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Jetstarter to get the chop

 
 
Dave - Dave.net.nz
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      07-28-2004
Gavin Stephens wrote:
> But the bandwidth part... so if you are uploading at full hog it definately
> restricted the download speed to almost the exact same as the upload speeds
> by the sounds of others experiments aswell. The simple advertisement on
> Xtra's site makes it seem like it's always 256kbps download and 128 upload.
> Not quite the performance I was thinking of.


This is the same no matter what speed connection you have.

If you max out the connection outbound, there is no way that ack packets
can get back to the server, for the incoming traffic.

Its like two one way streets, where one car has to go back for every 20
cars going in.
If there is congestion, the one car can't get back, and so the incoming
must slow.

--
Dave Hall
http://www.dave.net.nz
 
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EMB
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      07-28-2004
Gavin Stephens wrote:
>
> But the bandwidth part... so if you are uploading at full hog it definately
> restricted the download speed to almost the exact same as the upload speeds
> by the sounds of others experiments aswell. The simple advertisement on
> Xtra's site makes it seem like it's always 256kbps download and 128 upload.
> Not quite the performance I was thinking of.
>

Gavin

Even 512K up and 256K down, if you saturate the upload bandwidth the
ACK's still won't get through and you still won't get a 256K download.
The problem isn't the transmission rates, it's that the pipe is full.
As others have mentioned, a little bandwidth shaping at your end and all
should run well.

--
EMB
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Gavin Stephens
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      07-28-2004
Yeah never though of it that way. Least with 256kbps symetric, even when
maxed out, the download should drop in half should it? Xtra forget joe
bloggs still using the Internet... and he things 256 down means ok my
uploads will be slower, but didn't know it would make my downloads as slow
as my upload speed, rather than just be a little slower.

"Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_dave.net.nz> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Gavin Stephens wrote:
> > But the bandwidth part... so if you are uploading at full hog it

definately
> > restricted the download speed to almost the exact same as the upload

speeds
> > by the sounds of others experiments aswell. The simple advertisement on
> > Xtra's site makes it seem like it's always 256kbps download and 128

upload.
> > Not quite the performance I was thinking of.

>
> This is the same no matter what speed connection you have.
>
> If you max out the connection outbound, there is no way that ack packets
> can get back to the server, for the incoming traffic.
>
> Its like two one way streets, where one car has to go back for every 20
> cars going in.
> If there is congestion, the one car can't get back, and so the incoming
> must slow.
>
> --
> Dave Hall
> http://www.dave.net.nz



 
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theseus
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      07-28-2004

"Gavin Stephens" <(E-Mail Removed)_no.co.nz> wrote in message
news:rzWNc.6433$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Yeah never though of it that way. Least with 256kbps symetric, even when
> maxed out, the download should drop in half should it? Xtra forget joe
> bloggs still using the Internet... and he things 256 down means ok my
> uploads will be slower, but didn't know it would make my downloads as slow
> as my upload speed, rather than just be a little slower.
>



ADSL means Assymetrical Digital Subscriber Line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSL
Its specifically designed for telephone subscriber consumer end use, not
uploads.


 
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Dave - Dave.net.nz
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      07-28-2004
Gavin Stephens wrote:
> Yeah never though of it that way. Least with 256kbps symetric, even when
> maxed out, the download should drop in half should it?


not in half, but you wont get *full* 256k in either direction, but damn
near it.

> Xtra forget joe
> bloggs still using the Internet... and he things 256 down means ok my
> uploads will be slower, but didn't know it would make my downloads as slow
> as my upload speed, rather than just be a little slower.


your probably not a "Joe Bloggs" user, as you seem to understand what
we're telling you, and most joe bloggs users that I know would have
rather glazed over eyes... I guess your making te cross over to geekdom

--
Dave Hall
http://www.dave.net.nz
 
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Gavin Stephens
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      07-28-2004
Think I've been in that stage of my life for the past 7 years. Pub's a good
place and so is my computer lol. I do other technical stuff for a living
with broadcast radio, but only simple stuff and very basic electronics. I
only ever got in to PC's because they took over the technical side of things
in a studio. PC networking though I don't understand a lot of, but I can
make sense of anything someone tries to explain.



"Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_dave.net.nz> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Gavin Stephens wrote:
> > Yeah never though of it that way. Least with 256kbps symetric, even when
> > maxed out, the download should drop in half should it?

>
> not in half, but you wont get *full* 256k in either direction, but damn
> near it.
>
> > Xtra forget joe
> > bloggs still using the Internet... and he things 256 down means ok my
> > uploads will be slower, but didn't know it would make my downloads as

slow
> > as my upload speed, rather than just be a little slower.

>
> your probably not a "Joe Bloggs" user, as you seem to understand what
> we're telling you, and most joe bloggs users that I know would have
> rather glazed over eyes... I guess your making te cross over to geekdom
>
> --
> Dave Hall
> http://www.dave.net.nz



 
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Gavin Stephens
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      07-28-2004
So If I was able to adjust the outgoing packet queue ie: shirnk it down,
rather than the bandwidth, would this make the ACK's more likely to get
through or just cause major poblems with other upload packets timing out or
corrupting other uploads?


"Gavin Stephens" <(E-Mail Removed)_no.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ViWNc.6427$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks for the link, I really appreciate it.
>
> "Route" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:1rz0nzvnh4qm4$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:23:42 +1200, Gavin Stephens wrote:
> >
> > > I've found that if you're uploading at full throttle ie: sending an

> email,
> > > while trying to download a file, it can serverly effect download

speeds
> to
> > > the same if not less than the upstream rate. I guess this is due to

> latency
> > > and round trip time for error correction for the download file? Anyone

> share
> > > some light on this?

> >
> > When the upstream is saturated, ack packets have to take their turn on

the
> > upstream with the other upstream packets. When the other upstream

packets
> > are as big as the downstream packets (eg FTP both ways), this

effectively
> > slows the downstream to about the same speed as the upstream.
> >
> > The extent of the problem at any time depends on some complex factors,
> > including depth of queuing, amount of backpressure, relative packet

sizes,
> > amount of saturation, number of connections, etc.
> >
> > For more information, see RFC 3449 "TCP Performance Implications of

> Network
> > Asymmetry". ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc3449.txt
> >
> > Cheers

>
>



 
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Craig Shore
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      07-29-2004
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:04:18 +1200, "Gavin Stephens" <(E-Mail Removed)_no.co.nz>
wrote:

>I thought about this, infact I tried it with bandwidthcontroller.com for
>windows.
>However, it also queues packets so it didn't work for me using a peice of
>software to avoid slowing down the downstream.


What about changing the software you're using to upload to something with built
in controls for speed?


 
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macca
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      08-01-2004
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:32:31 +1200, "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_here_dave.net.nz> wrote:
> Gavin Stephens wrote:
> > Yeah never though of it that way. Least with 256kbps symetric, even when
> > maxed out, the download should drop in half should it?

>
> not in half, but you wont get *full* 256k in either direction, but damn
> near it.
>
> > Xtra forget joe
> > bloggs still using the Internet... and he things 256 down means ok my
> > uploads will be slower, but didn't know it would make my downloads as slow
> > as my upload speed, rather than just be a little slower.

>
> your probably not a "Joe Bloggs" user, as you seem to understand what
> we're telling you, and most joe bloggs users that I know would have
> rather glazed over eyes... I guess your making te cross over to geekdom
>
> --
> Dave Hall
> http://www.dave.net.nz


FWIW. Simply put. one way up = 128. one way down = 256. Any variants retard either.
M


 
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