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Lawrence DčOliveiro
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      10-29-2004
In article <LAnfd.23175$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Max Burke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Lawrence DčOliveiro scribbled:

>
>>> In article <cliabj$20t$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> "Dorado" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>>> nick wrote:

>
>>>>> "Max Burke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>>> news:bz1fd.22948$(E-Mail Removed)...

>
>>>>>>> Enkidu wrote:
>>>>>>> Well that just depends on your area of expertise. And besides
>>>>>>> we're talking
>>>>>>> about Desktops here, and for the average user windows is far
>>>>>>> easier to setup
>>>>>>> for a given hardware configuration than Linux is.

>
>>>> Average users don't set up Windows

>
>>>>> Yes we do. All the time.

>
>>>> You are part of a small percentage
>>>> The majority have no idea what a driver is

>
>>> And Linux in a good alternative to these people because??

>
>> It can be set up for them with the basic functions they need (e-mail,
>> Web, Open Offce etc), and then they can be pretty much left to it for
>> the most part.

>
>It's average [windows] users setting it up *for THEMSELVES.*


Yeah, and they can set things up so easily for themselves that it only
takes an average of about 20 minutes online to get infected with a
virus, worm or some adware/spyware crap. It's so easy that there are
millions of Windows users out there entirely oblivious to the fact that
their machines have been turned into zombies that are doing nasty things
that they are completely unaware of.

Like I said above, Linux is a good alternative because I can set up
these basic functions, and then leave the users to it for the most part,
with very little concern for such unwanted infestations.
 
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Patrick Dunford
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      10-29-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Fri,
29 Oct 2004 17:20:08 +1300, Lawrence DčOliveiro <ldo@geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> says...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote:
> >>>Not true, I have a machine slightly obscure, Linux have drivers but not
> >>>ones that actually work.

> >
> >> Did the drivers come with source code?

> >
> >if you dont know what to do with the source code, does it matter if it
> >comes with it or not.

>
> Yes, because you could always pass it on to someone who does know what
> to do with it.
>
> So, the question again: did those drivers come with source code or not?


It's irrelevant, because there is no guarantee that those drivers will
work.

 
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Max Burke
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      10-29-2004
> Lawrence DčOliveiro scribbled:

>> Max Burke wrote:


>>> And that proves what?


> That Windows is not quite the king-of-the-hill of compatibility
> many assume it is.


>>> LBA is the accepted standard for large hard drives. Windows
>>> requires LBA. Linux uses a different system for accessing HDDs
>>> that doesn't require LBA.


>>> If only Windows were consistent in requiring LBA! But it turns out
>>> <http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/> that it's not: that it's quite
>>> possible to screw up Windows booting by altering information that
>>> it shouldn't even be looking at. Whereas Linux is not affected.


>> However the article (at the link above) clearly states which OS is
>> causes the problems, and what OS needs to be taught how to 'behave'
>> in a dual Linux/Windows boot situation.


> That's not what Patrick Dunford said (above): he said quite clearly
> that "LBA is the accepted standard for large hard drives. Windows
> requires LBA."


I'm commenting on what YOU say above *IN RELATION TO THE LINK TO THE ARTICLE
THAT YOU POSTED* not what Patrick Dunford says or claims.

snip rest of blaming Microsoft for a Linux Fedora bug.....

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http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

 
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Max Burke
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      10-29-2004
> Lawrence DčOliveiro scribbled:

>> Max Burke wrote:


>>>>>>>> Enkidu wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well that just depends on your area of expertise. And besides
>>>>>>>> we're talking
>>>>>>>> about Desktops here, and for the average user windows is far
>>>>>>>> easier to setup
>>>>>>>> for a given hardware configuration than Linux is.


> Average users don't set up Windows


>> Yes we do. All the time.


> You are part of a small percentage
> The majority have no idea what a driver is


>> And Linux in a good alternative to these people because??


> It can be set up for them with the basic functions they need
> (e-mail, Web, Open Offce etc), and then they can be pretty much
> left to it for the most part.


>> It's average [windows] users setting it up *for THEMSELVES.*


> Yeah, and they can set things up so easily for themselves that it only
> takes an average of about 20 minutes online to get infected with a
> virus, worm or some adware/spyware crap.


Of course. But then if they install the basic protections for for online
access *BEFORE* going on line they most often wont be...
Installing a firewall and antivirus package on windows is a lot easier than
it is on Linux.

> It's so easy that there are
> millions of Windows users out there entirely oblivious to the fact
> that their machines have been turned into zombies that are doing
> nasty things that they are completely unaware of.


Do you see anyone (least of all me) denying that?
Dont yor think it's 'interesting' that all of the above arrives at users
computers through servers and networks that run Linux/Unix most of the time,
and that those servers and networks are run by people who DO know how to
stop the above happening but dont see it as their responsibility to play a
part in preventing that happening?

But what has that got to do with your claim that averge Windows users DONT
set up Windows, and your claim that I'm not an average user?

> Like I said above, Linux is a good alternative because I can set up
> these basic functions, and then leave the users to it for the most
> part, with very little concern for such unwanted infestations.


But can they set it up for themselves????
Can they the configure Linux so it isn't open to attack themselves? Or do
you have to do all that for them as well?

If so, it kind of negates your argument that Linux is easy/easier for the
average user to set up and use than Windows is...

An if YOU have to install and configure Linux for them then it is NOT a good
alternative for the average Windows user; I can just imagine an average
Windows user trying to get their head around configuring IP Tables,
configuring ports, Linux command line syntax, etc, etc, etc..

BTW Microsoft has, with the release of SP2 for XP, has moved the average
Windows user towards being much 'safer' from online risks.

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RT
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2004

"Max Burke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5Rkgd.23902$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Dont yor think it's 'interesting' that all of the above arrives at users
> computers through servers and networks that run Linux/Unix most of the
> time, and that those servers and networks are run by people who DO know
> how to stop the above happening but dont see it as their responsibility to
> play a part in preventing that happening?
>


Scanning for Windows viruses on Unix and Linux servers is commonplace and
available from the usual AV vendors.
http://www.f-prot.com/
http://www.clamav.net/
http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/linux/linux.asp
http://www.ravantivirus.com/pages/isp.php
Its integrated into mailservers like qmail that usually handle ISP accounts


 
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Ju
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      10-29-2004

"E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
news:1098589776.431485@ftpsrv1...
> Millions of people have no problem using XP at all. If you wanted XP that
> much you'd buy the full retail version or get a PC that has it.


Millions huh? Most people have problems running windows, in fact any OS.
Who says I want it, I am just testing it for work who want
it, if it was my choice I would switch my whole work place to linux.

I had a pc that had it, got rid of it as fast as I could.


 
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Lawrence DčOliveiro
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
Patrick Dunford <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Fri,
>29 Oct 2004 17:20:08 +1300, Lawrence D1Oliveiro <ldo@geek-
>central.gen.new zealand> says...
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> >Lawrence D1Oliveiro wrote:
>> >>>Not true, I have a machine slightly obscure, Linux have drivers but not
>> >>>ones that actually work.
>> >
>> >> Did the drivers come with source code?
>> >
>> >if you dont know what to do with the source code, does it matter if it
>> >comes with it or not.

>>
>> Yes, because you could always pass it on to someone who does know what
>> to do with it.
>>
>> So, the question again: did those drivers come with source code or not?

>
>It's irrelevant, because there is no guarantee that those drivers will
>work.


Did those drivers come with source code or not?
 
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Lawrence DčOliveiro
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2004
In article <5Rkgd.23902$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Max Burke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Lawrence DčOliveiro scribbled:

>
>>> Max Burke wrote:

>
>>>>>>>>> Enkidu wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Well that just depends on your area of expertise. And besides
>>>>>>>>> we're talking
>>>>>>>>> about Desktops here, and for the average user windows is far
>>>>>>>>> easier to setup
>>>>>>>>> for a given hardware configuration than Linux is.

>
>> Average users don't set up Windows

>
>>> Yes we do. All the time.

>
>> You are part of a small percentage
>> The majority have no idea what a driver is

>
>>> And Linux in a good alternative to these people because??

>
>> It can be set up for them with the basic functions they need
>> (e-mail, Web, Open Offce etc), and then they can be pretty much
>> left to it for the most part.

>
>>> It's average [windows] users setting it up *for THEMSELVES.*

>
>> Yeah, and they can set things up so easily for themselves that it only
>> takes an average of about 20 minutes online to get infected with a
>> virus, worm or some adware/spyware crap.

>
>Of course. But then if they install the basic protections for for online
>access *BEFORE* going on line they most often wont be...
>Installing a firewall and antivirus package on windows is a lot easier than
>it is on Linux.


And yet most Windows users simply can't figure it out. Look at the
results of this random survey:
<http://news.com.com/Plague+carriers+...PC+infections/
2100-1029_3-5423306.html> -- 80% of the Windows PCs inspected were
infected with spyware. 60% didn't understand the difference between
antivirus software and firewalls.
 
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Ju
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Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2004

"Patrick Dunford" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed). nz...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Thu, 28 Oct
> 2004 20:38:12 +1300, Ju <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
> >
> > "Patrick Dunford" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message >
> > > Not true, I have a machine slightly obscure, Linux have drivers but

not
> > > ones that actually work.

> >
> > What hardware are you talking about?

>
> CS4232 sound chip. Works fine in Windows. The Debian / Vector drivers for
> this don't work.


And this sound chip was on what make of sound card?
And why did you buy such a sound card?


 
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RT
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      10-29-2004

"Ju" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Patrick Dunford" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed). nz...
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on Thu, 28 Oct
>> 2004 20:38:12 +1300, Ju <(E-Mail Removed)> says...
>> >
>> > "Patrick Dunford" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message >
>> > > Not true, I have a machine slightly obscure, Linux have drivers but

> not
>> > > ones that actually work.
>> >
>> > What hardware are you talking about?

>>
>> CS4232 sound chip. Works fine in Windows. The Debian / Vector drivers for
>> this don't work.

>
> And this sound chip was on what make of sound card?
> And why did you buy such a sound card?
>
>


Its the usual chip on a Thinkpad or a Tosh Tecra, works fine with ALSA
http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=cs4232
ALSA on Debian requires a bit of persistence though


 
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