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Kiwi's banned from international ecommerce?

 
 
Domain Names
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      10-07-2003

I have been closely watching a court case in which an NZ exporter who has a
..com domain (using the example from earlier posts, I'll use beds.com) is in
dispute with a UK company who uses beds.co.uk.

One of the causes of action is under the S9 "Misleading Behaviour" of the
NZ Fair Trading Act, in which beds.co.uk says that internet users in the UK
could be misled and/or confused by the similarity of domain names. Note
that apart from selling similar items, there is no similarity in the site
content - only in the url.

Incredibly, the NZ high court judge agreed! Out lawyer says it's 'a
chilling precedent'.

Quoting our lawyer again 'It means someone in NZ can breach the FTA
complete unwittingly, [by] using a domain name [of] a shop in any other
county. As long as the shop can prove a reputation in their country, they
can mount an action against someone in NZ under the FTA. Broadcasting on
the net makes you liable, as someone in that country can receive that
information.'

While this decision came about during the injunction hearing which only
_prevents_ beds.com from using that domain for webserving to customers in
the UK, beds.co.uk are seeking the _transfer_ of beds.com to the owners of
beds.co.uk as a remedy for the FTA "breach".

At least until the full trial, one option that we do have is to use GeoIP
http://www.maxmind.com/app/country to prevent access from the UK and
Europe. Can anyone recommend a web hoster/developer who has had experience
using GeoIP?
 
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madknoxie
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      10-08-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Domain Names <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> At least until the full trial, one option that we do have is to use GeoIP
> http://www.maxmind.com/app/country to prevent access from the UK and
> Europe. Can anyone recommend a web hoster/developer who has had experience
> using GeoIP?


There are free/open source ones available, here's one I came across
yesterday: http://www.hotscripts.com/Detailed/26798.html

I'm not sure how reliable these types of scripts are in actually
determining where an IP comes from, but it shouldn't stop you
using/testing one. Have a search of the site/URL I gave you above,
theres bound to be more there.

That is a chilling precendent! Has the judge ever used a computer before?

--
madknoxie
$35 .nz domain names: http://www.ivision.co.nz/
 
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will
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      10-08-2003
> One of the causes of action is under the S9 "Misleading Behaviour" of the
> NZ Fair Trading Act, in which beds.co.uk says that internet users in the UK
> could be misled and/or confused by the similarity of domain names. Note
> that apart from selling similar items, there is no similarity in the site
> content - only in the url.


#### can beds.com conuter-sue beds.co.uk for misleading UK/European
customers wanting to buy the world-famous NZ-made beds, but mistakenly
visited beds.co.uk thinking that it represents beds.com? for example,
i'm in NZ, so naturally i'll visit sony.co.nz before trying sony.com.
just a crazy thought

but seriously, i think this kind of (common sense) cases should be made
public. not all judges are internet geeks, and any domain-name-related
cases that made the news (qantas, oggi etc) are all about
cyber-squatting. so it's easy to mistake all defendants as
cybersquatters, otherwise why would the plantiff bother to come to the
court?

so hopefully thru TV/newspaper, more people will come to their senses
and understand the differences.

it's a .com, but it's not surprising that they didn't go thru WIPO
first, which is cheaper and quicker.

will.
 
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Jason M
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      10-08-2003
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 10:46:01 +1300, Domain Names
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Incredibly, the NZ high court judge agreed!


Who is the judge? Or do you have a URL about the case?

 
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pete
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      10-08-2003

"madknoxie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Domain Names <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > At least until the full trial, one option that we do have is to use

GeoIP
> > http://www.maxmind.com/app/country to prevent access from the UK and
> > Europe. Can anyone recommend a web hoster/developer who has had

experience
> > using GeoIP?

>
> There are free/open source ones available, here's one I came across
> yesterday: http://www.hotscripts.com/Detailed/26798.html
>
> I'm not sure how reliable these types of scripts are in actually
> determining where an IP comes from, but it shouldn't stop you
> using/testing one. Have a search of the site/URL I gave you above,
> theres bound to be more there.
>
> That is a chilling precendent! Has the judge ever used a computer before?


probably only to "research" porn sites
>
> --
> madknoxie
> $35 .nz domain names: http://www.ivision.co.nz/



 
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Uncle StoatWarbler
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      10-08-2003
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:17:45 +1300, will wrote:

> it's a .com, but it's not surprising that they didn't go thru WIPO
> first, which is cheaper and quicker.


I thought they'd tried and been told where to get off.


 
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Matthew Poole
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      10-08-2003
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, "Uncle StoatWarbler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:17:45 +1300, will wrote:
>
>> it's a .com, but it's not surprising that they didn't go thru WIPO
>> first, which is cheaper and quicker.

>
>I thought they'd tried and been told where to get off.
>

eh? You saying that WIPO found for the defendant? Damn, that's one
hell of a precedent, since as far as I know they always find for the
plaintiff in domain name cases.
Or is that just my extremely cynical view of any IP rules into which the
Yanks have input?

--
Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
"Veni, vidi, velcro...
I came, I saw, I stuck around"

My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
 
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Domain Names
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      10-08-2003
Matthew Poole wrote:

>>>it's a .com, but it's not surprising that they didn't go thru WIPO
>>>first, which is cheaper and quicker.

>>
>>I thought they'd tried and been told where to get off.
>>

>
> eh? You saying that WIPO found for the defendant? Damn, that's one
> hell of a precedent, since as far as I know they always find for the
> plaintiff in domain name cases.
> Or is that just my extremely cynical view of any IP rules into which the
> Yanks have input?


Well, we tried to get the case moved to WIPO, because this is clearly
not a case cybersquatting (though that didn't stop them trying to argue
that in court). But the attackers declined.

Probably they got the advice we did - that as the principal has been
trading in the items for 10 years or more the principal has a strong
claim to the domain. WIPO generally only deals with clear cybersquatting
cases.


 
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Domain Names
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      10-08-2003
Jason M wrote:

>do you have a URL about the case?


No, I'm just reading the judgement itself, handed down Monday (but
delayed in getting to me by Xtra's email problems until yesterday!)


 
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will
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      10-08-2003
> One of the causes of action is under the S9 "Misleading Behaviour" of the
> NZ Fair Trading Act, in which beds.co.uk says that internet users in the UK


#### does this .co.uk have trademarks in NZ? do they have any commerical
presence in NZ? do you know if other similar domain names (beds.co.nz,
beds.com.au, bets.net etc) have been registered by different people?

is it because beds.com is in NZ and now foreigners are using these NZ
Acts to target NZ businesses? i wonder who will win if, for example,
cars.co.nz takes on cars.com?

are there countries which have a fairer judgements on this kind of
issues yet?

will.
 
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