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Enkidu
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-02-2004
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:01:37 +1300, Collector»NZ
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> Orcon is not obligated in any way to offer a newsfeed service, just as
>> there are some other ISPs which do not.

>
>I agree Patrick they dont have to offer it but the fact is they have/do
>and as such it has to be up to scratch according to the CGA.
>Also of course they could withdraw it instead of fixing it which is a
>strong posibility.
>

It's not a service that can be provided with 100% accuracy. It's a
peer-to-peer service and there are NO guarantees that any article will
get from A to B, let alone to C, D, and E. It's multiply redundant,
but it is also high volume and with a low article retention time. It's
not a priority service and since it involves many operators who all
have different ideas on how newgroups should work and who all apply
different filters (SPAM and porn for example) in different ways, it's
a wonder that articles sometimes struggle through.

Cheers,

Cliff
 
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Brendan
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-02-2004
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:13:39 +1300, Hmmm wrote:

> I'd love to see that try and hold up.


Already has been in many and various industries.

> ISP's don't have to provide a newsfeed at all.


But if they don't, they must display the fact prominently as it is at
variance with accepted practice.

> reemmber that orcon probably have 100 newsfeed posters at most our of
> how many thousand customers? so its a joke to see its a consumer
> expectatio for an isp to have a newsfeed, who are you trying to kid?


All of them do.

> even some isp's dont offer email services.


Which ones are they in New Zealand ?

> Remember that an isp's primary role is simply to offer intneret access.


It's becoming increasingly clear to me that you do not know what the ****
you are talking about.

--

.... Brendan

MISFORTUNE, n. The kind of fortune that never misses. -- Ambrose Bierce

Note: All my comments are copyright 3/11/2004 11:51:26 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

************************************************** **********************
* THE BELOW ADVERT IS NOT MY WORK AND IS APPENDED AGAINST MY WISHES. *
* NEWSFEEDS.COM'S CLAIM OF 100,000 GROUPS IS BOGUS AS MANY OF THEM *
* ARE ILLEGITIMATE AND DELETED BY MOST OTHERS. NEWSFEEDS.COM CANNOT *
*BE TRUSTED. THEY USE YOUR DISCUSSION AS A VEHICLE FOR SPAMMING USENET.*
************************************************** **********************
 
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macca
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-02-2004
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:13:39 +1300, Hmmm <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> Brendan wrote:
> > On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:58 +1300, Allistar wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>The Consumer's Guarantee's Act says it. All other

notable ISP's provide
> >>>one and it is now a consumer expectation.
> >>
> >>Really? Does the consumer guarantees act really state

that an ISP must
> >>provide a newsfeed? I doubt it.

> >
> >
> > Well, "Allistar", the Act requires that products must

conform with the
> > reasonable expectations of the consumer.
> >
> > As all other ISP's of note provide NNTP, it is therefore

reasonable to
> > expect it from Orcon. And it must also be of

merchantable quality.
> >
> > If they do not wish to, they must list such an exception

prominently, also
> > in accordance with the Act.
> >

>
> I'd love to see that try and hold up.
> ISP's don't have to provide a newsfeed at all.
> reemmber that orcon probably have 100 newsfeed posters at

most our of
> how many thousand customers? so its a joke to see its a

consumer
> expectatio for an isp to have a newsfeed, who are you

trying to kid?
>
> even some isp's dont offer email services.
>
> Remember that an isp's primary role is simply to offer

intneret access.
>


BS.!! Thats like buying a car with no seats..the expectation
of the better informed internet users feel it their due to
have all services at any ISP.
I seriously dispute your claim the an ISP does not supply an
email service, this is a basic and integral part of the
internet experience.
And I suggest to any others if the feed you get from your
ISP is inadequate then dump the pricks.!!!
If people were to vote with their feet then Im sure it will
open up the eyes of these lame arse ISP's that treat users
as a ****ing joke.
Its all about money to them..the less they pay for their
feed the worse the range of the newsgroups and the shorter
the retention times for posts.
So the less people bitch about it the status quo will remain
the same.

macca


 
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Dave - Dave.net.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
Brendan wrote:
>>ISP's don't have to provide a newsfeed at all.


> But if they don't, they must display the fact prominently as it is at
> variance with accepted practice.


**** man, I dont know what world you come from but I dont expect nntp
from any isp, it'd be nice to have, but by no means an expectation...
hell, it isn't even a loss leader, it's a loss trailer.

>>even some isp's dont offer email services.


> Which ones are they in New Zealand ?


>>Remember that an isp's primary role is simply to offer intneret access.


> It's becoming increasingly clear to me that you do not know what the ****
> you are talking about.


pot kettle brendan

--
Dave Hall
http://www.dave.net.nz
http://www.karyn.net.nz
 
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macca
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:24:18 +1300, Hmmm <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> Brendan wrote:
> > On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:58 +1300, Allistar wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>The Consumer's Guarantee's Act says it. All other

notable ISP's provide
> >>>one and it is now a consumer expectation.
> >>
> >>Really? Does the consumer guarantees act really state

that an ISP must
> >>provide a newsfeed? I doubt it.

> >
> >
> > Well, "Allistar", the Act requires that products must

conform with the
> > reasonable expectations of the consumer.
> >
> > As all other ISP's of note provide NNTP, it is therefore

reasonable to
> > expect it from Orcon. And it must also be of

merchantable quality.
> >
> > If they do not wish to, they must list such an exception

prominently, also
> > in accordance with the Act.
> >

>
> are you on crack? just because other companies offer a

product, does not
> mean your company has to.
>
> Does orcon have to offer a gaming server? if all other

isp's offer it?
> NO
>
> Does orcon have to offer an ftp server? no
> etc etc
>
>
> The role of an isp is simply to offer an internet

connection, the
> definition of ISP is that, or have didn't you realise what

those magical
> 3 letters stand for?


The only dick I see in this thread is you..pull your head
out of your arse and see the sunshine. Its apparent to me
that your have not an inkling as to the world of commerce
and the running of a business..if the ISP did not supply
those extras then they would not remain active long,
irrespective of whether thay are obliged to supply these
services or not..the point is moot.
macca



 
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Dave - Dave.net.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
macca wrote:
> I seriously dispute your claim the an ISP does not supply an
> email service, this is a basic and integral part of the
> internet experience.


I've seen one, but I can't remember it.
I thought it would be ideal for myself as I can get the other services
for favours elsewhere.

> And I suggest to any others if the feed you get from your
> ISP is inadequate then dump the pricks.!!!


indeed.

> If people were to vote with their feet then Im sure it will
> open up the eyes of these lame arse ISP's that treat users
> as a ****ing joke.


it would only be the mildly technical or above who will do that, the
rest dont seem to know how, look at Xtras customer numbers.

> Its all about money to them..the less they pay for their
> feed the worse the range of the newsgroups and the shorter
> the retention times for posts.


thats not strictly true.

> So the less people bitch about it the status quo will remain
> the same.


yeah, but ****, does it really matter? as in really truly matter in the
grand scheme of things?

--
Dave Hall
http://www.dave.net.nz
http://www.karyn.net.nz
 
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Allistar
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
Brendan wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:58 +1300, Allistar wrote:
>
>>> The Consumer's Guarantee's Act says it. All other notable ISP's provide
>>> one and it is now a consumer expectation.

>>
>> Really? Does the consumer guarantees act really state that an ISP must
>> provide a newsfeed? I doubt it.

>
> Well, "Allistar", the Act requires that products must conform with the
> reasonable expectations of the consumer.


Really "Brendan".

> As all other ISP's of note provide NNTP, it is therefore reasonable to
> expect it from Orcon. And it must also be of merchantable quality.
>
> If they do not wish to, they must list such an exception prominently, also
> in accordance with the Act.


Surely providing a feed would be an assumption on the consumers part as if
required it should be the consumer that ensures one is provided?

Allistar.

 
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Patrick Dunford
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
In article <wq0c7uvscbjg$(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Wed, 3 Nov
2004 11:53:35 +1300, Brendan <(E-Mail Removed)> says...

> It's becoming increasingly clear to me that you do not know what the ****
> you are talking about.


True...few people would have a track record to match Woger's...or yours.
 
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Patrick Dunford
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Tue, 02
Nov 2004 23:58:31 GMT, macca <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:13:39 +1300, Hmmm <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
> > Brendan wrote:
> > > On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:58 +1300, Allistar wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>>The Consumer's Guarantee's Act says it. All other

> notable ISP's provide
> > >>>one and it is now a consumer expectation.
> > >>
> > >>Really? Does the consumer guarantees act really state

> that an ISP must
> > >>provide a newsfeed? I doubt it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, "Allistar", the Act requires that products must

> conform with the
> > > reasonable expectations of the consumer.
> > >
> > > As all other ISP's of note provide NNTP, it is therefore

> reasonable to
> > > expect it from Orcon. And it must also be of

> merchantable quality.
> > >
> > > If they do not wish to, they must list such an exception

> prominently, also
> > > in accordance with the Act.
> > >

> >
> > I'd love to see that try and hold up.
> > ISP's don't have to provide a newsfeed at all.
> > reemmber that orcon probably have 100 newsfeed posters at

> most our of
> > how many thousand customers? so its a joke to see its a

> consumer
> > expectatio for an isp to have a newsfeed, who are you

> trying to kid?
> >
> > even some isp's dont offer email services.
> >
> > Remember that an isp's primary role is simply to offer

> intneret access.
> >

>
> BS.!! Thats like buying a car with no seats..the expectation
> of the better informed internet users feel it their due to
> have all services at any ISP.
> I seriously dispute your claim the an ISP does not supply an
> email service, this is a basic and integral part of the
> internet experience.
> And I suggest to any others if the feed you get from your
> ISP is inadequate then dump the pricks.!!!
> If people were to vote with their feet then Im sure it will
> open up the eyes of these lame arse ISP's that treat users
> as a ****ing joke.
> Its all about money to them..the less they pay for their
> feed the worse the range of the newsgroups and the shorter
> the retention times for posts.
> So the less people bitch about it the status quo will remain
> the same.


No, the fact is that ISPs supply a variety of services.

Some only supply webhosting, the company that I host my sites on does
offer email these days and even jetstream, but they started out as a
cheap webhost.

Another provider in the US that I use for a couple of sites doesn't
supply email, or news, or anything in fact except websites.

At a basic level, I would expect that all an ISP does is to provide some
sort of internet service. This could be a one or several of connectivity,
HTTP, news, email, ftp or web hosting services.

There are quite a few web site ISPs that don't provide FTP for people to
upload to their sites.

If a service is being used by only 10 customers then it is probably
uneconomic unless they increase user charges.

Orcon is spinning all sorts of freebies with no guarantee that they will
last. Remember the free ISPs? They were but a flash in the pan.

That said, if they are going to provide a news service they should
provide a reasonable one. But I think also that if they drop their news
service, it won't have much effect on their customer base.
 
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Patrick Dunford
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      11-03-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Wed, 03
Nov 2004 00:04:25 GMT, macca <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:24:18 +1300, Hmmm <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
> > Brendan wrote:
> > > On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:41:58 +1300, Allistar wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>>The Consumer's Guarantee's Act says it. All other

> notable ISP's provide
> > >>>one and it is now a consumer expectation.
> > >>
> > >>Really? Does the consumer guarantees act really state

> that an ISP must
> > >>provide a newsfeed? I doubt it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, "Allistar", the Act requires that products must

> conform with the
> > > reasonable expectations of the consumer.
> > >
> > > As all other ISP's of note provide NNTP, it is therefore

> reasonable to
> > > expect it from Orcon. And it must also be of

> merchantable quality.
> > >
> > > If they do not wish to, they must list such an exception

> prominently, also
> > > in accordance with the Act.
> > >

> >
> > are you on crack? just because other companies offer a

> product, does not
> > mean your company has to.
> >
> > Does orcon have to offer a gaming server? if all other

> isp's offer it?
> > NO
> >
> > Does orcon have to offer an ftp server? no
> > etc etc
> >
> >
> > The role of an isp is simply to offer an internet

> connection, the
> > definition of ISP is that, or have didn't you realise what

> those magical
> > 3 letters stand for?

>
> The only dick I see in this thread is you..pull your head
> out of your arse and see the sunshine. Its apparent to me
> that your have not an inkling as to the world of commerce
> and the running of a business..if the ISP did not supply
> those extras then they would not remain active long,
> irrespective of whether thay are obliged to supply these
> services or not..the point is moot.


There are ISPs around that offer only specialised services such as
webhosting. The fact is that the ISP will supply whatever services they
can make money off.
 
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