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Orcon News Server.......sadness remains

 
 
steve
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      04-15-2005
Oh dear....

The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
this one.

"alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
over the past 3 YEARS...........

I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.

But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.

*sigh*......back to Google Groups.


 
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R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh
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      04-15-2005
In message <425f94e5$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Oh dear....
>
>The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
>newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
>this one.
>
>"alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
>the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
>over the past 3 YEARS...........
>
>I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
>commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.
>
>But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.
>
>*sigh*......back to Google Groups.


Is this one hit, or over a period of days? It could be that Orcon
samples posts of idle groups give browsers an idea of what's posted
there, and will update properly if you start regularly requesting it.
Having nothing until someone requests posts is not uncommon. Maybe
this is a variation of that?
--
R.G. "Stumpy" Marsh.
Timaru, New Zealand.
 
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Stephen Worthington
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      04-15-2005
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:14:07 UTC, R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In message <425f94e5$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Oh dear....
> >
> >The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
> >newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
> >this one.
> >
> >"alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
> >the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
> >over the past 3 YEARS...........
> >
> >I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
> >commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.
> >
> >But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.
> >
> >*sigh*......back to Google Groups.

>
> Is this one hit, or over a period of days? It could be that Orcon
> samples posts of idle groups give browsers an idea of what's posted
> there, and will update properly if you start regularly requesting it.
> Having nothing until someone requests posts is not uncommon. Maybe
> this is a variation of that?


On a new Dnews sucking server setup, newsgroups default to not being
sucked and there is nothing in the local Dnews database for the group.
Someone has to access the newsgroup, then you have to wait a while
for it to suck a copy of it from its upstream servers. This may
happen fairly quickly, or it may have to wait for some set period for
the next scheduled suck from the upstream servers. So before you get
too worried about it, try downloading from all the groups you want on
Orcon, then coming back the next day to see if they are now up to date
and sucking regularly.
 
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The Other Guy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-15-2005
steve wrote:
> Oh dear....
>
> The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
> newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
> this one.
>
> "alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
> the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
> over the past 3 YEARS...........
>
> I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
> commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.
>
> But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.
>
> *sigh*......back to Google Groups.


It appears alt.politics was not cached.

C:\>nntpscan news.orcon.net.nz -groups:alt.politics -!r:newsgroups:.*,.*
-backup:#nsnum.txt
Connecting to news.orcon.net.nz:119... done
Obtaining list of newsgroups from server... 1 matching group found
Processing alt.politics from 1223429 to 1223802...
Message matching rule 0 - alt.politics:1223634

Running a regular expression match against the newsgroups header, I
found only one message that wasn't a cross-post, and it is from you...

----- 1223634.txt -----
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:12:55 +1200
From: steve <(E-Mail Removed)>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.politics
Subject: so let's see if this works.....stupid news server.....
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NNTP-Posting-Host: port-30-97.fastadsl.net.nz
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: port-30-97.fastadsl.net.nz
Message-ID: <(E-Mail Removed)>
X-Trace: news.orcon.net.nz 1113559969 210.54.30.97 (15 Apr 2005 22:12:49
+1200)
X-Original-Trace: 15 Apr 2005 22:12:49 +1200, port-30-97.fastadsl.net.nz
Lines: 2
Path: news.orcon.net.nz!not-for-mail
Xref: news.orcon.net.nz alt.politics:1223634


d'oh!!!!!!!!
----- 1223634.txt -----

Because they are all cross posts, it is most likely they were added
while updating other cached groups. Posting your message won't cause
DNews to cache the group, but it will be sent out to other servers.

To cause a group to be cached, you must _read_ a message (you may have
done this already). I done it now in alt.politics, so it should update
within the next hour or so. If not, then you'll need to contact Orcon
directly to get them to fix it.

The Other Guy
 
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Collector»NZ
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      04-15-2005
The Other Guy said the following on 16/04/2005 8:17 a.m.:
tly to get them to fix it.
>
> The Other Guy



Okay you seem to be doing Craigs job at the moment

Can you estimate when the server will catch up in Nz groups, it is
painful to the point of unusable at the moment and has been since day dot.

Propergation also appears to be very slow, a message posted on another
nz server can take an hour to appear, likewise messages posted on Orcon
take ages to propergate to other NZ servers.

It appears that unless it improves substantially the old proxy to news
groups might have been better. When we tested giga for Craig as news2 it
was good, but I suspect that test was being proxied to Giga not being
used as a feed as it is now.

My email is real and unmunged, it is checked from time to time.



--
>>Follow ups may be set to a single group when appropriate!

================================================== ====================
| Local 40.9000°S, 174.9830°E |
================================================== ====================
"I used to jog, but the ice kept bouncing out of my glass."
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine......
However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
 
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Chris Mayhew
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      04-15-2005
Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:14:07 UTC, R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>In message <425f94e5$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oh dear....
>>>
>>>The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
>>>newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
>>>this one.
>>>
>>>"alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
>>>the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
>>>over the past 3 YEARS...........
>>>
>>>I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
>>>commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.
>>>
>>>But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.
>>>
>>>*sigh*......back to Google Groups.

>>
>>Is this one hit, or over a period of days? It could be that Orcon
>>samples posts of idle groups give browsers an idea of what's posted
>>there, and will update properly if you start regularly requesting it.
>>Having nothing until someone requests posts is not uncommon. Maybe
>>this is a variation of that?

>
>
> On a new Dnews sucking server setup, newsgroups default to not being
> sucked and there is nothing in the local Dnews database for the group.
> Someone has to access the newsgroup, then you have to wait a while
> for it to suck a copy of it from its upstream servers. This may
> happen fairly quickly, or it may have to wait for some set period for
> the next scheduled suck from the upstream servers. So before you get
> too worried about it, try downloading from all the groups you want on
> Orcon, then coming back the next day to see if they are now up to date
> and sucking regularly.


Well I have been waiting a couple of days now for a couple of groups
that still have the original message.


--
 
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steve
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-15-2005
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh wrote:
> In message <425f94e5$(E-Mail Removed)>, steve
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Oh dear....
>>
>>The new orcon news server (Giganews) is full of ancient posts....and
>>newsgroups that are busy on other news servers but damn near inactive on
>>this one.
>>
>>"alt.politics" usually has about 1,000 new posts each day.....yet from
>>the Orcon/GigaNews server, it appears there have been only 239 posts
>>over the past 3 YEARS...........
>>
>>I follow alt.politics as it often / usually has the very first net
>>commentary / source on any new / hot / rising political issue.
>>
>>But there's pretty much nothing to follow on the Orcon server.
>>
>>*sigh*......back to Google Groups.

>
>
> Is this one hit, or over a period of days?


Since it became available....which - admittedly - is just a few days
(2-3 at time of writing).

> It could be that Orcon
> samples posts of idle groups give browsers an idea of what's posted
> there, and will update properly if you start regularly requesting it.


OK....I'll give it a few more days.

> Having nothing until someone requests posts is not uncommon. Maybe
> this is a variation of that?


Could be....but one of the reasons I gave up on Orcon's server WAY back
(before newsfeeds.com) was those little DNEWS group download
messages........only the group never, ever downloaded in anything
resembling a useful way.

The new newsserver also seems to suffer this DNEWS
"problem".....promising to download a group...then bringing in a sample
of 240-ish (or whatever) posts somehow cobbled together over week,
months or years....from somewhere....when there should be thousands and
thousands of posts for the past few weeks alone.

 
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The Other Guy
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-15-2005
Collector»NZ wrote:
> The Other Guy said the following on 16/04/2005 8:17 a.m.:
> tly to get them to fix it.
>
>>
>> The Other Guy

>
>
>
> Okay you seem to be doing Craigs job at the moment
>
> Can you estimate when the server will catch up in Nz groups, it is
> painful to the point of unusable at the moment and has been since day dot.
>
> Propergation also appears to be very slow, a message posted on another
> nz server can take an hour to appear, likewise messages posted on Orcon
> take ages to propergate to other NZ servers.
>
> It appears that unless it improves substantially the old proxy to news
> groups might have been better. When we tested giga for Craig as news2 it
> was good, but I suspect that test was being proxied to Giga not being
> used as a feed as it is now.
>
> My email is real and unmunged, it is checked from time to time.


I have as much access to the Orcon server as everyone else does, and
haven't seen the configuration, so I really can't give an estimate on
how long it will take to catch up, if ever.

I say "if ever", because there is a good chance it may never catch up.
Seeby mentioned the server was managing 3Mbs^-1 (IIRC), which is more
than enough to catch up a full text feed. The question is, how many
binaries are being pulled, and how much 'history' are they trying to obtain?

The propagation delay is horrible... I have not been obtaining news from
the Orcon server myself (Except using NNTPScan, just to monitor
performance), but I have noticed some rather long delays before messages
get to me.

The reason for this is most likely that -

1/ Although Orcon may be using IHAVE between other NZ servers, they all
have **** newsfeeds and very few are capable of sending upstream reliably.

2/ They are posting upstream which from memory gets queued in the same
way as sucking does. If they send using IHAVE using the 'dfeed' feed
type, they will go upstream much quicker.

Regarding the nz.* groups, I will run a script to feed these out to the
real world quicker over the weekend.

The Other Guy
 
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steve
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-15-2005
The Other Guy wrote:

> To cause a group to be cached, you must _read_ a message (you may have
> done this already). I done it now in alt.politics, so it should update
> within the next hour or so. If not, then you'll need to contact Orcon
> directly to get them to fix it.
>
> The Other Guy


OK....I thought I had read some of the posts that were there.....even if
only by default when selecting one.....

Thanks TOG.
 
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steve
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      04-15-2005
R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh wrote:

> Is this one hit, or over a period of days? It could be that Orcon
> samples posts of idle groups give browsers an idea of what's posted
> there, and will update properly if you start regularly requesting it.
> Having nothing until someone requests posts is not uncommon. Maybe
> this is a variation of that?


Data point:

As of 11am, Saturday morning, about 90% of the posts currently in
alt.politics date from mid-2003.

I guess I first subscribed to it about 48 hours ago.....so we will see
what happens.

I'll read and post a bit.
 
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