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mandrake 9.2 upgrade disappointing (& dangerous)

 
 
bruce
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      11-19-2003

in addition to installing a kernel that wouldnt let me load it on my
compaq laptop (comapq acpi), the first warning signale came when it didnt
recognise the simple partitioning on my 40gb drive and wanted to remove it
(before asking if this was a fresh install or upgrade from mandrake 9.1)

after having completed the upgrade option and modifying lilo.conf, fstab &
/boot to let me back,i find it has replaced products with the same version
(pan!!) but different config and removed products it oviously had a
problem with (all terminal apps except xterm) konsole has disappeared but
a find shows lots of useless konsole references.

the upgrade option doesnt give you the option to be selective about what
it upgrades, it took two hours with a 48x/1.4Ghz/512Mb and i'm damned if i
can find anything its actually improved on.

frankly downloading the 2Gb .iso's would be a waste of time for anyone
satisfied with their existing installation. i cant find anything new but
have found konsole and control centre gone.



 
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Kurt Häusler
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      11-19-2003
bruce wrote:

> frankly downloading the 2Gb .iso's would be a waste of time for anyone
> satisfied with their existing installation. i cant find anything new but
> have found konsole and control centre gone.


Give up on the .rpm based distros. Try debian. you simply type in
apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and its done. In the few cases
where an updated package wants to copy a new config file in, it gives
you options as to what you want to do.

If its a desktop system, try knoppix, its debian based and much more
user friendly than normal debian. Its primarily cd based so you can try
it out without affecting your hard drive. There are other debian based
distros that are also more friendly on the desktop than raw debian.

I have also heard good things about source based distros, but havent
extensivly used one yet.

But I really dislike the rpm based distros.

 
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Peter
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      11-19-2003
bruce wrote:
> frankly downloading the 2Gb .iso's would be a waste of time for anyone
> satisfied with their existing installation. i cant find anything new but
> have found konsole and control centre gone.


Strange - I've installed MDK9.2 on 3 different PCs (incl a laptop) and had
no such problems. Going from 9.1 to 9.2 is obviously an incremental step,
so no massive changes, but several nice updates to various packages.


Peter

 
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Enkidu
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      11-19-2003
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:22:16 +0100, Kurt Häusler <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
>
>Give up on the .rpm based distros. Try debian. you simply type in
>apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and its done. In the few cases
>where an updated package wants to copy a new config file in, it gives
>you options as to what you want to do.
>

Beware of dist-upgrade. Read and understand all the warnings. It will
automatically upgrade packages, so be sure that you run it with -s to
see what it will do first. I've given up on dist-upgrade. It can cause
too many problems, though 80 - 90% of the time it works OK.

Cheers,

Cliff
--

The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
that the conspiracy is working.
 
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steve
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      11-19-2003
Kurt Häusler allegedly said:

> bruce wrote:
>
>> frankly downloading the 2Gb .iso's would be a waste of time for anyone
>> satisfied with their existing installation. i cant find anything new but
>> have found konsole and control centre gone.

>
> Give up on the .rpm based distros. Try debian. you simply type in
> apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and its done. In the few cases
> where an updated package wants to copy a new config file in, it gives
> you options as to what you want to do.


Installing debian on a laptop could be "fun". Woody (latest version of
debian 'stable') has a fairly lousy install by current standards. He'd be
left to set up X and whatever else debian's install barfed on.

Agreed absolutely once you get it on and everything is running it's pure
magic.....but they REALLY need to ditch that install. Happily, a new and
better installer is in beta....

> If its a desktop system, try knoppix, its debian based and much more
> user friendly than normal debian. Its primarily cd based so you can try
> it out without affecting your hard drive. There are other debian based
> distros that are also more friendly on the desktop than raw debian.


I have done a hard drive install of Knoppix to my old IBM ThinkPad 600E
(PII-300/96MB) and it ran very well - especially if I used Fluxbox or IceWM
as the Window Manager rather than KDE. This worked well....and was probably
the easiest Debian-based distro install - with the possible exception of
Xandros 1.0....with is pret-tee cool.

> I have also heard good things about source based distros, but havent
> extensivly used one yet.


I've installed Gentoo 1.4 on the same IBM laptop and that went fine. I did a
stage 3 install.....so didn't build the entire system from the floor
up...but did compile xfree and fluxbox and Mozilla....which too a while on
the wee old thing. How hard to compile? Easy:

'emerge mozilla'

....then wait for about 8-9 hours on my PII-300 with low RAM while it drags
in all pre-reqs of the Internet and compiles them. The package management
system on Gentoo is "Portage" (derived from doing a 'portage' with a canoe
betwen two bodies of water)

> But I really dislike the rpm based distros.


I'm becoming the same way. Though....if you use apt-rpm, it effectively
treats RPMs as though they were deb packages (as far as pre-reqs are
concerned) and provides much of the ease of use that apt or portage are
both famous and much appreciated for.

It should be noted that the new "Fedora Core 1.0" (would have been Red Hat
Linux 10) supports a variety of package management schemes.....including
"YUM"....which I have never used before. I'm not sure you can use them
interchangeably. You probably have to choose one and then stick with
it....but at least you have the choice.

--
Best Regards,
Steve Withers
defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
your PC with some other operating system.


 
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harry
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      11-19-2003

"steve" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:UGRub.8385$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Kurt Häusler allegedly said:
>
> > bruce wrote:
> >
> >> frankly downloading the 2Gb .iso's would be a waste of time for anyone
> >> satisfied with their existing installation. i cant find anything new

but
> >> have found konsole and control centre gone.

> >
> > Give up on the .rpm based distros. Try debian. you simply type in
> > apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and its done. In the few cases
> > where an updated package wants to copy a new config file in, it gives
> > you options as to what you want to do.

>
> Installing debian on a laptop could be "fun". Woody (latest version of
> debian 'stable') has a fairly lousy install by current standards. He'd be
> left to set up X and whatever else debian's install barfed on.


Its not that hard to do, at the end of the base install it prompts you to
run tasksel and you select x-windows-system, and desktop-environment.
After hearing all the negativity about this process, I did it, and couldn't
figure out what all the fuss was about.
You have to manually select what sort of video card, most people can tell
what nv mga or ati mean.
I think what we are getting from steve is gossip and hearsay, an excursion
into hyperbole, not the words of actual experience.

Heres a great article to guide you through a first Debian install
http://tinyplanet.ca/projects/debian/



> Agreed absolutely once you get it on and everything is running it's pure
> magic.....but they REALLY need to ditch that install. Happily, a new and
> better installer is in beta....
>
> > If its a desktop system, try knoppix, its debian based and much more
> > user friendly than normal debian. Its primarily cd based so you can try
> > it out without affecting your hard drive. There are other debian based
> > distros that are also more friendly on the desktop than raw debian.

>
> I have done a hard drive install of Knoppix to my old IBM ThinkPad 600E
> (PII-300/96MB) and it ran very well - especially if I used Fluxbox or

IceWM
> as the Window Manager rather than KDE. This worked well....and was

probably
> the easiest Debian-based distro install - with the possible exception of
> Xandros 1.0....with is pret-tee cool.
>
> > I have also heard good things about source based distros, but havent
> > extensivly used one yet.

>
> I've installed Gentoo 1.4 on the same IBM laptop and that went fine. I did

a
> stage 3 install.....so didn't build the entire system from the floor
> up...but did compile xfree and fluxbox and Mozilla....which too a while on
> the wee old thing. How hard to compile? Easy:
>
> 'emerge mozilla'
>
> ...then wait for about 8-9 hours on my PII-300 with low RAM while it drags
> in all pre-reqs of the Internet and compiles them. The package management
> system on Gentoo is "Portage" (derived from doing a 'portage' with a canoe
> betwen two bodies of water)
>


Thats way harder than Debian


 
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harry
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-19-2003

"Enkidu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:22:16 +0100, Kurt Häusler <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
> >
> >Give up on the .rpm based distros. Try debian. you simply type in
> >apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and its done. In the few cases
> >where an updated package wants to copy a new config file in, it gives
> >you options as to what you want to do.
> >

> Beware of dist-upgrade. Read and understand all the warnings. It will
> automatically upgrade packages, so be sure that you run it with -s to
> see what it will do first. I've given up on dist-upgrade. It can cause
> too many problems, though 80 - 90% of the time it works OK.
>


Theres an excellent guide to APT here, particularly the /etc/apt/apt.conf
default release settings

http://www.spack.org/index.cgi/AptHelp


 
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Enkidu
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-19-2003
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:57:08 +1300, steve <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>Installing debian on a laptop could be "fun". Woody (latest version of
>debian 'stable') has a fairly lousy install by current standards. He'd be
>left to set up X and whatever else debian's install barfed on.
>

Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.

I've installed many distros and Debian is one of the easier and better
ones. I've started from floppies, downloaing everything and I've
started from CD. No problems. No install barfs. Install X and it just
runs.

I've never tried Mandrake so I can't comment on that one. I've done
many RH installs and they've been mostly trouble free. I've done
slackware in the early days and that was not too bad.

I've seen your posts about Debian. You appear to have had some
problems with it and therefore decided to rubbish it. However that
doesn't change the fact that 99.99..% of people who install Debian
have no trouble.

Cheers,

Cliff
--

The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
that the conspiracy is working.
 
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Kurt Häusler
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      11-19-2003
Enkidu wrote:

> Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.


Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian supporter.

But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM? They
are pretty strong linux backers.

 
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harry
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-20-2003

"Kurt Häusler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bpgv86$uf2$06$(E-Mail Removed)-online.com...
> Enkidu wrote:
>
> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.

>
> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian supporter.
>
> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM? They
> are pretty strong linux backers.
>


Its a historical reference

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html


FUD: /fuhd/, n.
Defined by Gene Amdahl after he left IBM to found his own company: "FUD is
the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds
of potential customers who might be considering [Amdahl] products." The
idea, of course, was to persuade them to go with safe IBM gear rather than
with competitors' equipment. This implicit coercion was traditionally
accomplished by promising that Good Things would happen to people who stuck
with IBM, but Dark Shadows loomed over the future of competitors' equipment
or software.


 
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