all with their own MTBF

Tape recorders are a different thing.

Remember how reliable the first valve computers were ? .. and there
weren't even many parts in those



Bruce


-------------------------------------
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
- George Bernard Shaw
Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
- Ambrose Bierce

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
 
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Lawrence DčOliveiro
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      05-27-2005
In article <tGrle.3173$(E-Mail Removed)>,
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed)z (Bruce Sinclair)
wrote:

>Remember how reliable the first valve computers were ? .. and there
>weren't even many parts in those


ENIAC (ca 1946) had 18,000 valves. Every time it was switched on, a few
would blow.

So the solution was ... never switch it off.
 
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Lawrence DčOliveiro
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      05-27-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
I wrote:

>In article <429438b3$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>The cost curve had to meet the demand curve at some point......and there
>>would be no looking back.

>
>The point is, it has to catch up with hard drives. But they continue to
>grow in capacity-per-unit-price at an unrelenting rate.


Actually, there is a way that flash drives could catch up with hard
drives. You need a mass market where it's not practical to use hard
drives. And I mean _mass_ market.

The obvious answer is cellphones. Why would a cellphone need tens of
gigabytes of flash drive space? Why, so it can become an MP3 player, of
course. And perhaps in future, a video player as well. It seems a
natural plan: the cellphone market is huge--bigger even than the PC
market. And it's a market where Apple's iPod cannot play.

Once flash works its way up to hard-drive-like capacities in that
market, it will be a natural crossover to then go into the PC market.
 
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Gib Bogle
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      05-28-2005
steve wrote:
> Flash hard drives will be standard in all PCs within a very few years, I
> would think.


I heard something similar to that 10 years ago. What is the bang/buck?
 
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Bruce Sinclair
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      05-29-2005
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Lawrence DčOliveiro <(E-Mail Removed)_zealand> wrote:
>In article <tGrle.3173$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed)z (Bruce Sinclair)
> wrote:
>
>>Remember how reliable the first valve computers were ? .. and there
>>weren't even many parts in those

>
>ENIAC (ca 1946) had 18,000 valves. Every time it was switched on, a few
>would blow.
>
>So the solution was ... never switch it off.


... then you only lost about one every 20 minutes (on average) IIRC


Bruce


-------------------------------------
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
- George Bernard Shaw
Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
- Ambrose Bierce

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
 
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