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I hate Windows

 
 
Enkidu
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      11-12-2004
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:41:19 +1300, David Preece
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this

>
>I see you didn't have a reply to that bit.
>

As to what causes that, not reading the manual, making the wrong
choice when presented with an option....

You need to remove the old video driver before installing a new card.
The procedure is, remove the old driver, reboot, shutdown, replace
video card, install new driver. This is so that the new card is not
trying to use the old drivers but defaults to VGA mode. This is more
because of badly written video drivers than anything in Windows.

Depending on your virus software, you may need to inactivate that too.

As far as the floppy thing is concerned the OS is not yet loaded at
the stage that you need to provide the drivers for the SATA or RAID.
Microsoft should either a) provide the drivers on the CD or b) allow
the loading of drivers from a separate CD. It should be in the docs
and the OS does prompt during install for special drivers.

Cheers,

Cliff
 
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Mr Scebe
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      11-12-2004

"Enkidu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:14:16 +1300, "Mr Scebe" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
> >
> >I have used RIS extensively and a PC can be brought up on the
> >network within half an hour or so - automated, fully patched and ready to
> >go.
> >

> Apart from the fact that I've never before met anyone who got RIS to
> work - it always fails at the "Hit F12" stage, it's not a practical
> solution for two or three PCs.


That's probably because it doesn't have the correct drivers for the network
card. Under 2000 there was limited support for network cards, but you can
install more drivers using this method:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;246184

Caution: if you're trying to do it on Compaq deskpro's then there were some
secondary issues with the network drivers that they supplied - i had a ****
of a job getting them working at the time (with Intel NIC's). I've just
tried searching google for the site that i found the solution on, but i
couldn't see it (this was a couple of years ago). Try this out:
http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en...S+driver&meta=

--
Mr Scebe
Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
~Sean Connery in "The Rock"


 
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David Preece
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      11-12-2004
Enkidu wrote:
>>>>As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this

>>

> As to what causes that, not reading the manual, making the wrong
> choice when presented with an option....


Press F7 to hose root volume?

> You need to remove the old video driver before installing a new card.


Ah, OK. Remove old video driver to not hose root volume. My bad, it was
written on the box.

They were both nVidia cards. It uses a unified driver. Even if you
switch nVidia with ATI or Matrox (remember them?) Windows should default
to VGA. In fact, it was in the process of doing so when the drive got hosed.

> As far as the floppy thing is concerned the OS is not yet loaded at
> the stage that you need to provide the drivers for the SATA or RAID.
> Microsoft should either a) provide the drivers on the CD or b) allow
> the loading of drivers from a separate CD.


In this case my beef is with the design of the hardware more than
anything else. I had taken it as read that SATA was going to be more or
less a replacement for ATA and that a clean upgrade path had been part
of the design. In much the same was as USB2 and USB1.1 seem to remain
friends. This whole "spangly raid driver" thing is just a bit too much.

I just want to connect a disk. If I had known that SATA was going to be
such a pain in the arse I would have just got an ATA drive and be done
with it.

> It should be in the docs
> and the OS does prompt during install for special drivers.


I know. The first few times through I didn't though - I'm always pretty
"wait to be asked a question" rather than "this is your window of
opportunity".

Dave
 
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Mr Scebe
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      11-12-2004

"David Preece" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2LYkd.971$(E-Mail Removed)...

> So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
> another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
> it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
> stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at
> all. Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys
>
> Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
> from this?


This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have the
correct network driver installed - boot into safe mode and replace the NIC
driver with a signed one if possible.

--
Mr Scebe
Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
~Sean Connery in "The Rock"


 
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David Preece
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      11-12-2004
Gordon wrote:
> As you said "Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW". Seems to me to be an answer.


There is that, but this machine was bought for a few specific uses.

* Develop Windows software. We have to support this lame-arse operating
system because so many people have it. You'll be pleased to hear that
it's not even on the roadmap for server side.

* Run 64 bit Linux. More than anything I'm interested in it's
performance relative to a G5 of the same clock speed.

* Play Doom 3.

* Play Half Life 2.

* Perhaps the occasional blast of UT2004.

* Maybe even Far Cry would go on something this fast.

Only the second one of these gets fulfilled by a functioning
installation of Suse 9.1. Everything else gets done on a Mac.

Dave

 
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David Preece
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      11-12-2004
Geronimo wrote:
> He stated the Problem, its the utter Crap VIA thing..


Ah, I knew I'd get one.

My previous PC was (still is) a KT133A based Athlon. Steady as a rock,
never even blinked. This was the basis behind buying another via chipset.

Now, much as though I'd like to foam at the mouth and say there's
nothing wrong with via, on this occasion I think I might be wrong. This
is a new machine, and the drive is hosed - I strongly suspect either the
SATA drivers (which, as we know, are not 'real' MS ones) or that there
is some description of timing issue caused by via trying to one up nVidia.

Doesn't answer the question of why SuSE has no problem with it though.

> XP Has to use the Floppy to Install IDE/STATA Drivers..


I know this too. The question is: does nForce have the same problem? If
if so, why's it so hard to make a SATA interface that looks like an ATA
one to the operating system?

Dave
 
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Allistar
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      11-12-2004
David Preece wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>> As you said "Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW". Seems to me to be an answer.

>
> There is that, but this machine was bought for a few specific uses.
>
> * Develop Windows software. We have to support this lame-arse operating
> system because so many people have it. You'll be pleased to hear that
> it's not even on the roadmap for server side.
>
> * Run 64 bit Linux. More than anything I'm interested in it's
> performance relative to a G5 of the same clock speed.
>
> * Play Doom 3.
>
> * Play Half Life 2.
>
> * Perhaps the occasional blast of UT2004.


UT2004 runs perfectly on my Gentoo linux box using an NVidia 5200 (PCI, this
Serverworks mb doesn't have an AGP slot). Great game. I wish it wouldn't
distract me form working so much.

> * Maybe even Far Cry would go on something this fast.
>
> Only the second one of these gets fulfilled by a functioning
> installation of Suse 9.1. Everything else gets done on a Mac.
>
> Dave


Allistar.

 
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David Preece
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      11-12-2004
Mr Scebe wrote:
>>Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
>>from this?

>
> This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have the
> correct network driver installed


Ah. Also a common misconception it seems. The name of the driver comes
up once it has successfully been loaded, so the one after is the one
we're having problems with. This turns out to be the ACPI driver, and
this in turn has problems with a corrupt ESCI. In some cases rebuilding
the ESCI has fixed it - and this is why some people get it when they add
new cards.

Not that this information has helped me in any way, but hey. Gotta give
it a go, right?

Dave

 
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Brendan
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      11-12-2004
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:28:54 +1300, David Preece wrote:

> Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
> 64.


Make sure you install the official athlon 64 drivers for the cpu (available
on www.amd.com). Helps a bit with stability too.

These also allow coolnquiet to work (make sure you change the power profile
in control panel - the default one does not work with it, iir. just a
quirk). Assuming your mb supports it.

Make sure you install the mb chipset drivers as well... (I assume you did
this already).

>We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
> tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous.


Check the PSU levels. Especially the +12v line. Make sure they are all on
spec.

>Installing XP on this
> was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
> have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy
> disk (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course
> you would in 2004.


With my athlon 64 XP system, I did that from the first. I agree they should
also accept CDROM's, usb drives, etc. But the line has to be drawn
somewhere - it's only an install app after all..

I discovered my nforce 3 based MB didn't actually NEED the driver floppy to
install XP; the nforce ide drivers could be installed after the os boots.

One thing though: how big is the HD you are installing XP to ? Apparently,
XP without service pack 1 or better installed do not do drives over 137GB.

Or more correctly, if the boot partition has files over that 137gb
threshold, and it's in a pre-sp1 XP, you'll have trouble.

You could install it to a smaller partition, but making sure it is not on
the 137gb boundary could be 'fun' if you already have partitions on there
and added a new one onto the 'end' of the drive. KISS = 1st partition on a
clean drive, called C:, and this is the os install boot system drive.

A cdrom with windows XP with SP2 slipstreamed into that disk is the best
way of avoiding the problem.

> Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
> and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few
> times, costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows,
> it's supposed to **** itself right?


My experience of windows XP has been pretty good. It's been reliable and
robust, and if we could get rid of the stupid microsoft mentality from it,
it'd be great.

I did have some fun with it, when I installed it on my new athlon 64
system. But I was also playing with two seperate software RAID systems at
the time and image backups (TIP: software RAID + boot CD disk imaging
systems generally cannot be made to work)...

The rest of the fun revolved around CPU drivers, SATA funny business, and
faulty motherboard driver CD... (I'd like a copy of the original MSI K8N
Neo Platinum driver CD if anyone has one please).

> So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
> another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
> it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
> stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at
> all. Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys


Make sure you have all the power connectors connected to that card
correctly, AND the PSU is holding the voltages steady.

> Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
> from this? Read comments from the people who fix PC's for a living and
> see this EVERY ****ING DAY? Anybody feel a twinge of understanding for
> those saying "I've been trying to fix this for two days"?


Make sure your comp is not connected to the net - especially via a LAN -
during setup. So you do not get a worm from the net...

Make sure your drivers are all WCHQ (or whatever) approved, or all known
good drivers.

> So I've tried everything in these damn forums. Forcing the bios to
> rebuild ESCI; moving memory chips around; disabling USB; getting the
> recovery console up and doing a chkdsk /r ... no joy.


Try it with just the ram, cpu, video card and HD. Process of elimination.

Maybe the ram is faulty or incompatible with your MB (borrow a mates ram
for a day).

Maybe the motherboard is flaky.

> Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.


Which would normally mean windows xp should as well. I mean the hardware
hardly cares what OS it is running.

Which would tend to suggest a software problem. Likely drivers. Either
faulty ones, incompatible, or left out.

>All I know is that as the basis for a
> computing device, Windows XP has failed absolutely and completely.


Think about it logically: if windows XP failed like this for everyone else,
failed this easily, it would have been on this news group for years
already. Recalled, media blitz, no xp machines sold, etc, etc.

Therefore it's not specifically windows XP.

>For
> both business and home. I would quite like to recover the contents of
> this drive, but the number of "reinstalling always fixes mup.sys
> problems for me" posts seem to indicate that perhaps this is not an
> option. We will need to do some more Windows development and
> reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch of third party tools and a
> couple of dependent libraries is going to take a non-trivial quantity of
> time. Not to mention the damn-near certainty that it's going to happen
> again. Good job the source code I care about is held on subversion on a
> nice reliable Linux box.


You should have a partition for the OS, and other partitions for your
important files. Then you install it all, with your main apps on one of
those OTHER partitions. Then you Image it with Ghost or true image. Then a
simple boot with the imaging CD will have windows back in no time, your
apps included.

Having it all on one partition was never a great idea.

Having said that, XP should not need to be reinstalled as much as you have
done, especially if you do not install every bit of software out there on a
daily basis and keep it up to date and virus/spyware protected.

--

.... Brendan

"Next week your lesson will go into more detail about how USENET differs from reality, even if you aren't able to tell the difference." -- Brian Reid

Note: All my comments are copyright 12/11/2004 10:31:56 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
 
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Mr Scebe
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      11-12-2004

"David Preece" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bN%kd.1013$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mr Scebe wrote:
> >>Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
> >>from this?

> >
> > This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have

the
> > correct network driver installed

>
> Ah. Also a common misconception it seems. The name of the driver comes
> up once it has successfully been loaded, so the one after is the one
> we're having problems with. This turns out to be the ACPI driver, and
> this in turn has problems with a corrupt ESCI.


Ok, so you're saying that Linux doesn't care if you had a corrupt ESCI, it
would just boot anyway (according to your original post)?

>In some cases rebuilding
> the ESCI has fixed it - and this is why some people get it when they add
> new cards.


I presume that you were getting a stop error (Blue screen of death)? Did you
try searching on that?

Apart from all of this, i still can't reconcile how you think it's MS's
fault for not having a driver installed on their CD for a piece of hardware
that wasn't around when the OS was built. Or is your complaint the fact that
you need to install the driver from a floppy rather than a CD?

--
Mr Scebe
Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
~Sean Connery in "The Rock"


 
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