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Apple mac questions - OS / X

 
 
wogers nemesis
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      04-29-2005
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:44:31 +1200, michael wrote:

> hi
> I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.
>
> I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.
>
> I'm feedup with Linux.
>
> So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.
>
> 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.
>
> What is the bare minimum I need to run OS/X so I
> can see what its like and if I'd actually want to
> use it and get a more powerful system.


Well firstly it is known as OS X (where the X is the roman numeral ten).

Bare minimum is around G4 400 MHz with 256 megs of memory (finally Apple
now ship new machines with a more realistic 512 megs..).

I'd try and find a G4 Tower rather than iMacs.

Trademe prices are always a joke.

The G4 400 MHz tower is around 4 years old now so I'm surprised it is
really worth much at all. Then again someone probably paid top dollar for
it when it was new.
 
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Roger Johnstone
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      04-29-2005
In <8qnce.2181$(E-Mail Removed)> michael wrote:
>
> thanks, I read that on the web site but it does not
> mean much to me as I've no idea about power pc compared to intel, amd,
> etc.
>
> I mean if I had a g3 based system running os /x would it be like
> running windows XP on a 500mhz celeron.
>
> So maybe I should of said, to have a reasonably good experience
> of os/x what is the minium requirement.
>
> Also, why on earth is FireWire a requirement???


Apple hasn't said, but the generally accepted theory is that it's a
simple cutoff point for motherboard support i.e. all the Macs that have _
built-in_ FireWire also have version xyz memory controller, bridge chip,
8MB VRAM or whatever. They did a similar thing with 10.3 where it
required built-in USB ports.

At an absolute minimum you would want a second generation CRT iMac, the
ones with a slot-loading optical drive. I have a friend with an old iMac (
350MHz G3, 320MB RAM, upgraded to a 20GB drive). It runs Mac OS 10.3
very well. If you go for a CRT iMac get at least a 400MHz one though.
The 350MHz ones were cheapened up by leaving out the FireWire ports, VGA
video out and internal WiFi connector and antenna.

Ultimately though, what do you want to use it for? If it's just to try
out Mac OS X or for Internet access then an old iMac is fine. If you
want to use it as your main computer or for more demanding tasks then
get at least a Mac mini. Don't forget for that $1000 you also get the
latest OS ($250) and iLife software bundle ($160). If you buy an older
used Mac it'll also come with an old version of the OS, and Mac OS X has
improved a lot in the four years since its release.

--
Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
http://vintageware.orcon.net.nz/
__________________________________________________ ______________________
No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would all the calculators go?

Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode "The Last Day"
 
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Jamie Kahn Genet
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      04-29-2005
michael <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> hi
> I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.


Nothing wrong with that. We're all newbies at some point. Believe it or
not, I personally don't drive. Put me in front of a steering wheel and
I'd have a far tougher time than adapting to Macs from WinPCs.

> I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.


Personally, despite using many WinPCs over the years Windows has always
been felt like it's an uphill battle against the OS to get things done.

> I'm feedup with Linux.


Pity, that's what I'd have suggested as the lowest cost alternate OS to
try as there are many excellent (if geeky) *nix distributions for IBM
compatibles, which you already own on of.

> So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.


Not a bad idea, but you will find Macs cost a little more than PCs. Not
that much more, and you're often getting more hardware standard that
you'd pay extra for from, say Dell or HP, plus I've experienced less
headaches using MacOS - thus less downtime, and I actually save money
over the long run.

With MacOS X you get the superb stability of underlying BSD Unix core
and the beautiful Apple Mac GUI on top, so you need never use the rather
arcane command line if you don't want to (though I highly recommend
learning at least a little Unix - it can be very valuable and at times
give you more power than any GUI is capable of, if at the expense of
ease of use).

> 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.


One thing about Macs - they hold onto their value secondhand far better
than PCs.

> What is the bare minimum I need to run OS/X so I
> can see what its like and if I'd actually want to
> use it and get a more powerful system.


I (at least until tomorrow when the newer MacOS - Tiger 10.4 is
released) can still run the latest MacOS 10.3.9 on Macs as old as the
very first Bondi Rev A tray-loading iMac (233MHz G3). 10.4 has heftier
requirements though. I would recommend buying at least a G4 Mac (old
eMacs are often a great deal, likewise old B&W G3 towers upgraded with a
G4 card) to run 10.3.9 or 10.4. If you possibly can splurge on a Dual
Processor model do so - it will speed things considerably when running
two or more CPU intensive applications.

Still, if you're after a bargain take a good in depth look at
<http://lowendmac.com/> and then hop on TradeMe. LowEndMac has the best
advice you'll find on running secondhand Macs - what OS versions they'll
run, accepted upgrades, excellent advice, specifications on every single
Mac in existence, etc. Fantastic web site!

But if you simply want the short answer - then it's buy a G4 eMac. They
make great low cost starter Macs and will run all but the most graphic
intensive new games and 3D software.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask either
to nz.comp or by email. I'm always willing to help out new Macs users
I'm sure you'll find lots of other friendly Mac users both here and
in the comp.sys.mac.* groups.

HTH,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
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Jamie Kahn Genet
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      04-29-2005
Nova <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> michael wrote:
> > hi
> > I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.
> >
> > I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.
> >
> > I'm feedup with Linux.
> >
> > So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.
> >
> > 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.
> >
> > What is the bare minimum I need to run OS/X

>
> a lot of patience


Actually I find MacOS 10.3.9 runs fine even on my Rev a iMacs (G3
233MHz), so long as I've plenty of RAM (which I have - 384MB) and don't
run to many CPU intensive applications at once. So I'm not sure what
your crack about patience is all about. I'd like to see WinXP run ok on
an eight year old PC!

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
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Jamie Kahn Genet
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      04-29-2005
XPD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:zBlce.2164$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > hi
> > I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.
> >
> > I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.
> >
> > I'm feedup with Linux.
> >
> > So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.
> >
> > 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.
> >
> > What is the bare minimum I need to run OS/X so I
> > can see what its like and if I'd actually want to
> > use it and get a more powerful system.

>
> Tiger requirements
>
> Mac OS X Version 10.4 requires a Macintosh with:
> a.. PowerPC G3, G4, or G5 processor
> b.. Built-in FireWire
> c.. At least 256MB of physical RAM
> d.. A built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video
> card supported by your computer
> e.. At least 3.0 GB of available space on your hard drive; 4GB of disk
> space if you install XCode 2 developer tools
> Note: Mac OS X does not support processor upgrade cards. The amount of disk
> space required depends on your computer and the way you are installing Mac
> OS X.


Michael will find dirt cheap copies of Panther (MacOS 10.3.x) on Ebay
and TradeMe now Tiger (MacOS 10.4)'s release is imminent. For some one
just starting out and old iMac or eMac and a secondhand copy of Panther
is also a good option IMHO. Not to say 10.4 doesn't have some nice
features <http://www.apple.co.nz/macosx/>, but it's hardware
requirements are heftier (by comparison 10.3.x merely requires any G3 or
better Mac with built in USB) and of course, it's now much more
expensive.

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
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Jamie Kahn Genet
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      04-29-2005
Roger Johnstone <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
[snip]
> Ultimately though, what do you want to use it for? If it's just to try
> out Mac OS X or for Internet access then an old iMac is fine. If you
> want to use it as your main computer or for more demanding tasks then
> get at least a Mac mini. Don't forget for that $1000 you also get the
> latest OS ($250) and iLife software bundle ($160). If you buy an older
> used Mac it'll also come with an old version of the OS, and Mac OS X has
> improved a lot in the four years since its release.


Hi again Roger

Silly of me not to have thought to mention the Mac mini in my own reply!
So long as you get one with more than the base 256MB RAM it's perfect
for switchers and those after a second computer, who usually already
have a decent monitor, kb and mouse, or spares floating around. As you
say - with 10.4 and iLife '05 included it's very competitive compared to
secondhand Macs with outdated or no included software.

But if you do get a Mac mini, Michael - I say again: make sure you get
more than the base 256MB RAM! You'll be glad you did, trust me. The main
slow down for any modern MacOS X Mac is being forced to use virtual
memory constantly. IMHO 512MB is the minimum for good performance
running multiple applications.

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
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Jamie Kahn Genet
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      04-29-2005
michael <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
[snip]
> > Wouldn't you just go out and buy a Mac Mini? Considering the hardware
> > *and* software you are getting (Tiger), it seems a good enough deal; if
> > you don't like it I'm sure you could sell it on Trademe for at least
> > what you bought it for
> >
> > Secondhand Macs seem to retain their value quite well, not sure why.

>
> Yes I've been thinking about doing this.
> My biggest concern was its alot to shell out and then find
> I hate OS/X and then have the hassle of selling it on trademe.
>
> With a really cheap mac at least the kids could continue to use it.
>
> Goign to have a play at Harvey Normans tomorrow.


I'd suggest an outfit like <http://www.totallymac.com/> (don't let the
..com address fool you - they're a NZ Apple Authorised reseller) over
Harvey Norman. The Totally Mac guys know what they're talking about IME.
Not so the hopeless HN sales droids.

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
 
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FreedomChooser
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      04-30-2005
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:51:47 +1200, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Jamie
Kahn Genet) wrote:

>Nova <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> michael wrote:
>> > hi
>> > I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.
>> >
>> > I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.
>> >
>> > I'm feedup with Linux.
>> >
>> > So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.
>> >
>> > 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.
>> >
>> > What is the bare minimum I need to run OS/X

>>
>> a lot of patience

>
>Actually I find MacOS 10.3.9 runs fine even on my Rev a iMacs (G3
>233MHz), so long as I've plenty of RAM (which I have - 384MB) and don't
>run to many CPU intensive applications at once. So I'm not sure what
>your crack about patience is all about. I'd like to see WinXP run ok on
>an eight year old PC!


Seems to run will on a Pentium II 266 with 512MB


 
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Alastair McAllister
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      04-30-2005
In <(E-Mail Removed)> -=rjh=- wrote:

> michael wrote:


>> I'm a total newbie when it comes to Mac's.
>> I'm also very frustrated with MS Windows.
>> I'm feedup with Linux.
>>
>> So I thought I'd give OS/X a go on a MAC.
>> 2nd hand Mac's on trademe seem very expensive still.


> Wouldn't you just go out and buy a Mac Mini? Considering the hardware
> *and* software you are getting (Tiger), it seems a good enough deal;
> if you don't like it I'm sure you could sell it on Trademe for at
> least what you bought it for


I'm not sure what the situation is now, but there were major supply
problems with the Mac Mini when it was first released. At the moment,
Totallymac.com seem to have the standard 1.42GHz model in stock (
although they only have three, which probably won't last long), while
other models have waiting times of between a week and a month.


> Secondhand Macs seem to retain their value quite well, not sure why.


Mac users tend to keep their machines in service for longer, hence they
depreciate more slowly. This is one of the reasons why the claim that
Macs are more expensive than PCs is a fallacy.

--
Regards, Alastair.
Wellington, New Zealand
www.alastair.geek.nz

My supplied email address is fake. Any views expressed in this posting
are personal and its content remains the property of Alastair. Alastair
accepts no responsibility for any misinformation resulting from this
posting.
 
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Alastair McAllister
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      04-30-2005
In <1gvtbvg.1qhwy1du2rt67N%(E-Mail Removed) > Jamie Kahn Genet
wrote:

> michael <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> Yes I've been thinking about doing this.
>> My biggest concern was its alot to shell out and then find
>> I hate OS/X and then have the hassle of selling it on trademe.


> I'd suggest an outfit like <http://www.totallymac.com/> (don't let the
> ..com address fool you - they're a NZ Apple Authorised reseller) over
> Harvey Norman. The Totally Mac guys know what they're talking about
> IME. Not so the hopeless HN sales droids.


I agree with this. It's good to see the big chain stores selling Macs
because these are the places where first time computer buyers are likely
to go, but I have found Totallymac.com and Magnum Mac to be far more
professional and knowledgeable than Harvey Norman or Big Byte.

--
Regards, Alastair.
Wellington, New Zealand
www.alastair.geek.nz

My supplied email address is fake. Any views expressed in this posting
are personal and its content remains the property of Alastair. Alastair
accepts no responsibility for any misinformation resulting from this
posting.
 
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