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America wins right to extradite Australian pirate

 
 
samg
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2004
'New Zealand software pirates risk extradition to the United States following
a ground-breaking ruling against an Australian man accused of pirating
software, games and music worth up to US$50 million.

Mark Kelly, senior associate at Auckland's Simpson Grierson, said the Hew
Raymond Griffiths case in Australia confirmed that people based in one
country and accused of software piracy could be brought to justice in another
under extradition law.'

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...toryID=3589541

Geez whats next?
 
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Matthew Poole
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      09-07-2004
In article <Xns955DA7DD4DB1Dsamg@203.97.37.6>, samg <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>'New Zealand software pirates risk extradition to the United States following
>a ground-breaking ruling against an Australian man accused of pirating
>software, games and music worth up to US$50 million.
>
>Mark Kelly, senior associate at Auckland's Simpson Grierson, said the Hew
>Raymond Griffiths case in Australia confirmed that people based in one
>country and accused of software piracy could be brought to justice in another
>under extradition law.'
>
>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...toryID=3589541
>
>Geez whats next?


Under a National government, a modification of copyright law to make all
copying a criminal offence, not just copying done "in the course of a
business", and punishable by several years in jail.
With that little detail out of the way, any person who breaks copyright
law would be up for a free trip to the US, and accomodation courtesy of
the US government.

Too cynical? Not the way Don's been greasing up to the United States of
Corporations :/

The Extradition Act labels a person as "extraditable" if the maximum
penalty is at least a year in prison, and if the crime with which they
have been charged was a crime under NZ law at the time of the offence,
with a maximum penalty of at least a year in prison.

--
Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
"Veni, vidi, velcro...
I came, I saw, I stuck around"

My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
 
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Bret
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      09-07-2004
On 7 Sep 2004 16:31:26 +1200, samg <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>'New Zealand software pirates risk extradition to the United States following
>a ground-breaking ruling against an Australian man accused of pirating
>software, games and music worth up to US$50 million.
>
>Mark Kelly, senior associate at Auckland's Simpson Grierson, said the Hew
>Raymond Griffiths case in Australia confirmed that people based in one
>country and accused of software piracy could be brought to justice in another
>under extradition law.'
>
>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...toryID=3589541
>
>Geez whats next?


He was party to offences commited in the US.
He wasn't charged in Australia.
 
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Bruce Sinclair
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      09-07-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Peter) was seen to type:
(snip)
>This begs the question of whether the USA courts will allow its
>citizens to be extradited to NZ or Oz, or whether it will enforce
>judgements of our courts.


I guess "very unlikely". They have already exempted themselves from
warcrimes ... how much easier will it be for the small stuff ?



Bruce


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyones fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, Im one of Us. I must be.
Ive certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. Were always one of Us. Its Them that do
the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
 
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Peter
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      09-07-2004
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 04:56:14 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Matthew Poole)
wrote:


>>Geez whats next?

>
>Under a National government, a modification of copyright law to make all
>copying a criminal offence, not just copying done "in the course of a
>business", and punishable by several years in jail.
>With that little detail out of the way, any person who breaks copyright
>law would be up for a free trip to the US, and accomodation courtesy of
>the US government.
>
>Too cynical? Not the way Don's been greasing up to the United States of
>Corporations :/
>
>The Extradition Act labels a person as "extraditable" if the maximum
>penalty is at least a year in prison, and if the crime with which they
>have been charged was a crime under NZ law at the time of the offence,
>with a maximum penalty of at least a year in prison.
>

There was a slightly similar case a few years ago where a failed
British academic flame-baited on sci.physics and then took defamation
action against those responding in a careless manner. He also
discovered that it was very easy to 'shake down' people in NZ, etc
where it is pretty easy for overseas people to enforce judgements in
NZ courts. The cost of NZ'ers defending defamation action in British
courts would be horrendously expensive hence he could win judgements
thre virtually by default and he had a sufficiently sized war chest to
lodge a 'John Doe' suit then subpoena a NZ ISP or organisation (eg
university) to yield the identity of the person he was after.

This begs the question of whether the USA courts will allow its
citizens to be extradited to NZ or Oz, or whether it will enforce
judgements of our courts.

Interestingly, the US President leaned on Singapore a few years ago
concerning a young American caught scratching cars with a stone.
Being the pragmmatists they are, the Singaporeans yielded silghtly,
but not as much as the Americans would have liked.

 
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Bruce Sinclair
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-07-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bret <(E-Mail Removed)> was seen to type:
(snip)
>It's a moot point, the guy was party to an offence commited IN the
>USA.


Any idea what 'being a party to' means in this case ? ... and could it
be extended (the logical outcome of precedents) to being much less of
a party to in the future ?


Bruce


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyones fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, Im one of Us. I must be.
Ive certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. Were always one of Us. Its Them that do
the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
 
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Evil Bastard
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-08-2004
samg wrote:
> 'New Zealand software pirates risk extradition to the United States following
> a ground-breaking ruling against an Australian man accused of pirating
> software, games and music worth up to US$50 million.
>
> Mark Kelly, senior associate at Auckland's Simpson Grierson, said the Hew
> Raymond Griffiths case in Australia confirmed that people based in one
> country and accused of software piracy could be brought to justice in another
> under extradition law.'
>
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...toryID=3589541
>
> Geez whats next?


One realistic scenario I can think of - a programmer in NZ who
designs/writes a program in a way which is totally legal in NZ, and
which is based totally on his/her own inventions, but which
inadvertantly breaches patents in USA.

Or, writes a program to perform data format conversion in a way totally
legal within NZ, but which breaches some bizarre interpretation of DMCA
in USA

Less realistic - someone here who puts up a website criticising China,
in a way which breaches Chinese law, but is totally legal in NZ.

--
Cheers
EB

--

One who is not a conservative by age 20 has no brain.
One who is not a liberal by age 40 has no heart.
 
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Bret
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-08-2004
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:03:33 +1200, Evil Bastard <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>samg wrote:
>> 'New Zealand software pirates risk extradition to the United States following
>> a ground-breaking ruling against an Australian man accused of pirating
>> software, games and music worth up to US$50 million.
>>
>> Mark Kelly, senior associate at Auckland's Simpson Grierson, said the Hew
>> Raymond Griffiths case in Australia confirmed that people based in one
>> country and accused of software piracy could be brought to justice in another
>> under extradition law.'
>>
>> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydispl...toryID=3589541
>>
>> Geez whats next?

>
>One realistic scenario I can think of - a programmer in NZ who
>designs/writes a program in a way which is totally legal in NZ, and
>which is based totally on his/her own inventions, but which
>inadvertantly breaches patents in USA.
>
>Or, writes a program to perform data format conversion in a way totally
>legal within NZ, but which breaches some bizarre interpretation of DMCA
>in USA
>
>Less realistic - someone here who puts up a website criticising China,
>in a way which breaches Chinese law, but is totally legal in NZ.
>


It's a moot point, the guy was party to an offence commited IN the
USA.


 
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Peter
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-08-2004
On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:03:33 +1200, Evil Bastard <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>One realistic scenario I can think of - a programmer in NZ who
>designs/writes a program in a way which is totally legal in NZ, and
>which is based totally on his/her own inventions, but which
>inadvertantly breaches patents in USA.
>
>Or, writes a program to perform data format conversion in a way totally
>legal within NZ, but which breaches some bizarre interpretation of DMCA
>in USA
>
>Less realistic - someone here who puts up a website criticising China,
>in a way which breaches Chinese law, but is totally legal in NZ.
>

AFAIK to be extradited your activity needs to be a criminal one that
contravenes NZ law if comitted in the NZ context, as well as being an
offence in the country seeking extradition. Blatant copyright piracy
meets this criterion. Would not apply to patent breaches as this is a
civil matter.

You cannot be extradited for civil matters, but overseas judgements
may be enforceable (and have so been) in NZ. This is especially so
with contract law. A Kiwi may well need to front up to an overseas
court to avoid losing by default.

 
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Bruce Sinclair
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-08-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bret <(E-Mail Removed)> was seen to type:
>On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 23:32:46 GMT,
>(E-Mail Removed) (Bruce Sinclair) wrote:
>
>>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Bret <(E-Mail Removed)> was

> seen to type:
>>(snip)
>>>It's a moot point, the guy was party to an offence commited IN the
>>>USA.

>>
>>Any idea what 'being a party to' means in this case ? ... and could it
>>be extended (the logical outcome of precedents) to being much less of
>>a party to in the future ?
>>

>That's always going to be the danger Bruce.
>I see the danger and doubt our governments ability to resist
>See below how Griffiths is considered to be a party.
>
>Griffiths has been charged in the US with conspiracy to infringe
>copyright and copyright infringement, for reproducing without
>authority and distributing software protected by copyright on the
>internet.
>
>The US alleges that Griffiths was the ringleader of an internet group
>called DrinkorDie which allegedly worked from a computer network at
>Boston's Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Griffiths helped to
>control access to the network, though it is not alleged that he made
>money from his activities.


Yeah ... see what you mean. "helped" and "alleged". Bugger.



Bruce


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyones fault.
If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, Im one of Us. I must be.
Ive certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
of themselves as one of Them. Were always one of Us. Its Them that do
the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)
 
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