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To all Windows users!!!!!

 
 
Peter
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      08-23-2003
this quote is from Max Burke of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42 :
> http://www.partyvibe.com/flavour/linux/security.htm
> http://www.linuxsecurity.com/advisories/index.html
> http://www.opennet.ru/base/linux/
> http://www.securityfocus.com/news/19
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/


So? There are patches and upgrades to OSS. Your point is ... ?

> Until OSS/Linux offers the same 'out of the box' experience that the
> average computer owner/user gets from Windows it will never be seen as
> an alternative TO the average computer owner/user.


I'm glad my experience with OSS is not the same as with Windos. Actually, I
have found OSS to be superior.

> Microsoft hasn't ripped me off ever. I have always got real value from
> the purchase and use of their products and services.


That's fine.

> Tell me why you'd buy products and services then whine and bitch that
> you had been ripped off because you 'apparently' paid too much for them?


I'd try and avoid that approach, wouldn't you?

> Hey if YOU have a consumer product from Microsoft that is breaking the
> CGA then why aren't YOU taking them to court, instead of whining and
> bitching in this forum.


I avoid Microsoft products as much as possible, and have found that this
policy works fine. My main involvement with MS products is in helping
people who use them pick up the pieces when it breaks or gets infected.


Peter

 
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Anthony Neville
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      08-23-2003

"Lennier" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsan.2003.08.22.23.35.09.441016@TRACKER...
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:11:00 +1200, Anthony Neville wrote:
>
> > You patronizing ****. If this were a forum dedicated to computer newbies
> > your post would be forgivable. In posting here, where users know about
> > firewalls, ports, security updates, and viruses, it is an insult. Your
> > lumping of ~all~ Windows users together is not appreciated, just as it
> > would not be appreciated to associate all linux users wiith obnoxious,
> > geekish cliques of lumpen, mean spirited 'Free software = freedom'
> > zealots.

>
> Sounds to me that you're not exactly happy to be using WinXP.


If I were running XP I'd still call him a patronizing **** because a patronizing **** is what
he is. All I have currently available is Win98 (first edition) and Redhat. Windows XP Pro
is at this very moment ready to be installed on to my 3Ghz dream machine I have been
building over the last two weeks and am just waiting for my gfx card and memory to be
delivered. Yes, Lennier, a prime machine deserves a prime desktop OS and it is not
Win98 or Redhat, but XP Pro.

Tony.



 
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Stephen Williams
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      08-23-2003

"Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
newsan.2003.08.23.00.05.07.689324@127.0.0.1...
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:46:37 +1200, Enkidu wrote:
>
> > This post was not "Fair and Balanced".

>
> Life's tough, ain't it mate!
>


Not if you're biggest concerns are server processor cycles and bandwidth.

Must be very easy indeed!

Steve


 
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Max Burke
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      08-23-2003
> Lennier scribbled:

>> Max Burke wrote:


>> Secondly, it apparently (in all the various distros and apps) is
>> just as bug ridden as advocates of OSS/Linux (like you) like to
>> claim Windows and it's apps are.


> Yes - there are bugs in Open Source software.


Of course there are.....

> The interesting thing is that they are well publicised, and are
> actively worked upon.


I should certainly HOPE so....
But what of all the ones that are not known about, not publicised,
and/or NOT being worked on?

> Once a bug is know about in OSs - especially security bugs - they are
> squashed very quickly.


BS.....
Because the truth is that open source doesn't cure cancer, doesn't lead
to a global gift economy, and doesn't produce perfect software on the
first, second, or even fifty-seventh try. Hell, I could put together a
laundry list right now of glaring flaws and shortcomings in Linux that I
blame squarely on open source development and developers. Jason Compton.
http://www.linux-mag.com/online/compton_c01_01.html

> OSs does not have a vested interest in maintaining a facade of
> invulnerability


BS!

I take it that YOU specifically, and OSS/Linux advocates generally will
from this day on (23/08/2003) will stop claiming that OSS/Linux is by
default more secure than any other OS and/or application?
Because so far any OSS/Linux advocate (including yourself) that makes
that claim is doing so simply because of their 'vested interest' in
maintaining that facade of invulnerability to defend their beliefs and
opinions that DONT match the reality of OSS/Linux vulnerabilities.

> - it is totally up front about vulnerabilities that
> are known to exist.


Not when advocates such as yourself claim OFTEN that they dont exist,
when they clearly DO.....

> Why do you think that OSs is developing at such a lightening-fast
> rate?


Perhaps the developers of OSS/Linux need to be paying more attention to
the bugs they're including in OSS/Linux instead of trying to make the
development so lightning fast.... You know, like they and you often say
Microsoft should do....
It's all very well having 'lightning fast development' but NOT at the
expense of shoddy programming that creates bugs and vulnerabilities that
the end users have to get fixed..... (and yes I do include Microsoft
and Windows in that requirement)

> Micro$oft is simply unable to compete with the rate of development
> that OSs is being developed at.


I guess that's why OSS/Linux is constantly playing catch-up with
Microsoft and Windows huh.....

> This alone is but one reason to support OSs - solutions appear very
> quickly indeed.


They're not much use to the ordinary user if they cant use them........

COLA newsgroup subject line, 12-8-2002
OSS and Linux may save us from a new dark age.


--
mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
See Found Images at:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

 
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Max Burke
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      08-23-2003
> Lennier scribbled:

>> Max Burke wrote:


>> Secondly, For all it's touted good points, OSS/Linux is simply NOT
>> ready for the ordinary computer users that most of us are. It is
>> simply to hard for:
>> a.) The average computer user to install configure and keep up to
>> date for ordinary everyday usage let alone keep secure; Computers are
>> supposed to be easy to use.


> You are correct - it *IS* hard for an average computer User to
> install and configure software under Linux.


Which is why they wont see it as an alternative......

> Users are not permitted to install or to adjust the system


Then how do all the OS tweaks and configuration changes get done?

> - it is not
> considered to be secure system administration to permit ordinary
> users to have that sort of system-wide access.


That IS the default out of the box state isn't it?

> Computers are supposed to be reliable and secure - Ease of use is
> ancillary.


Hardly. Ease of use is the CRUCIAL requirement of the average user. The
security requirements should be taken care as an OS function (like
Windows Automatic update)
Reliability is a reality for Windows even when you claim it isn't.....

> That said, RedHat, Mandrake, and Suse are all very easy to use and to
> administer.


Not as EASY as Windows for the average user......

COLA newsgroup subject line, 12-8-2002
OSS and Linux may save us from a new dark age.


--
mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
See Found Images at:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke

 
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Bret
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      08-23-2003
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:39 +1200, "Max Burke" <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz>
wrote:

>Until OSS/Linux offers the same 'out of the box' experience that the
>average computer owner/user gets from Windows it will never be seen as
>an alternative TO the average computer owner/user.


Is that the bit where you fly around the room
 
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Gavin Tunney
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      08-23-2003
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:04:36 +1200, Peter <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>this quote is from Gavin Tunney of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:26 :
>> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:55:16 +1200, Evil Bastard
>>>Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!

>>
>> You're barking up the wrong tree there. Sobig is one worm that has
>> little to do with Microsoft or their software, except it was designed
>> for mass distribution so used the most common OS platform. It didn't
>> exploit any security hole in the email client or Windows, was merely
>> an attachment that users had to run before they could get infected.
>> If users are going to blindly run attachments then it doesn't matter
>> what OS they're running. When you sit back & work it through it occurs
>> that Sobig would likely be just as big a menace if everyone was using
>> Linux.

>
>That's interesting.
>Sobig copies itself into the windows folder and edits the registry. I guess
>the equivalent in Linux would be to copy itself into /bin or /usr/bin and
>to edit some files in /etc.
>However, it could do neither of these in Linux, because of permissions. An
>ordinary Linux user simply does not have permission to change system files.
>
>So, tell me how you "work it through" - how could a virus like Sobig infect
>Linux?
>
>(BTW, don't say it can be done by running it as root. Ordinary users don't
>have root privileges, and a root user who executes unknown code deserves
>what they get.)
>
>


Because home users all want to be administrators Peter. They want to
install software, open attachments, do whatever comes to mind with
their PC. Think about it for a while, we're looking at the way people
are here & not the way we'd like them to be.

Gavin
 
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Howard Johnson
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      08-23-2003

"Lennier" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsan.2003.08.23.00.50.52.148956@TRACKER...
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:59:36 +0100, reetix wrote:
>
> >> Micro$oft Windows is not worth the money - it is insecure, bug-ridden
> >> garbage.

> >
> > Yeah Yeah you're right. I wish I could write garbage like that, that

most
> > of the world use, making ... one of the richest men in the world ..

>
> Bill Gates was very good at marketing his software.
>
> He is STILL to this day reaping the rewards of those early marketing
> decisions.
>

Indeed
Being first into a marketplace is a huge advantage.


 
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Anthony Neville
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      08-23-2003
"Anthony Neville" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:rRy1b.13310$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Lennier" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> newsan.2003.08.22.23.35.09.441016@TRACKER...
> > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:11:00 +1200, Anthony Neville wrote:
> >
> > > You patronizing ****. If this were a forum dedicated to computer newbies
> > > your post would be forgivable. In posting here, where users know about
> > > firewalls, ports, security updates, and viruses, it is an insult. Your
> > > lumping of ~all~ Windows users together is not appreciated, just as it
> > > would not be appreciated to associate all linux users wiith obnoxious,
> > > geekish cliques of lumpen, mean spirited 'Free software = freedom'
> > > zealots.

> >
> > Sounds to me that you're not exactly happy to be using WinXP.

>
> If I were running XP I'd still call him a patronizing **** because a patronizing **** is what
> he is. All I have currently available is Win98 (first edition) and Redhat. Windows XP Pro
> is at this very moment ready to be installed on to my 3Ghz dream machine I have been
> building over the last two weeks and am just waiting for my gfx card and memory to be
> delivered. Yes, Lennier, a prime machine deserves a prime desktop OS and it is not
> Win98 or Redhat, but XP Pro.


Oh oh oh! My drool worthy graphics card has just arrived.

Tony.


 
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Bobs
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      08-23-2003


Anthony Neville wrote:
> "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> newsan.2003.08.22.14.55.15.920039@127.0.0.1...
>
>>To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
>>ready to switch to free open source software:
>>
>>Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!

>
>
> You patronizing ****. If this were a forum dedicated to computer newbies your
> post would be forgivable. In posting here, where users know about firewalls,
> ports, security updates, and viruses, it is an insult. Your lumping of ~all~
> Windows users together is not appreciated, just as it would not be appreciated
> to associate all linux users wiith obnoxious, geekish cliques of lumpen, mean
> spirited 'Free software = freedom' zealots.


LOL!!! Well, said Anthony. I've been running Windows based pcs on the
internet since the mid 90's and never come close to a virus. The fact of
the matter is that these feral tree hugging beatniks are actually worse
than the Mac fantatics they so used to hate.

Ironic stuff really. Almost amusing.

>
> Tony.
>
>



--
Idiot: "You are what you eat"
Bobs: "Tell me, have you ever eaten pussy?"
Idiot: "Yeah. All the time"
Bobs: "Case closed"

(see Bobs' Book of Quotes)

 
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