MCA - Microsoft Certified Architect

I am thinking of taking this credential when released.

I was just wondering what everyones feelings were on this qualification?

Regards
Simon.

Simon Hart

Requirements are well beyond me. 10+ years of exp., 3 years as architect. But
the certification process looks good to me. Presenting to peers and getting
their recognition has lot more credit. I wish exams like MCAD were like this
where you write actual code and get it reviewd by experts.


"Simon Hart" wrote:

> I am thinking of taking this credential when released.
>
> I was just wondering what everyones feelings were on this qualification?
>
> Regards
> Simon.
>
>
>

=?Utf-8?B?c2hpcDUw?=

"Simon Hart" <srhartone@[no spam]yahoo.com> wrote:
>I am thinking of taking this credential when released.

This isn't a program you can just "Take a Test, get a crediential" like all
the other. It's a full program, requiring a long trip to Redmond, meeting
with a review board, and so on.

> I was just wondering what everyones feelings were on this qualification?

I think it's a great program, but unfortunatly I can't see myself
participating. This is a shame, as I do work as a real solutions architect
(mostly in .Net land) for a number of companies and state agencies. The best
Credential I'm able to get is the MCLC whose value is largley eroded by the
Architect track.

The price and time requirements (time in Redmond, board reviews, etc) means
no independants and no small company employees are going to get it. The only
people for whom it it will make sense are those who work for the very big
consulting shops (MCS, Avanade, IBM, Unisys, Deloitte, etc).

--
Chris Mullins

Chris Mullins

>>I am thinking of taking this credential when released.
>
> This isn't a program you can just "Take a Test, get a crediential" like
> all the other. It's a full program, requiring a long trip to Redmond,
> meeting with a review board, and so on.

I am well aware of the requirements and fully understand what is required as
I have read the documentation on this.

>> I was just wondering what everyones feelings were on this qualification?
>
> I think it's a great program, but unfortunatly I can't see myself
> participating. This is a shame, as I do work as a real solutions architect
> (mostly in .Net land) for a number of companies and state agencies. The
> best Credential I'm able to get is the MCLC whose value is largley eroded
> by the Architect track.
>
> The price and time requirements (time in Redmond, board reviews, etc)
> means no independants and no small company employees are going to get it.
> The only people for whom it it will make sense are those who work for the
> very big consulting shops (MCS, Avanade, IBM, Unisys, Deloitte, etc).

Isn't this a bit of a defeastist attitude?

Regards
Simon.

Simon Hart

"Simon Hart" wrote:

[MS Architecture Program]

>> I think it's a great program, but unfortunatly I can't see myself
>> participating. This is a shame, as I do work as a real solutions
>> architect (mostly in .Net land) for a number of companies and state
>> agencies. The best Credential I'm able to get is the MCLC whose value is
>> largley eroded by the Architect track.

>> The price and time requirements (time in Redmond, board reviews, etc)
>> means no independants and no small company employees are going to get it.
>> The only people for whom it it will make sense are those who work for the
>> very big consulting shops (MCS, Avanade, IBM, Unisys, Deloitte, etc).

> Isn't this a bit of a defeastist attitude?

I don't think it's defeastist at all, it's realistic. I'm a freelance
consultant and already have:
MCP
MCAD.NET
MCSD.NET
I've taken and (I think) passed the 2 MCSD -> MCPD upgrade exams, giving me
the MCPD Enterprise Developer
CompTIA Certified Technical Trainer (CTT+)
MCT (as soon as this year's enrollment process opens back up)
MCLC (the case studies are all done and ready to go, I just need my MCT
first)
(I would love to become a C# MVP - Microsoft, are you listening?)

That's a ton of MS Certs. I think I would also need the SQL 2005 Cert track
done before applying for the architecture program.

On top of this, the architecture cert is going to cost a minumum of $10,000
in real cash.
It's also going to be a week without billing, which is roughly $100 * 8 * 5
= $4000
It's also gonng to be hotel and airfare, which is roughly $1000

Now I'm at $15000 out of pocket, and, best case, I'm going to get a
"Certified Solutions Architect" title.

As a consultant working for a fairly small firm, this just isn't worth the
money. This isn't to say anything about the program, other than a basic
cost-benefit analysis says it's not worth it for people in my posistion.

--
Chris Mullins

Chris Mullins

Wow Chris, that makes you more than qualified for MCA!

I understand your point though it is an expensive programme. One that a
company should pay for, which is little comfort for contractors.

If you were to use your own money, do you think it would be a waste then?

How did you find the upgrade to MCPD exam? I plan to take this very soon in
about 1 month time.

Cheers
Simon.

"Chris Mullins" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Simon Hart" wrote:
>
> [MS Architecture Program]
>
>>> I think it's a great program, but unfortunatly I can't see myself
>>> participating. This is a shame, as I do work as a real solutions
>>> architect (mostly in .Net land) for a number of companies and state
>>> agencies. The best Credential I'm able to get is the MCLC whose value is
>>> largley eroded by the Architect track.
>
>>> The price and time requirements (time in Redmond, board reviews, etc)
>>> means no independants and no small company employees are going to get
>>> it. The only people for whom it it will make sense are those who work
>>> for the very big consulting shops (MCS, Avanade, IBM, Unisys, Deloitte,
>>> etc).
>
>> Isn't this a bit of a defeastist attitude?
>
> I don't think it's defeastist at all, it's realistic. I'm a freelance
> consultant and already have:
> MCP
> MCAD.NET
> MCSD.NET
> I've taken and (I think) passed the 2 MCSD -> MCPD upgrade exams, giving
> me the MCPD Enterprise Developer
> CompTIA Certified Technical Trainer (CTT+)
> MCT (as soon as this year's enrollment process opens back up)
> MCLC (the case studies are all done and ready to go, I just need my MCT
> first)
> (I would love to become a C# MVP - Microsoft, are you listening?)
>
> That's a ton of MS Certs. I think I would also need the SQL 2005 Cert
> track done before applying for the architecture program.
>
> On top of this, the architecture cert is going to cost a minumum of
> $10,000 in real cash.
> It's also going to be a week without billing, which is roughly $100 * 8 *
> 5 = $4000
> It's also gonng to be hotel and airfare, which is roughly $1000
>
> Now I'm at $15000 out of pocket, and, best case, I'm going to get a
> "Certified Solutions Architect" title.
>
> As a consultant working for a fairly small firm, this just isn't worth the
> money. This isn't to say anything about the program, other than a basic
> cost-benefit analysis says it's not worth it for people in my posistion.
>
> --
> Chris Mullins
>

Simon Hart

Simon Hart wrote:
> Wow Chris, that makes you more than qualified for MCA!

Yea, I've got the pre-reqs covered. That's the easy part...

> If you were to use your own money, do you think it would be a waste then?

I don't think it would be a waste, but I don't think I would make back the
money it would cost to get 9and I think if I told my wife I wanted to spend
$15K out of pocket on another computer related thing, regardless of
importance, she would kill me). The only real win that I can see would be
the very, very few projects that would require it in order to bid on them.
There are also a few contracts I would win over another guy, but the rate
probably wouldn't change.

I keep mentally comparing the MCA cert to the other professional
certifications:

1 - The PE (Professional Engineer) certification that many of my civil and
mechanical engineering friends have. In their world, this certification is
their life - it's required for everything signifigant they want to do with
their carrear. It's recognized and accepted world-wide, and required on
almost all projects big and small. Their cost for the ProE is nothing like
the MCA cost.

2 - The legal profession requires the BAR exam. This exam is required for
just about everything law related. In fact practicing law without this will
land someone in very hot water.The cost of the BAR exam is nothing like the
MCA cost. Total cost for the BAR is about $600.

3 - Even surgical boards for MDs, certainly something we should hold up as
the gold standard, doesn't have a price like the MCA.

... and when I make these comparisions, the MCA doesn't fare so well -
especially when the price is factored in.

--
Chris Mullins

Chris Mullins

"Simon Hart" wrote:
>
> How did you find the upgrade to MCPD exam? I plan to take this very soon
> in about 1 month time.

This may sound funny, but I was actually pretty angry after taking them. I
took the 1st one in the morning, and the 2nd one in the afternoon.

The length of time the exams required, the sheer number of questions, and
the increased difficully all took me by surprise. These exams were 3+ hours
each, and at the end of the day I don't even get a pass / fail, much less a
score report. In fact, I *still* haven't gotten results of any kind. I
undersant they're beta exams and all, but they were so different from all
the other MSCD exams that I've taken in terms of difficulty and duration,
that I was not happy. These were my first, and last, beta exams. Next time
I'll wait for the real thing.

Overally, I would much rather see the exams be difficult so I'm happy with
that. The higher the bar to entry in terms of knowlege and applicability,
the more value the cert has. The MCSD exams were very easy, so the
difficultly of the MCPD stuff (especially the beta stuff) really caught me
off guard. I mean, heck, an hour on remoting? Where on earth did that come
from? That's a dead end technology that few use, fewer recommend, and it's
future in the face of WCF is very bleak. With the big push towards SOA (and
standards) remoting is absolutly out for just about everything.

WSE 3.0? That's not even a .NET product - it doesn't ship with Visual
Studio, it's poorly documented, there are few (any?) books for it, no study
material, and the specs it implements are still very immature, and yet the
questions on it were very detailed and thorough. If I have to try one more
time to justify the insanity of WS-* specs from OASIS, I'm gonna scream
(Today this spec is recommended, tomorrow it's depricated in favor of this
other spec, next week it's back but in version 2 form, next month the other
spec if back as version 3 and it's depricated again, next quarter a new spec
if going to replace them both and it might look like this...AAHH!)

I would much rather have seen questions related to the new Unit Test
infrastructure, the new Memory Profiler, the Code Coverage tools, and .Net
internals.

--
Chris Mullins

Chris Mullins

>> How did you find the upgrade to MCPD exam? I plan to take this very soon
>> in about 1 month time.
>
> This may sound funny, but I was actually pretty angry after taking them. I
> took the 1st one in the morning, and the 2nd one in the afternoon.
>
> The length of time the exams required, the sheer number of questions, and
> the increased difficully all took me by surprise. These exams were 3+
> hours each, and at the end of the day I don't even get a pass / fail, much
> less a score report. In fact, I *still* haven't gotten results of any
> kind. I undersant they're beta exams and all, but they were so different
> from all the other MSCD exams that I've taken in terms of difficulty and
> duration, that I was not happy. These were my first, and last, beta exams.
> Next time I'll wait for the real thing.

Interesting, I have heard it can take upto 4 weeks to get the result. I
don't see why they can't give you a result there and then like all the other
MCAD/MCSD exams.

> Overally, I would much rather see the exams be difficult so I'm happy with
> that. The higher the bar to entry in terms of knowlege and applicability,
> the more value the cert has. The MCSD exams were very easy, so the
> difficultly of the MCPD stuff (especially the beta stuff) really caught me
> off guard. I mean, heck, an hour on remoting? Where on earth did that come
> from? That's a dead end technology that few use, fewer recommend, and it's
> future in the face of WCF is very bleak. With the big push towards SOA
> (and standards) remoting is absolutly out for just about everything.

I agree. For exam 70-320 I had to learn .NET Remoting - totally alien to it.
Which exam number contained the .NET remoting?

I am interested in taking 70-552. Which I understand earns the MCPD and MCTS
certs.

> WSE 3.0? That's not even a .NET product - it doesn't ship with Visual
> Studio, it's poorly documented, there are few (any?) books for it, no
> study material, and the specs it implements are still very immature, and
> yet the questions on it were very detailed and thorough. If I have to try
> one more time to justify the insanity of WS-* specs from OASIS, I'm gonna
> scream (Today this spec is recommended, tomorrow it's depricated in favor
> of this other spec, next week it's back but in version 2 form, next month
> the other spec if back as version 3 and it's depricated again, next
> quarter a new spec if going to replace them both and it might look like
> this...AAHH!)
>
> I would much rather have seen questions related to the new Unit Test
> infrastructure, the new Memory Profiler, the Code Coverage tools, and .Net
> internals.

It is a bizare choice to say the least. One which might prove this cert
difficult to pass. I have no WSE experience to date.

Simon.

Simon Hart

Actually we host them around the world, so no need to come to Redmond, but
it is a fun place to visit.

--
--
Andy Ruth
Microsoft Learning

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

"Chris Mullins" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Simon Hart" <srhartone@[no spam]yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I am thinking of taking this credential when released.
>
> This isn't a program you can just "Take a Test, get a crediential" like
> all the other. It's a full program, requiring a long trip to Redmond,
> meeting with a review board, and so on.
>
>> I was just wondering what everyones feelings were on this qualification?
>
> I think it's a great program, but unfortunatly I can't see myself
> participating. This is a shame, as I do work as a real solutions architect
> (mostly in .Net land) for a number of companies and state agencies. The
> best Credential I'm able to get is the MCLC whose value is largley eroded
> by the Architect track.
>
> The price and time requirements (time in Redmond, board reviews, etc)
> means no independants and no small company employees are going to get it.
> The only people for whom it it will make sense are those who work for the
> very big consulting shops (MCS, Avanade, IBM, Unisys, Deloitte, etc).
>
> --
> Chris Mullins
>

Andy Ruth [MSFT]