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More Microsoft Mischief

 
 
Matthew Poole
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      06-02-2004
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
*SNIP*
>Microsoft has stated it funds AdTI;
>"A Microsoft spokesman confirmed that Microsoft provides funding to the
>Alexis de Tocqueville Institution."
>http://www.wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,52973,00.html
>

I loved reading Tanenbaum's critique of his interview with Brown, where
as soon as he asked Brown about funding it was like a tape player had
started: "We have multiple funding sources."
It must be some kind of mantra within AdTI, maybe even something which
is hung on walls.

--
Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
"Veni, vidi, velcro...
I came, I saw, I stuck around"

My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
 
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Peter
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      06-02-2004

Another Microsoft-funded "research" institute (the Alexis de Tocqueville
Institute) has been reported making false claims against one of Microsoft's
competitors.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/0,39023165,39148210,00.htm

Ken Brown's claims have been strongly criticised as just plain wrong.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34069.html
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/followup/
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/codecomparison/

It rather looks as though Microsoft realises it can't compete on price &
value, it can't compete on performance and it can't compete on quality of
software, so it has to resort to unethical or unlawful means to discredit
its competitors (in this case, funding lies about Linux).

Microsoft has stated it funds AdTI;
"A Microsoft spokesman confirmed that Microsoft provides funding to the
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution."
http://www.wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,52973,00.html


Peter

 
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SteveM
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      06-03-2004
http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed) (Matthew Poole) wrote in
news:c9lbeu$4pn$(E-Mail Removed):

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Peter
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote: *SNIP*
>>Microsoft has stated it funds AdTI;
>>"A Microsoft spokesman confirmed that Microsoft provides funding to
>>the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution."
>>http://www.wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,52973,00.html
>>

> I loved reading Tanenbaum's critique of his interview with Brown,
> where as soon as he asked Brown about funding it was like a tape
> player had started: "We have multiple funding sources."
> It must be some kind of mantra within AdTI, maybe even something which
> is hung on walls.
>


Have a look on Groklaw www.groklaw.net. It has a good breakdown of the
suituation.

SteveM
 
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steve
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      06-03-2004
Peter wrote:
> Another Microsoft-funded "research" institute (the Alexis de Tocqueville
> Institute) has been reported making false claims against one of Microsoft's
> competitors.
> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/0,39023165,39148210,00.htm
>
> Ken Brown's claims have been strongly criticised as just plain wrong.
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34069.html
> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/followup/
> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/codecomparison/
>
> It rather looks as though Microsoft realises it can't compete on price &
> value, it can't compete on performance and it can't compete on quality of
> software, so it has to resort to unethical or unlawful means to discredit
> its competitors (in this case, funding lies about Linux).
>
> Microsoft has stated it funds AdTI;
> "A Microsoft spokesman confirmed that Microsoft provides funding to the
> Alexis de Tocqueville Institution."
> http://www.wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,52973,00.html


You're right.....It's the usual crap from the usual source.

I pity nice guys like Nathan Mercer and Brett Roberts having their good
efforts to support their products and their users undermined in this way
by their dishonest employer.

 
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Brett Roberts
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      06-04-2004
"steve" <steve@mozilla-tbird0.6.org.nz> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Peter wrote:
>> Another Microsoft-funded "research" institute (the Alexis de Tocqueville
>> Institute) has been reported making false claims against one of
>> Microsoft's
>> competitors.
>> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/0,39023165,39148210,00.htm
>>
>> Ken Brown's claims have been strongly criticised as just plain wrong.
>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34069.html
>> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/followup/
>> http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/codecomparison/
>>
>> It rather looks as though Microsoft realises it can't compete on price &
>> value, it can't compete on performance and it can't compete on quality of
>> software, so it has to resort to unethical or unlawful means to discredit
>> its competitors (in this case, funding lies about Linux).
>>
>> Microsoft has stated it funds AdTI;
>> "A Microsoft spokesman confirmed that Microsoft provides funding to the
>> Alexis de Tocqueville Institution."
>> http://www.wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,52973,00.html

>
> You're right.....It's the usual crap from the usual source.
>
> I pity nice guys like Nathan Mercer and Brett Roberts having their good
> efforts to support their products and their users undermined in this way
> by their dishonest employer.
>


Oh puleeeeease.... from my reading it's hardly a secret that Microsoft funds
these guys, this topic has popped up a number of times on Slashdot over the
years e.g. this post which is exactly 2 years old
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...thread&tid=109 and
I am not aware of Microsoft actively using or promoting AdTI research (I
know we haven't here in NZ). I'm genuinely pleased to hear that Nathan and I
are perceived as nice guys (remember, I'm the good-looking one) but I fail
to see where Microsoft has been "dishonest" in any of this.

Brett Roberts
Microsoft NZ



 
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Divine
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      06-04-2004
On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:00:45 +1200, Brett Roberts wrote:

> but
> I fail to see where Microsoft has been "dishonest" in any of this.


FUD...

QED


Divine

--
Niels Bohr: "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But
the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."

 
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Peter
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      06-04-2004
Brett Roberts wrote:
> I fail to see where Microsoft has been "dishonest" in any of this.


1. AdTI is funded by Microsoft.
2. AdTI is telling damaging lies about Microsoft's competition.

You might say this is an innocent coincidence, but that's rather hard to
believe on the available evidence.
As you point out, this has been going on for years, so it is not exactly an
accident, is it? No, Microsoft knows exactly who it is funding and what
they are doing. It all looks pretty deliberate.


Peter

 
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Brendan
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      06-04-2004
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:00:45 +1200, Brett Roberts wrote:

> Oh puleeeeease.... from my reading it's hardly a secret that Microsoft funds
> these guys, this topic has popped up a number of times on Slashdot over the
> years e.g. this post which is exactly 2 years old
> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...thread&tid=109 and
> I am not aware of Microsoft actively using or promoting AdTI research (I
> know we haven't here in NZ). I'm genuinely pleased to hear that Nathan and I
> are perceived as nice guys (remember, I'm the good-looking one) but I fail
> to see where Microsoft has been "dishonest" in any of this.
>
> Brett Roberts
> Microsoft NZ


And if you DID know of dishonesty, and DID publically say they were
dishonest, would your remaining employment be measured in minutes or hours
?

Brett, you may very well be correct. I do not believe it, but you may well
be. But because of where your livlihood comes from, it is very hard for
people to believe you are entirely unbiased.

--

.... Brendan

The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad.
Salvador Dali

Note: All comments are copyright 4/06/2004 2:01:25 p.m., and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
 
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steve
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      06-05-2004
Brett Roberts wrote:

> .....but I fail
> to see where Microsoft has been "dishonest" in any of this.
>
> Brett Roberts
> Microsoft NZ


I can understand that.

I see it in a broader context:

MS funds SCO to the tune of $80M through a 3rd-party company....and SCO
runs intereference in the courts spreading FUD about Linux - for which
it has no proof....for almost a year and a half now.

MS funds AdTI and they spread fud....and it is re-cycled regularly as
you point out.

....and so on.

I call that dishonesty. You don't have to agree.

You and Nathan still do good work for your users and the products you
sell and support....


 
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steve
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      06-05-2004
Brendan wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:00:45 +1200, Brett Roberts wrote:


> Brett, you may very well be correct. I do not believe it, but you may well
> be. But because of where your livlihood comes from, it is very hard for
> people to believe you are entirely unbiased.


I wouldn't be too hard on Brett.

When you work for any corporate, you give up some of your freedom to
speak the truth.

Corporations aren't democracy. If anything, they are fascist in the
sense you are there to serve the purposes of the corporation and they
will unilaterally dipsense with your services if they deem them to be
surplus to requirements.

In the meantime - while employed - you are expected to say nothing in
public that is contrary to the interests of your employer.....whether
your employer is right or wrong is irrelevant from the corporations'
point of view.

There are many good and inteligent people who are not allowed to speak
openly on their areas of expertise or participate in broader public life
because their "fealty" (terms of servitude) to their corporation
requires them to remain silent.

Abraham Lincoln was strongly opposed to corporations and considered them
to be anti-democratic and enemies of freedom.

.....and so they are.






 
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