Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > NZ Computing > Screwing its users

Reply
Thread Tools

Screwing its users

 
 
thing
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
Im quite disgusted by this,

Interesting point came up in a recent discussion. A certain large ISP
are trying to claim they are one of the only 2 tier 1 ISPs in NZ. What
this means is, if a certain large ISP's customer wants to connect to a
NZ business, not only does a certain large ISP expect its own users to
pay volume/time, (which they do now) but its expects the nz business to
pay a certain large ISP as well, so a certain large ISP is looking for a
double payment, for one volume of traffic. Its argument(s) sound dubious
to me, its trying to claim traffic costs are increasing, when in fact
hardware is dropping in price and most links are simply "buy the
hardware link", without any volume charge (within the context of this
thread).

So over the next few months if a certain large ISP thinks its safe to
try, Im expecting a campaign to try and "recover" its "increasing"
expenses, by claining this is "fair". It will be interesting to see if
its just off its own customers or if its going to try and hit its
"peers" for extra money. If customers have any sense they will simply
leave and any businesses in question tell them to take a running jump....

Same old same old, try and form a monopolistic position so you can
charge way over the odds for what you deliver, even when what your
delivering is dropping in cost....throw some spin in on the truth so you
dont actually lie.....guess this is how spin doctors earn thier keep....

What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular &
successful web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that
ISP's customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go
the "long way"...

I get real tired of this lack of honesty....

regards

Thing

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
AD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:04:52 +1200, thing wrote:

> Im quite disgusted by this,
>
> Interesting point came up in a recent discussion. A certain large ISP are
> trying to claim they are one of the only 2 tier 1 ISPs in NZ.


<snip>

> What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular & successful
> web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that ISP's
> customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go the
> "long way"...
>
> I get real tired of this lack of honesty....


Are you talking about a certain Telco who I was about to sign up with for
a cable modem connection, but have since changed my mind after hearing
their plans? Those plans apparently include the removal of discounted
national traffic.

I can't get over the short sighted, pig headed arrogance of it
all. Wankers!! (even if it is the other one, that comment still applies)

I think I'll wait and see how this wholesale DSL lark turns out (not
expecting much) before I think about moving off dial up at home now. And
I'm advising all my friends, colleagues and clients the same.

Cheers
Anton
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
thing
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
AD. wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:04:52 +1200, thing wrote:
>
>
>>Im quite disgusted by this,
>>
>>Interesting point came up in a recent discussion. A certain large ISP are
>>trying to claim they are one of the only 2 tier 1 ISPs in NZ.

>
>
> <snip>
>
>>What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular & successful
>>web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that ISP's
>>customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go the
>>"long way"...
>>
>>I get real tired of this lack of honesty....

>
>
> Are you talking about a certain Telco who I was about to sign up with for
> a cable modem connection, but have since changed my mind after hearing
> their plans? Those plans apparently include the removal of discounted
> national traffic.
>
> I can't get over the short sighted, pig headed arrogance of it
> all. Wankers!! (even if it is the other one, that comment still applies)
>
> I think I'll wait and see how this wholesale DSL lark turns out (not
> expecting much) before I think about moving off dial up at home now. And
> I'm advising all my friends, colleagues and clients the same.
>
> Cheers
> Anton


url/link/thread?

Sounds like something Ive missed...

regards

Thing




 
Reply With Quote
 
thing
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
AD. wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:04:52 +1200, thing wrote:
>
>
>>Im quite disgusted by this,
>>
>>Interesting point came up in a recent discussion. A certain large ISP are
>>trying to claim they are one of the only 2 tier 1 ISPs in NZ.

>
>
> <snip>
>
>>What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular & successful
>>web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that ISP's
>>customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go the
>>"long way"...
>>
>>I get real tired of this lack of honesty....

>
>
> Are you talking about a certain Telco who I was about to sign up with for
> a cable modem connection, but have since changed my mind after hearing
> their plans? Those plans apparently include the removal of discounted
> national traffic.
>
> I can't get over the short sighted, pig headed arrogance of it
> all. Wankers!! (even if it is the other one, that comment still applies)
>
> I think I'll wait and see how this wholesale DSL lark turns out (not
> expecting much) before I think about moving off dial up at home now. And
> I'm advising all my friends, colleagues and clients the same.
>
> Cheers
> Anton


I once talked to the founder of Paradise, he stated then that the cost
of National traffic was in the region of 0.2-0.3 cent per meg, and that
was before Paradise joined Clear and enjoyed the "free" access to
Clear's backbone it now does. So if you telling me its all of a sudden
going to start costing the same as International then that is pure
monopolistic exploitation...

As a friend says, Clear / Telstra is just another telco.

regards

Thing









 
Reply With Quote
 
AD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:00:18 +1200, thing wrote:

> url/link/thread?
>
> Sounds like something Ive missed...


Just hearsay and rumours floating past on the nznog mailing list. All part
of TCs depeering in November apparently. It's been decided in Oz and
apparently the local outfit isn't that happy about it but orders is
orders. I'm not sure how concrete the plans are, but if people kick up a
big enough stink and they lose enough business - who knows, plans could
change.

Even if Telstra aren't planning that, they still need a kick up the arse!

BTW I'm not a subscriber to nznog, I just use http://www.gmane.org/ to
occasionally catch up on certain mailing lists with my news client to save
my inbox filling up. Quite handy really.

Cheers
Anton
 
Reply With Quote
 
thing
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
AD. wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:00:18 +1200, thing wrote:
>
>
>>url/link/thread?
>>
>>Sounds like something Ive missed...

>
>
> Just hearsay and rumours floating past on the nznog mailing list. All part
> of TCs depeering in November apparently. It's been decided in Oz and
> apparently the local outfit isn't that happy about it but orders is
> orders. I'm not sure how concrete the plans are, but if people kick up a
> big enough stink and they lose enough business - who knows, plans could
> change.
>
> Even if Telstra aren't planning that, they still need a kick up the arse!
>
> BTW I'm not a subscriber to nznog, I just use http://www.gmane.org/ to
> occasionally catch up on certain mailing lists with my news client to save
> my inbox filling up. Quite handy really.
>
> Cheers
> Anton


sounds like our two threads coincide...

same telco....

If they do...well I can think about moving back to dial up, I have
access to plenty of bandwidth at work so I should be able to hook into
that very cheaply.

regards

Thing

 
Reply With Quote
 
Dave - Dave.net.nz
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
thing wrote:
> What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular &
> successful web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that
> ISP's customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go
> the "long way"...


are you referring to the dropping of peering agreements by the two T's
in november? or something else?
 
Reply With Quote
 
steve
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
thing wrote:

> So over the next few months if a certain large ISP thinks its safe to
> try, Im expecting a campaign to try and "recover" its "increasing"
> expenses, by claining this is "fair". It will be interesting to see if
> its just off its own customers or if its going to try and hit its
> "peers" for extra money. If customers have any sense they will simply
> leave and any businesses in question tell them to take a running jump....


TelstraClear want to introduce the Aussie Internet model here.

In Australia, Telstra bought the privatised AARNET peering point a few years
back....and gained an effective monopoly on large-scale peering in
Australia. They charged all ISPs by the megabyte for exchanged traffic - at
one point it was 19 cents / AU / MB...I do not know what it is now.

That effectively put a floor under the pricing of every other ISP....and
made Telstra sh*tloads of money.

> Same old same old, try and form a monopolistic position so you can
> charge way over the odds for what you deliver, even when what your
> delivering is dropping in cost....throw some spin in on the truth so you
> dont actually lie.....guess this is how spin doctors earn thier keep....


Agreed. So Kiwis who know what's good for them will not use the services of
these two ISPs - either for connection of hosting.

That would mean most people on braodband going back to dial services. How
likely is THAT to happen?

Yet again, the telcos have pulled a fast one on the telecommunications
commissioner.

The only possible upside to all this would be that the move COULD push
traffic charges back onto the suppliers.....and let them calculate
flat-rate ADSL pricing based on a set of assumptions. This could be similar
to what happened with IP Net.....

> What does this mean for you and me? well, large very popular &
> successful web sites in NZ might suddenly get slow or time out for that
> ISP's customers as the ISP cuts off the peering link forcing data to go
> the "long way"...


They are also trying to remove the distinctions between "domestic" and
"international".

Yet another example of how markets introduce 'global' inefficiencies in
order to obtain 'private' efficiencies.

We all lose......and they win.

> I get real tired of this lack of honesty....


That is probably the worst part of all this. We KNOW Telecom and
TelstraClear 9and most corporates) will lie to us.

It's a given. They've done it too often to conclude otherwise.




 
Reply With Quote
 
steve
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
AD. wrote:

> I can't get over the short sighted, pig headed arrogance of it
> all. Wankers!! (even if it is the other one, that comment still applies)


Rosemary Howard and Telstra (AU) both richly qualify for that descrition.

> I think I'll wait and see how this wholesale DSL lark turns out (not
> expecting much) before I think about moving off dial up at home now. And
> I'm advising all my friends, colleagues and clients the same.


The answer will likely be neighbourhood LANs/WLANs.....as Richard Naylor and
Vik Oliver and others have been advocating.

If you have a wireless access point, you could be part of a neighbourhood
WLAN provided you invest in a decent antennae.

Sure, it's only local....but any such island will be ready for the day the
bridge can be built. New wireless technologies are greatly increasing
distances. I'm ready to cover a 50km stretch of SH1 when the price is
right.


 
Reply With Quote
 
David Preece
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      07-05-2004
AD. wrote:
> have since changed my mind after hearing
> their plans? Those plans apparently include the removal of discounted
> national traffic.


It's happened already, man. Cable modem users got a "free" upgrade to a
2Mbit connection a few months back (if you asked for it, anyway). In the
small print of this new contract *wasn't* different rates for national
and international traffic.

> I think I'll wait and see how this wholesale DSL lark turns out (not
> expecting much)


It's going to be a disaster. All the ISP's (bar Orcon) have sworn off it
already. Ihug are chucking lots more radio based gear up, including
apparently a VoIP rollout. Blimey.

Anyway, and all this on a background of Woosh and Telecom getting
increasingly matey. You've got to wonder if Woosh's business strategy is
to get bought by Telecom as soon as they reckon they can get away with it.

Shitfight, eh?

Dave
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Its a bird, its a plane, its.. um, an Attribute based System? thunk Ruby 14 04-03-2010 10:08 AM
Its a bird, its a plane, its.. um, an Attribute based System? thunk Ruby 0 04-01-2010 10:25 PM
Its a bird, its a plane, no ummm, its a Ruide thunk Ruby 1 03-30-2010 11:10 AM
Firefox screwing with my style sheet margins! Bill Firefox 14 11-18-2005 03:30 PM
Screwing up my HTML Chris ASP .Net 3 11-05-2003 03:34 PM



Advertisments