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Happy christmas

 
 
Walter Roberson
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      12-28-2007
In article <fl14q8$fhf$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Walter Roberson <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote:

>You can get complete source at www.openvms.org .


Checking further, I see I was incorrect about
the available download being complete source; it is only
a "Freeware CD". I was thinking of the wrong sense of "open"
in the name "OpenVMS".
--
"All is vanity." -- Ecclesiastes
 
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jameskuyper@verizon.net
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      12-28-2007
Bart C wrote:
> "Walter Roberson" <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
> news:fl14q8$fhf$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > In article <RcUcj.68876$(E-Mail Removed)> ,
> > Bart C <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

....
> >>The computers I can buy tend to have Windows. And years ago when I was
> >>selling
> >>software my clients all had Windows too.

> >
> > Your words seem to imply that because -you- have only dealt with
> > Windows, that it is unimportant for people to write code that works
> > on other operating systems as well.

>
> The market for home and small business computers seemed to be dominated by
> desktops and Windows. And that's why I wrote for Windows. If my clients all
> had VMS maybe I would have written for that. But keeping cross-platform
> capability in mind seemed less important if the product will run on just the
> one OS. Especially with deadlines


Most of the desktops where I work, and the only currently working
desktop machine at my home, runs Linux. The larger machines where I
work run Irix, and many of the other desktops are Macs running OS/X.
In my last job we did a lot of work on Solaris systems. Before that, I
worked on Unix and VMS machines.

It's a mistake to assume that the environment you're used to is the
only one of any significance. Keep in mind that the C standard is
intended to be efficiently implementable just about every where, not
just on the platform that dominates your part of the computing
universe. No matter which platform that is, most C implementations are
for some other kind of platform. If you want to use a language that
doesn't cater to the peculiarities of such a wide variety of machines,
than you shouldn't be using C, because that's fundamental to very
design philosophy of C.

 
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Dann Corbit
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      12-28-2007
"Walter Roberson" <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:fl1f8k$rg1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <fl14q8$fhf$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Walter Roberson <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote:
>
>>You can get complete source at www.openvms.org .

>
> Checking further, I see I was incorrect about
> the available download being complete source; it is only
> a "Freeware CD". I was thinking of the wrong sense of "open"
> in the name "OpenVMS".


I don't have the context of the original post, but the OpenVMS operating
system source code listing used to come with the machine on microfilm. It
was originally all in assembly, but I guess that with later versions they
came to their senses and wrote it in a higher level language for the most
part. I have not looked at OS code for a long time.



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Bart C
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      12-28-2007

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> Most of the desktops where I work, and the only currently working
> desktop machine at my home, runs Linux.
>...OS/X...Solaris systems...Unix and VMS machines.


> It's a mistake to assume that the environment you're used to is the
> only one of any significance.


I finally have a Linux that has working internet. That and browsing this
newsgroup might help to broaden my outlook beyond Windows.

>If you want to use a language that
> doesn't cater to the peculiarities of such a wide variety of machines,
> than you shouldn't be using C, because that's fundamental to very
> design philosophy of C.


My little secret is I don't program in C much, only snippets. But I use the
C runtime so many discussions here are relevant.

Much of my work has been creating simple languages and writing compilers and
the like. C is important here for various reasons: it is simple and
transparent, and if an interface is defined in C then it's easy to work out
the mechanics. I don't think there's anything else quite like it. (Now if
they could fix that awful syntax...)

Bart


 
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Bob Doherty
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      12-28-2007
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:20:18 -0800, "Dann Corbit" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>"Walter Roberson" <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote in message
>news:fl1f8k$rg1$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> In article <fl14q8$fhf$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> Walter Roberson <(E-Mail Removed)-cnrc.gc.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>You can get complete source at www.openvms.org .

>>
>> Checking further, I see I was incorrect about
>> the available download being complete source; it is only
>> a "Freeware CD". I was thinking of the wrong sense of "open"
>> in the name "OpenVMS".

>
>I don't have the context of the original post, but the OpenVMS operating
>system source code listing used to come with the machine on microfilm.


Actually it was on microfiche

>It
>was originally all in assembly, but I guess that with later versions they
>came to their senses and wrote it in a higher level language for the most
>part. I have not looked at OS code for a long time.


VMS was never all in assembly. The most prevalent language was
Bliss32, a sort of structured assembly language. However, the VMS
team made almost a fetish of using nearly all of the supported
languages someplace in the VMS sources (Pascal, PL/1, C, Basic,
COBOL,Fortran,etc). One supposition for that behavior was that it was
to keep the 'suits' and bean counters from removing the run-time
libraries of any language from the distribution.
--
Bob Doherty
 
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CBFalconer
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      12-28-2007
Bob Doherty wrote:
>

.... snip ...
>
> VMS was never all in assembly. The most prevalent language was
> Bliss32, a sort of structured assembly language. However, the VMS
> team made almost a fetish of using nearly all of the supported
> languages someplace in the VMS sources (Pascal, PL/1, C, Basic,
> COBOL,Fortran,etc). One supposition for that behavior was that
> it was to keep the 'suits' and bean counters from removing the
> run-time libraries of any language from the distribution.


Very nice. Too bad more systems didn't do this.

--
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year
Joyeux Noel, Bonne Annee, Frohe Weihnachten
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>



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