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Re: Wahoot! Telecom have just invited me to a focus group!

 
 
Alan
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      07-10-2003
"Howard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:cv3Pa.75083

> Does anybody else want me to add their complaints to my list... Now's your
> chance!


See my thread 'Jetstream - what's your mileage?'. Give them a good hard poke
in the ribs about their impractical pricing model.

Alan


 
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Howard
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      07-10-2003
Alan wrote:
> "Howard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:cv3Pa.75083
>
>> Does anybody else want me to add their complaints to my list...
>> Now's your chance!

>
> See my thread 'Jetstream - what's your mileage?'. Give them a good
> hard poke in the ribs about their impractical pricing model.


I just don't understand why Telecom continue to price it they way they do.
My guess is 90% of the overseas traffic could be (and probably is) cached
locally, so the southern cross cable pay back factor doesn't apply.

Yes they're a monopoly so they can "just do it", but I love to see their
econometric models which indicate hardly selling a product at all is the
most profit maximising option! Someone else in this group has said that the
reason might be they don't want to cannablise their toll call &/or fixed
line data link revenue. That is more believe, but it still makes me angry.

I think we'll only get movement on this when we join the modern countries
and finally get competitive last mile access. I have asked Paul Swain why NZ
has not done this, and while he agreed it was desirable, it was just "too
hard". He wanted the new telecoms commisioner to have a year or two sort out
some other issues. Well that was a year or two ago, so its time to start
pressing for it again!

Did anyone else read the article in last week's Independant (paper edition,
so sorry - no link) where telecom was blaming free local calls as the reason
why NZ is 25 out of 30 OECD countries for broad band penetration! The
beginning of a campaign to end free calling! I can see it now, Telecom will
"allow" competitor acces to last mile connections, in excahnge for an end to
free local calling. They'll get their wish, and even better (for them),
something in the fine print will make it uneconomic for competitiors to
access those local lines.



 
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Steve Phillips
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      07-10-2003

"Howard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Yy6Pa.75233$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I just don't understand why Telecom continue to price it they way they do.
> My guess is 90% of the overseas traffic could be (and probably is) cached
> locally, so the southern cross cable pay back factor doesn't apply.


Er, you guess wrong, very litte traffic is cacheable now due to the huge
uptake on peer to peer apps and the fact that 75% of web sites out there
default to sending "dont cache me" tags..

However, the pricing model of DSL in NZ is way out - 3 years ago it was
worked out that at the $0.07/MB Telecom gave back to an ISP as a rebate to
carry the traffic was actually enough to make a small margin on traffic
costs - since then the cost on carrying international bandwidth has more
than halved yet telecom still charge stupid amounts for DSL and excess data.

The other interesting thing was that when telecom dropped the rebate system
their excuse was (quoted almost word for word) "International traffic has
become so cheap now that we do not believe you need a rebate" - Strange
however that telecom never lowered costs to the end consumer..

> Yes they're a monopoly so they can "just do it", but I love to see their
> econometric models which indicate hardly selling a product at all is the
> most profit maximising option!


It can be if the product is over priced such as the existing DSL product is.
It just doesn't make the end consumers very happy as they cant afford it
*shrug* nothing to do with profits tho.

--
Steve.


 
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Howard
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      07-10-2003
Steve Phillips wrote:
> "Howard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Yy6Pa.75233$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I just don't understand why Telecom continue to price it they way
>> they do. My guess is 90% of the overseas traffic could be (and
>> probably is) cached locally, so the southern cross cable pay back
>> factor doesn't apply.

>
> Er, you guess wrong, very litte traffic is cacheable now due to the
> huge uptake on peer to peer apps and the fact that 75% of web sites
> out there default to sending "dont cache me" tags..
>

Yes, but i) HTML make up a very small % of my bandwidth. Its large files
that does it and they certainly can be cached and ii) Telecom have been
known to ignore dont cache me tags too (according to Aardvark). Yes gaming
can chew through the bandwidth, so there's something that can be restricted
to NZ only traffic without complaint from me.

> However, the pricing model of DSL in NZ is way out - 3 years ago it
> was worked out that at the $0.07/MB Telecom gave back to an ISP as a
> rebate to carry the traffic was actually enough to make a small
> margin on traffic costs - since then the cost on carrying
> international bandwidth has more than halved yet telecom still charge
> stupid amounts for DSL and excess data.
>
> The other interesting thing was that when telecom dropped the rebate
> system their excuse was (quoted almost word for word) "International
> traffic has become so cheap now that we do not believe you need a
> rebate" - Strange however that telecom never lowered costs to the end
> consumer..
>
>> Yes they're a monopoly so they can "just do it", but I love to see
>> their econometric models which indicate hardly selling a product at
>> all is the most profit maximising option!

>
> It can be if the product is over priced such as the existing DSL
> product is. It just doesn't make the end consumers very happy as they
> cant afford it *shrug* nothing to do with profits tho.


It all depends on the price elasticity for broadband. If usage climbs more
than 100% for a 50% price drop then they're making more revenue. I for one
think that would be very much the case.


 
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Matthew G Brown
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      07-10-2003
Actully telecom have addressed this , Tight lipped at this stage. I was
talking to some very seniour IP Architects at Telecom and changes are afoot.
The comments where a little vague but it involved a more Clear Tempest
model. Flat rate business products are the main focus and 2 new home models.

the work Ethernet came out a few times as well




"Alan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1Y3Pa.3937$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Howard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:cv3Pa.75083
>
> > Does anybody else want me to add their complaints to my list... Now's

your
> > chance!

>
> See my thread 'Jetstream - what's your mileage?'. Give them a good hard

poke
> in the ribs about their impractical pricing model.
>
> Alan
>
>
>



 
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Uncle StoatWarbler
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      07-10-2003
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:10:08 +1200, Howard wrote:


> I just don't understand why Telecom continue to price it they way they
> do.


Simple. Low speed DDS circuits are _extremely_ profitable and if the
Jetstream pricing is "too low", they'll utterly gut 3/4 of their data
circuit profits.

Telecom make substantial percentages of their profits on DDS (one estimate
was over 50%), they're not
about to do anything which may endanger that pricing model.

Of course, should someone want to hurt them, targetting their DDS market
is the best place to start.


 
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Howard
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      07-10-2003
Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

>> I just don't understand why Telecom continue to price it they way
>> they do.

>
> Simple. Low speed DDS circuits are _extremely_ profitable and if the
> Jetstream pricing is "too low", they'll utterly gut 3/4 of their data
> circuit profits.
>
> Telecom make substantial percentages of their profits on DDS (one
> estimate was over 50%), they're not
> about to do anything which may endanger that pricing model.
>
> Of course, should someone want to hurt them, targetting their DDS
> market is the best place to start.


OK, fair enough. Now why doesn't TelstraClear target this service? Sure it
till requires last mile access, but a large number of businesses could be
given built out access at these prices, surely?


 
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Aaron Lawrence
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      07-11-2003
Thus spake Howard:
> Its large files
> that does it and they certainly can be cached


Can be, but it would a very challenging job to cache what even NZ'ers
download. Terabytes of storage... probably cheaper just to get more
bandwidth!

--
aaronl at consultant dot com
http://homepages.visp.co.nz/~aaronlawrence
...Gross Ignorance: 144 times worse than ordinary ignorance.
 
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Aaron Lawrence
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      07-11-2003
Thus spake Matthew G Brown:
> Actully telecom have addressed this , Tight lipped at this stage. I was
> talking to some very seniour IP Architects at Telecom and changes are afoot.
> The comments where a little vague but it involved a more Clear Tempest
> model. Flat rate business products are the main focus and 2 new home models.
>
> the work Ethernet came out a few times as well


Any idea of when? Months/years/pie in the sky?

--
aaronl at consultant dot com
http://homepages.visp.co.nz/~aaronlawrence
...Gross Ignorance: 144 times worse than ordinary ignorance.
 
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T.N.O.
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      07-11-2003
Aaron Lawrence wrote:
> Any idea of when? Months/years/pie in the sky?
>


I have heard the month of August bantered about for quite some time for
big changes to Jet*

 
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