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Bad media, bad files or bad Nero?

 
 
John
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      12-31-2007
I have a project in Nero that I've been trying to burn onto a Dual
Layer DVD+R disc. So far unfortunately without success (4 new beer
mats!).

I have encoded the project and I am just burning the Video_TS and
Audio_TS using the burning Rom.

So far though upon playback I always seem to have one or two titles
that have errors. It might say unexpected DVD error, unable to read
part of dvd playback might be effected etc and then it stops the video
playing. Have tested on my computers DVD drive as well as regular DVD
player so have ruled out hardware being the problem.

The best I have been able to do so far is to get the errors down so
that it is just two titles out of the 24 that have errors which are
slide shows with music towards the end of the DVD. No matter how many
times I try to sort it out though e.g. try a different music file or
export and then reimport the video to see if that helps, then next
time I have re-encoded the whole project and burning to DVD again, it
seems it is something else that then has the problem a different title
that was okay previously. So I am sceptical that it was a problem with
any of the video or audio files in the project esp after Nero has
encoded it all.

It seems really strange this, so I am thinking that either it is just
bad DL media that I am using or maybe Nero has an error when it is
encoding or burning the DVD? Surely though if it is bad DL media I
wouldn't have 4 coasters in a row? The chances of that are quite slim,
you would have at least got one good burn out of four usually even
with a bad bunch of media you have half okay half bad.

I am thinking that perhaps I will just try burning on a single layer
disc to see if that makes a difference. Unfortunately if I do that I
will either have to reduce the quality of the video files quite a lot
so they fit on the one disc, or somehow split the project in two and
have it over 2 discs. Was wondering if many people burning their own
DVDs have experienced similar problems using Dual Layer media and
found single layer more reliable?

It's been a real pain this because it takes just over 7 hours for Nero
Vision Express to encode all the files, then it takes just over 40
minutes to burn onto a blank DL DVD+R disc.

My project contains quite a lot of slides shows with background music
and 4 DV video files from MiniDV camcorder. Two of the video files are
just three minutes long, one is about 30 minutes long and the other is
1 hour and 20 minutes in length.

Do you think it will make a difference if I export all the individual
titles and bring back in again so that all the effects, texts, music,
edits etc are all within the one video file and then not creating any
chapters for the different titles? I am thinking perhaps having less
individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
of it can go wrong?

John


 
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:Jerry:
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2007
"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

<snip>
>
> It seems really strange this, so I am thinking that either it is
> just
> bad DL media that I am using or maybe Nero has an error when it is
> encoding or burning the DVD? Surely though if it is bad DL media I
> wouldn't have 4 coasters in a row? The chances of that are quite
> slim,
> you would have at least got one good burn out of four usually even
> with a bad bunch of media you have half okay half bad.
>


Hmm, it's unlikely that you have a whole batch of bad disks but what
it could be is that the media is incompatible with the burner,
although rare these days it can still occur, I would certainly try
different media.

FU's set.


 
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G Hardy
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2007
> It's been a real pain this because it takes just over 7 hours for Nero
> Vision Express to encode all the files, then it takes just over 40
> minutes to burn onto a blank DL DVD+R disc.


Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need to
do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with Nero
Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
through the encoding process again.


> My project contains quite a lot of slides shows with background music
> and 4 DV video files from MiniDV camcorder. Two of the video files are
> just three minutes long, one is about 30 minutes long and the other is
> 1 hour and 20 minutes in length.


You might find that the video is being encoded at the maximum bitrate, which
is a problem for a lot of DVD players with DVDR media. For DV sourced
material, you won't see a benefit with the video bitrate higher than
6500kbps. If you have the time to wait for two-pass VBR, you can set the
average from 4500 to 6500kbps and it will still be impossible to see any
difference from the source material.

In the video editor part, click the "More" button and then click "Video
options". In the DVD-Video tab, change the quality setting from "Automatic"
to "Standard Play" and the Encoding mode to "High quality". If you can, you
should also change the audio to Dolby 2.0 rather than Stereo.


> Do you think it will make a difference if I export all the individual
> titles and bring back in again so that all the effects, texts, music,
> edits etc are all within the one video file and then not creating any
> chapters for the different titles?


I don't think it will make a great deal of difference - if possible, you
should always avoid rendering to an intermediate filetype before creating
your DVD.


> ...I am thinking perhaps having less
> individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
> of it can go wrong?


If that's an option, you might find better compatibility with single-layer
DVDR than dual. The price-per-gigabyte of dual has never come down as low as
single, so all my chargeable work has been sent out on SL discs. I've never
had a return - ever. (Well, not because of compatibility problems anyway.)
If the average bitrate needs to drop below 3000kbps in order to fit onto SL
disc, I just span the content across two discs.


 
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Keith
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Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2007
John wrote:
> I have a project in Nero that I've been trying to burn onto a Dual
> Layer DVD+R disc. So far unfortunately without success (4 new beer
> mats!).
>
> I have encoded the project and I am just burning the Video_TS and
> Audio_TS using the burning Rom.
>

Bad Nero.... Bad Bad Naughty Nero...

John, I use lots of different tools. One of them is ImgBurn. You can
get it at http://www.videohelp.com. Use "Build" mode, point it to the
VIDEO_TS folder and select "Device" to burn a disc. Works like a
champ! Here's a Tutorial...
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/arch...er_imgburn.cfm.
> So far though upon playback I always seem to have one or two titles
> that have errors. It might say unexpected DVD error, unable to read
> part of dvd playback might be effected etc and then it stops the video
> playing. Have tested on my computers DVD drive as well as regular DVD
> player so have ruled out hardware being the problem.
>
> The best I have been able to do so far is to get the errors down so
> that it is just two titles out of the 24 that have errors which are
> slide shows with music towards the end of the DVD. No matter how many
> times I try to sort it out though e.g. try a different music file or
> export and then reimport the video to see if that helps, then next
> time I have re-encoded the whole project and burning to DVD again, it
> seems it is something else that then has the problem a different title
> that was okay previously. So I am sceptical that it was a problem with
> any of the video or audio files in the project esp after Nero has
> encoded it all.
>
> It seems really strange this, so I am thinking that either it is just
> bad DL media that I am using or maybe Nero has an error when it is
> encoding or burning the DVD? Surely though if it is bad DL media I
> wouldn't have 4 coasters in a row? The chances of that are quite slim,
> you would have at least got one good burn out of four usually even
> with a bad bunch of media you have half okay half bad.
>
> I am thinking that perhaps I will just try burning on a single layer
> disc to see if that makes a difference. Unfortunately if I do that I
> will either have to reduce the quality of the video files quite a lot
> so they fit on the one disc, or somehow split the project in two and
> have it over 2 discs. Was wondering if many people burning their own
> DVDs have experienced similar problems using Dual Layer media and
> found single layer more reliable?
>
> It's been a real pain this because it takes just over 7 hours for Nero
> Vision Express to encode all the files, then it takes just over 40
> minutes to burn onto a blank DL DVD+R disc.
>

John, you really need to find out what type of video file Nero will use
without Transcoding! For instance, I use a Hauppauge WinPVR-250 (with
hardware encoder) to record programs into MPEG-2 DVD Program files using
VBR / max 6200 Mbps video, MP2 / 48 KHz / 128 Kbps / 16 bit / stereo
audio. I use MovieFactory to author the discs, with the video & audio
parameters set the same. It will assemble and burn a 2 hour movie in
about 1/2 hour -- with _no Transcoding_. Without doing like that, it
used to take about 5 hours on a 1.2 GHz Athlon machine!
> My project contains quite a lot of slides shows with background music
> and 4 DV video files from MiniDV camcorder. Two of the video files are
> just three minutes long, one is about 30 minutes long and the other is
> 1 hour and 20 minutes in length.
>
> Do you think it will make a difference if I export all the individual
> titles and bring back in again so that all the effects, texts, music,
> edits etc are all within the one video file and then not creating any
> chapters for the different titles? I am thinking perhaps having less
> individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
> of it can go wrong?
>
> John
>


 
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Keith
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2007
G Hardy wrote:
>> ...I am thinking perhaps having less
>> individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
>> of it can go wrong?

>
> If that's an option, you might find better compatibility with
> single-layer DVDR than dual. The price-per-gigabyte of dual has never
> come down as low as single, so all my chargeable work has been sent
> out on SL discs. I've never had a return - ever. (Well, not because of
> compatibility problems anyway.) If the average bitrate needs to drop
> below 3000kbps in order to fit onto SL disc, I just span the content
> across two discs.

I agree... And I just thought of something else... I use DVD Shrink to
avoid the high cost of dual-layer disks. Just point it to your VIDEO_TS
folder, it'll shrink it, make an ".ISO" file, and use Nero to burn a
single-layer 4.7 GB disc. You can get it at
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/vi...dvd_shrink.cfm.

BTW.... If it won't use Nero to burn, just get ImgBurn from
http://www.videohelp.com. (You could get DVD Shrink there too)

Cheerio,

Keith
 
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G Hardy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-31-2007
> I agree... And I just thought of something else... I use DVD Shrink to
> avoid the high cost of dual-layer disks....


The OP can use Nero Recode - he can recode direct from the DVD disc to a
directory on the hard drive - in fact if he does that, and the problems
"disappear", the issue is either the bitrate or the compatibility of the DVD
media he's using.

 
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John
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-02-2008

>Do you have to split them yourself or does Nero split them to record both
>sides. A bit like when coping a DVD to a DVD+ R it stops and asks for a
>second disc to be inserted., I hav not botherd with DL as its quicker and
>cheaper to use two discs


That would be interesting to know.

I just went back into Nero re-encoded using lower quality setting for
the video files. I changed it from Standard Play to Extended Play. So
this has dropped the quality from 5073 kbits/s to 2537.

I have sucessfully burned it onto a Verbatim DVD-RW disc.

I am curious to know now why it wouldn't burn onto the DL +R discs.

My drive supports Dual layer so perhaps it was just those particular
discs that were at fault? Maybe if I tried Verbatims either DL +R or
DL -R it would work?

I think it was either a bad batch of DL +R discs, or maybe my machine
prefers -R discs to +R for making a Video DVD? I've not had problems
burning data to Dual Layer +R discs in the past but they were
Verbatims.

I might buy a couple DL+R and DL -R Verbatims just to test on and see
if it can burn to these.

It would be interesting to know though for single sided discs if I
kept the quality the same would Nero Burning Rom let me start the burn
to a single layer disc if it knew my video_ts contents was more than
the 4.7GB? And would it then ask for the second disc halfway through?
Or can you just not do this sort of spanning with Nero for a Video
DVD?

If you wanted to keep the quality the same and span two single layer
discs to do that and Nero burning Rom wouldn't allow you to do it that
way then you'd probably have to go into the project in NVE again split
it halfway and as the last screen just put in a slide show with one
image displayed for 5 minutes saying to change discs. That would be a
way round that if Nero Burning Rom doesn't allow spanning. You would
have to re-encode everything again though.

John


 
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John
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-02-2008

>Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need to
>do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with Nero
>Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
>through the encoding process again.


Hi. That is what I had been doing. NVE had been encoding the video_ts
folder onto my hard drive and then I've been burning using Nero
burning rom onto dvd disc.

I hadn't thought that I would be able to watch the dvd from the hard
drive video_ts folder prior to burning. That is a good idea that. I've
just gone into Nero Showtime now and noticed this "play from folder"
option in the menu so I will have to check if the previous titles that
didn't work on the DL media work when I try playing from the hard
drive instead. I have kept a backup of two previous encodings I did to
the HDD in standard quality for the DL discs so will test this out
very soon.

>> My project contains quite a lot of slides shows with background music
>> and 4 DV video files from MiniDV camcorder. Two of the video files are
>> just three minutes long, one is about 30 minutes long and the other is
>> 1 hour and 20 minutes in length.

>
>You might find that the video is being encoded at the maximum bitrate, which
>is a problem for a lot of DVD players with DVDR media. For DV sourced
>material, you won't see a benefit with the video bitrate higher than
>6500kbps. If you have the time to wait for two-pass VBR, you can set the
>average from 4500 to 6500kbps and it will still be impossible to see any
>difference from the source material.


The quality of my video when I was encoding for the DL disc was 5073
kbits/s (standard play) but I had to drop this to 2537 kbits/s for the
single layer disc. I think the maximum bit rate would be the High
Quality setting in NVE and that is 9716 kbits/s.

All my video is captured from mini-DV and I would like it to be at the
best quality possible, as close to the original source as possible
while getting it onto a DL disc. My average setting was the Standard
Play mode which was 5073 kbits/s and I don't really want to drop this
to 2537 so it fits on single layer.


>In the video editor part, click the "More" button and then click "Video
>options". In the DVD-Video tab, change the quality setting from "Automatic"
>to "Standard Play" and the Encoding mode to "High quality". If you can, you
>should also change the audio to Dolby 2.0 rather than Stereo.


I already had the setting on Standard Play and it was on a high
quality 2 pass VBR encoding. I had kept the audio though on Automatic
setting. I will try changing that to Dolby as well.

>> Do you think it will make a difference if I export all the individual
>> titles and bring back in again so that all the effects, texts, music,
>> edits etc are all within the one video file and then not creating any
>> chapters for the different titles?

>
>I don't think it will make a great deal of difference - if possible, you
>should always avoid rendering to an intermediate filetype before creating
>your DVD.
>
>
>> ...I am thinking perhaps having less
>> individual elements making this whole project up will mean less parts
>> of it can go wrong?

>
>If that's an option, you might find better compatibility with single-layer
>DVDR than dual. The price-per-gigabyte of dual has never come down as low as
>single, so all my chargeable work has been sent out on SL discs. I've never
>had a return - ever. (Well, not because of compatibility problems anyway.)
>If the average bitrate needs to drop below 3000kbps in order to fit onto SL
>disc, I just span the content across two discs.


Is it below 3000kbps that you start to notice the difference in
quality? The video I watched back on parts of the DL discs that worked
did look a lot better than what it does on this single layer rw disc I
have burned to.

I will have to try playing back the folders in Nero Show Time from the
original burns I did to Hard Drive and see if those ones work that
didn't work when I burned to DL disc. I am going to get some
Verbatims though both +R and -R DLs to see if it works on them.

Cheers

John


 
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John
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Posts: n/a
 
      01-02-2008
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:22:29 +0000, John <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need to
>>do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with Nero
>>Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
>>through the encoding process again.


I've just checked in Nero Showtime playing back the hard drive folder
and it seems to be perfect in there. One part of the video plays back
a little slow but I believe that is just my system. It looks good
playing back the hard drive folder.

It looks like this is pointing the way of bad +R DL media? Unless it
didn't like me encoding at 5073 kbit/s (standard play)?

John


 
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G Hardy
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-02-2008
"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:22:29 +0000, John <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>>>Can't NVE burn to a VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive? Then all you need
>>>to
>>>do is watch it in Showtime to make sure the files are OK and burn with
>>>Nero
>>>Express. If you make a coaster (for whatever reason) you don't have to go
>>>through the encoding process again.

>
> I've just checked in Nero Showtime playing back the hard drive folder
> and it seems to be perfect in there. One part of the video plays back
> a little slow but I believe that is just my system. It looks good
> playing back the hard drive folder.
>
> It looks like this is pointing the way of bad +R DL media? Unless it
> didn't like me encoding at 5073 kbit/s (standard play)?


Have you tried it in someone else's machine, or their media in your player?
It's possible you have bad media, but it's possible you have a player that
simply doesn't like DL discs. I've yet to try my latest player with DLs, but
the next newest one 2 years old) stutters with DL media.

If it's an AVERAGE of 5073, then that's bad. Slow bits drop well below that
rate so that fast bits can use more bandwidth - up to 9800. When the bitrate
goes too high (with DVDR) then that's one area where you can experience
stuttering playback. Even with SL discs.

With a DV source, you'll probably not notice any problems with 5073 CBR,
although some footage (confetti, sea surface, trees in the wind etc) may
show slight artefacts.

Just for more info: Pressed DVDs support a continuous video data rate of
9800 kbps and an overall (that's everything: video, audio and subtitles)
maximum of 10.08 kbps. A typical Hollywood film maintains an average of
4000-5000 just for the video, so factor in a DTS soundtrack, a 5.1 AC3
soundtrack and a handful of commentary or second language tracks and you're
around a 5500 to 6500 average. That's for a high-quality source, and we're
talking DV here...

 
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