«

In article <> in nz.comp on Fri, 29 Oct
2004 21:20:46 +1300, Ju <> says...
>
> "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
> news:. nz...
> > In article <> in nz.comp on Thu, 28 Oct
> > 2004 20:38:12 +1300, Ju <> says...
> > >
> > > "Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message >
> > > > Not true, I have a machine slightly obscure, Linux have drivers but
> not
> > > > ones that actually work.
> > >
> > > What hardware are you talking about?
> >
> > CS4232 sound chip. Works fine in Windows. The Debian / Vector drivers for
> > this don't work.
>
> And this sound chip was on what make of sound card?
> And why did you buy such a sound card?

It's an HP card that came with the computer.

Hi there,

Max Burke wrote:
>> Chris Wilkinson scribbled:
>
>>> Max Burke wrote:
>>> An if YOU have to install and configure Linux for them then it is
>>> NOT a good alternative for the average Windows user; I can just
>>> imagine an average Windows user trying to get their head around
>>> configuring IP Tables, configuring ports, Linux command line syntax,
>>> etc, etc, etc..
>
>> You don't have to use a CLI to configure iptables Max. I'm running it
>> and have NEVER looked at the config scripts with a text editor...there
>> are heaps of GUI apps available to configure it.
>
>> GUI programs for most anything I need to configure, so your conclusion
>> that the average Win Joe will need to grow a brain cell to figure out
>> the CLI in linux is somewhat erroneous, or perhaps you're just trying
>> to mislead those that don't know any better into thinking linux is a
>> crock of **** that can only be configed by typing inane **** into an
>> editor...I do wonder that sometimes...
>
> There is nothing wrong with Linux Chris. I have four (that's FOUR)
> versions on CD rom here that I can run any time I like from CD Rom.
>
> Thing is they're just Linux clones of Windows. I already have Windows
> installed on my computer that does all that I need. Why would I need to

Which are they? Mandrake, Simply Mepis, Knoppix, Linare, Red Hat,
Debian, Lycoris, and Lindows have all seen time on my home beast,
but none of them feel like Windows. I can skin them with Windows
wallpapers, icons, widgets, bidgets, and everything else that will
make Windows look like it is, but it never 'feels' the same...

> change to and have to 'learn' another OS that works the same way my
> current OS?

The idea of Linux being a 'familiar' OS, without the security issues
and cost, is fine to me. I think that important too in light of the fact
too many Windows users obviously are still clueless about security. The
idea of promoting an OS to them that they don't need to worry as much
about security is a good one IMHO...

> That is also the reasoning of most average Windows users when asked if
> they'd like to swap to a GUI based versions of Linux.

Everyone I've shown Linux to has been hooked. Try before you buy is
important, which is why I personally think the hard-nose OEM contracts
Microsoft impose upon PC dealers are somewhat monopolistic in nature
and worthy of Commerce Commission investigation. Microsoft is a fine
one for trying to hide their biggest competitors from public view...

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch, New Zealand.
Remove spamblocker to send replies direct to my email...

In article <> in nz.comp on Sat, 30 Oct
2004 17:21:26 +1300, Chris Wilkinson <>
says...

> Everyone I've shown Linux to has been hooked. Try before you buy is
> important, which is why I personally think the hard-nose OEM contracts
> Microsoft impose upon PC dealers are somewhat monopolistic in nature
> and worthy of Commerce Commission investigation. Microsoft is a fine
> one for trying to hide their biggest competitors from public view...

Exclusive dealer contracts are perfectly legal in this country and are
used by a large number of companies.

"Chris Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:...

>
> They might be legal but if you consider the laws in this country that
> doesn't mean they're ethical. Unless you build your own system from the
> beginning, invariably (with only a small few exceptions) you are tied
> into buying one with an OEM version of Windows pre-installed, even if
> you don't want that...consumers are meant to have choice, but you think
> any PC retailer can chop $200 off the price of a built-up system by not
> selling Windows with it?...not if M$ have anything to do with it...
>

They can though, I've bought several that way

"Chris Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
news:...

>
> I don't agree fully. Market share is a part of it, but the fact is if I
> walked into a PC retailer and said 'can I have an OS-less PC?' they are
> generally not able to do so. I've asked many, and they're just not able
> to remove Windows and reduce the price of the PC because that would
> break the contract with M$ they've agreed to...
>
> If you bought a car, and wanted a basic model would you still pay the
> extra for leather/climate air/bodykit etc...because you were told they
> 'had' to install those things to the basic car before selling? Its the
> same deal, and its unfair that those wishing to install an alternative
> OS should still have to pay for Windows when they buy the PC...
>

You can't order a car without a battery and tyres because you can supply
your own
I guess their answer is that its a package that they are offering.
In the case of a laptop they are assembled with pre imaged drives
Its difficult to buy a laptop without a hard drive too.

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:20:31 +1300, Patrick Dunford wrote:

> Exclusive dealer contracts are perfectly legal in this country and are
> used by a large number of companies.

And should be illegal.

--

.... Brendan

"Those who control their passions do so because their passions are weak enough to be controlled." -- William Blake

Note: All my comments are copyright 31/10/2004 12:35:27 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.

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"Patrick Dunford" <> wrote in message
news:. nz...
> > And this sound chip was on what make of sound card?
> > And why did you buy such a sound card?
>
> It's an HP card that came with the computer.

Which is why I don't buy HP/Compaq/Dell/
The PC company(yes I know they have gone bust) computers, terrible hardware.

"Max Burke" <> wrote in message
news:w7ogd.23960$...
> > Chris Wilkinson scribbled:
> Linux is more secure and bug free than windows you say? That's not what I
> see when I look at numerous Linux support websites. It's not much better
> than Windows on that score (as an 'out of the box' defalt install) unless
> and until any/all individual users are prepared to 'get involved' with the
> technical aspects of configuring the OS.

Well I have my mother and sister using Linux, they are
relatively computer illiterate, I needed an operating system that they
wouldn't have to do any configuring themselves as they just wanted it for
email and star office.
As I am currently living in a different city I didn't want them to have
problems with viruses, worms, hack attacks, system instability. If I had put
windows on
aside from the huge expense I would have been frequently on the phone with
them trying to fix their latest
problem which would have more often than not resulted
in them having to wait until the next time I came to visit.

Hi there,

Patrick Dunford wrote:
> In article <> in nz.comp on Sat, 30 Oct
> 2004 17:21:26 +1300, Chris Wilkinson <>
> says...
>
>>Everyone I've shown Linux to has been hooked. Try before you buy is
>>important, which is why I personally think the hard-nose OEM contracts
>>Microsoft impose upon PC dealers are somewhat monopolistic in nature
>>and worthy of Commerce Commission investigation. Microsoft is a fine
>>one for trying to hide their biggest competitors from public view...
>
> Exclusive dealer contracts are perfectly legal in this country and are
> used by a large number of companies.

They might be legal but if you consider the laws in this country that
doesn't mean they're ethical. Unless you build your own system from the
beginning, invariably (with only a small few exceptions) you are tied
into buying one with an OEM version of Windows pre-installed, even if
you don't want that...consumers are meant to have choice, but you think
any PC retailer can chop $200 off the price of a built-up system by not
selling Windows with it?...not if M$ have anything to do with it...

--
Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch, New Zealand.
Remove spamblocker to send replies direct to my email...

In article <> in nz.comp on Sun, 31 Oct
2004 20:54:22 +1300, Chris Wilkinson <>
says...
> Hi there,
>
> Patrick Dunford wrote:
> > In article <> in nz.comp on Sat, 30 Oct
> > 2004 17:21:26 +1300, Chris Wilkinson <>
> > says...
> >
> >>Everyone I've shown Linux to has been hooked. Try before you buy is
> >>important, which is why I personally think the hard-nose OEM contracts
> >>Microsoft impose upon PC dealers are somewhat monopolistic in nature
> >>and worthy of Commerce Commission investigation. Microsoft is a fine
> >>one for trying to hide their biggest competitors from public view...
> >
> > Exclusive dealer contracts are perfectly legal in this country and are
> > used by a large number of companies.
>
> They might be legal but if you consider the laws in this country that
> doesn't mean they're ethical. Unless you build your own system from the
> beginning, invariably (with only a small few exceptions) you are tied
> into buying one with an OEM version of Windows pre-installed, even if
> you don't want that...consumers are meant to have choice, but you think
> any PC retailer can chop $200 off the price of a built-up system by not
> selling Windows with it?...not if M$ have anything to do with it...

I don't have any problem with exclusive dealer contracts. They are used
in a large number of situations to sell all sorts of products from cars
to phones.

No one is tied to MS... there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from
selling Linux systems, or OS less systems - except the lack of market for
such things. Yes, market share does come into play - it's the same reason
why there are so few Apple Mac dealers either.