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Data Projectors - APM

 
 
frederick
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      08-17-2004

"Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
newsan.2004.08.17.04.21.48.662044@_yahoo.co.nz.. .
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:07:32 +1200, frederick wrote:
>
> >
> > I was looking at methods to simply detect and overrride windows apm
> > settings. IMO it is a pain to have to consider and change settings

for
> > screensaver, sleep/standby, and monitor power if using a laptop for
> > display via a data projector, and then set them back to normal

later. It
> > should be a "one click" job to override / reset. I wondered whether

the
> > monitor on/off functions might have use for unattended display - not

that
> > I imagine there is great appeal in leaving a few thousand $$ of gear
> > "unattended" too long.

> I agree on the one click, but I have no idea how on windows.
>

There are windows API functions thet send a message to running processes
that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode /
power off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until the
program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell windows to
hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend api
functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too
difficult.

> Not so sure about the unattended comment, could be handy for trade

shows
> or leaving a Doom 3 scene going to frighten the cleaners .
>

That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued important
task - rather than Doom3
> >
> > Patrick D suggests that short cycles may shorten the life of the

lamps.
> > That makes sense. The "estimated life" quoted by the manufacturer
> > typically makes a point of stating that lamp life is an estimate,

based
> > on environmental and usage conditions, but generally don't go on to
> > explain what those conditions are. I expect that he is right - but

is
> > there some data somewhere to show that this has been tested? Would

2000
> > one hour sessions be a problem, or would 20,000 six minute sessions

be
> > the problem?

> We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours a

day.
>

So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector APM
support) be of use?
Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred bucks a
day in lamp costs.
>
> Tough to know, the other problem is they degrade ( at about 80%

roughly of
> life span ) rather than blow, so knowing when to replace the bulb

might
> not be so easy.
>
> From what I got told turning on/off is not great, but shutting off (
> pulling the cable ) is what they really hate, they run pretty hot &

like
> to be cooled down.



>
> Nigel
>
>



 
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Patrick Dunford
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      08-17-2004
In article <pan.2004.08.17.04.27.05.25210@_yahoo.co.nz> in nz.comp on
Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:27:05 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> says...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:59 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:
>
>
> > Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
> > yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by a
> > metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of 1000
> > hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily decline
> > throughout the life of the bulb.

> Mmm, not so sure about the steady decline, I though they stayed pretty
> constant for about 80% of life & then decline. That was what I got told
> anyways.


I don't know for sure, except that there is a point called a half life
which is supposed to be the point at which the bulb is 50% of its new
brightness.

 
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Nigel
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      08-17-2004
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:48:31 +1200, frederick wrote:


> There are windows API functions thet send a message to running processes
> that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode / power
> off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
> responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until the
> program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell windows to
> hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend api
> functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too difficult.

Makes sense, though you would want to be sure your app got to them before
Powerpoint would you not ? ( Assuming it was Powerpoint you were using ).

> That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
> convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued important
> task - rather than Doom3

<grin>.

>> We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours a

> day.
>>

> So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector APM
> support) be of use?
> Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred bucks a
> day in lamp costs.

The problem was the damn thing would not restart in the same state it
closed down. Whoops, I'll rephrase that, there were hardware issues which
meant that it could not consistently restart in the state it was shutdown
in & also it tended to accentuate variations between cubes.
We were also told the bulb life would be reduced, but we would have tried
but for the umm hardware idiosyncricies.

Nigel
 
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frederick
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      08-17-2004
"Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
newsan.2004.08.17.07.00.28.290742@_yahoo.co.nz.. .
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:48:31 +1200, frederick wrote:
>
>
> > There are windows API functions thet send a message to running

processes
> > that windows is going to shut down / log off / go to suspend mode /

power
> > off the monitor / activate the screensaver. These messages can be
> > responded to so that a program can tell windows to hang off until

the
> > program tidies itself up. This can be used (abused?) to tell

windows to
> > hang off indefinitely. So making a program to schedule or suspend

api
> > functions, say from a click on a systray icon shouldn't be too

difficult.
> Makes sense, though you would want to be sure your app got to them

before
> Powerpoint would you not ? ( Assuming it was Powerpoint you were

using ).

No, with the exception of intercepting the message that the screensaver
is about to start, the messages can be received by a process running in
the background. The screensaver can be dealt to via the registry if
this is needed. In any case when running a *.pps (show) file the
screensaver is disabled. I'm not sure if this may be an XP or office XP
+ feature, because I can recall having screensaver problems with W98 and
earlier powerpoint versions.

>
> > That was my thought - but maybe a motivational video presentation to
> > convince the cleaners that what they were doing was a valued

important
> > task - rather than Doom3

> <grin>.
>
> >> We left the cubes on 24x7, but they were in use for around 14 hours

a
> > day.
> >>

> > So would a program to schedule power on / off (assuming projector

APM
> > support) be of use?
> > Based on your 42 cube wall, that should save a couple of hundred

bucks a
> > day in lamp costs.

> The problem was the damn thing would not restart in the same state it
> closed down. Whoops, I'll rephrase that, there were hardware issues

which
> meant that it could not consistently restart in the state it was

shutdown
> in & also it tended to accentuate variations between cubes.
> We were also told the bulb life would be reduced, but we would have

tried
> but for the umm hardware idiosyncricies.
>
> Nigel


From what I have seen, projectors come with options to save settings
when shut down, or not save the settings and revert to default when
switched off (as opposed to standby) - much like digital camera
firmware. That would cause problems if some or all projectors were
tweaked, but some "forgot" settings when switched off.

How did you get 42 screens coordinated? It sounds like serious hardware
would be needed.


 
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Nigel
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      08-17-2004
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:03:48 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:

> In article <pan.2004.08.17.04.27.05.25210@_yahoo.co.nz> in nz.comp on Tue,
> 17 Aug 2004 16:27:05 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> says...
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:59 +1200, Patrick Dunford wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Why are the lamps so expensive? Compared to a halogen light, which is
>> > yellowish and has a life of only about 50 hours, the light produced by
>> > a metal halide lamp is very white and they typically have a life of
>> > 1000 hours or more, although the actual light output will steadily
>> > decline throughout the life of the bulb.

>> Mmm, not so sure about the steady decline, I though they stayed pretty
>> constant for about 80% of life & then decline. That was what I got told
>> anyways.

>
> I don't know for sure, except that there is a point called a half life
> which is supposed to be the point at which the bulb is 50% of its new
> brightness.

You're right I think, there are differing bulbs & the ones we used were
different to consumer ones. Consumer bulbs have 1-2000 hour life, ours
were around 6,000 + .
The 1-2k hour bulbs I believe drop off but are more linear than the 6k
ones.
I've learnt a heap about bulbs more than I wanted too, but interestingly
you can get xenon powered cubes now ( recently released ).

Nigel


 
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Nigel
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      08-17-2004
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:42:05 +1200, frederick wrote:

> From what I have seen, projectors come with options to save settings when
> shut down, or not save the settings and revert to default when switched
> off (as opposed to standby) - much like digital camera firmware. That
> would cause problems if some or all projectors were tweaked, but some
> "forgot" settings when switched off.
>
> How did you get 42 screens coordinated? It sounds like serious hardware
> would be needed.

Yeah kinda, the physical distortion issue is not so bad, just takes time,
but it doesn't change.

The real problem is colour, I've done that two different ways, did a 21
cube wall & basically with it, you attached a probe to the cube which did
a light output equalisation pass first, then a R,G,G pass to match gamma
and colour. It was ok, though the colour temperature was always a problem.

The other wall was 42 cubes & it was done by eye, robot camera & varying
video sources. The hardest part was they were lighting daylight, something
like 3k kelvin & the wall was 6k ( the numbers could be out, the ratio
which was the problem is about right ), so we had to suck all the blue out
& pump the red as high as possible, basically screwing with the colour
gamut it could display & making yellow/orange nigh on impossible to get
right.

In the end the biggest issue is colour temperature differential
between the cubes or projector & studio lights, which is what killed TVNZ
when they used projectors I think, though projectors should work they seem
to be more of a pain than cubes, not sure why ( this is TV studio usage
I'm talking ).

Nigel
 
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Craig Shore
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      08-17-2004
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:

>> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home user
>> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the hour.

>50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
>we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
>hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
>offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.


One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
materials used in them, or is most of it profit?


 
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Nigel
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      08-17-2004
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:05:04 +1200, Craig Shore wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home
>>> user would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the
>>> hour.

>>50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
>>we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
>>hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
>>offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

>
> One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
> materials used in them, or is most of it profit?

I'm not entirely sure, they are lamps not bulbs, not sure what difference
that makes .
My guess is volume & material, there does not seem to be a standard
enclosure & the materials & manufacturing can't be cheap, lethal
combination.
Also if you look at lamps for car's nowadays they are not real cheap
either ( though alot better life span ), I know someone who was up for
$1600USD for new lamps, turned out her car was a magnet for headlight lamp
thieves .

Nigel
 
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frederick
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      08-17-2004
"Craig Shore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz>

wrote:
>
> >> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a

home user
> >> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the

hour.
> >50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors

but
> >we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around

2,500
> >hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even

for
> >offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

>
> One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it

the
> materials used in them, or is most of it profit?
>

There seem to be enough manufacturers around these days, and projectors
are so common, that I thought there would be enough competition to keep
the lamp makers "honest" - within consumer expectation of commercial
honesty anyway. I would have thought that the $$ would be in
proprietary technology like Texas Instruments DSP - although I guess
competition from improving LCD technology serves to keep them honest
too. As much as the price horrifies me, it is about the same price as a
single "driving light" on a subaru legacy, yet worth more IMO.


 
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Patrick Dunford
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      08-17-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)> in nz.comp on
Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:05:04 +1200, Craig Shore <(E-Mail Removed)>
says...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:35:25 +1200, Nigel <sgidude_@_yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>
> >> The bulb cost of about 50c / hour isn't bad IMO - though maybe a home user
> >> would want to glue a piggy bank to the machine, and feed it by the hour.

> >50c an hour seems a bit high actually, I'm not sure about projectors but
> >we were at about $500USD for a bulb on cubes & they lasted around 2,500
> >hours. It starts adding up for a 42 cube video wall mind you & even for
> >offices if you have 20+ projectors in the building.

>
> One thing i've always wondered, why are the bulbs so expensive? Is it the
> materials used in them, or is most of it profit?


They have to be white, a halogen lamp used in say an overhead projector
is yellowish and has a life of just 50 hours, these things have a much
longer life.

But that still doesn't really explain to me why someone in China can't
turn them out for $50 each, unless maybe they are really hard to make.
The output is quite high on the other hand, I don't know how it compares
with the halogen.

We had a projector where the bulb when the power was turned down, about
half the time it would refuse to go on and the projector would just shut
itself down again. When they checked they found the bulb housing had a
crack in it. Not sure why that stuffed it, but replacing the bulb solved
the problem.
 
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