Please critique this "practical freeware tutorial" for archiving DVDs

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:28:28 GMT, Jeff wrote:
> ImgBurn assumes the user doesn't know any better and burns VIDEO_TS
> as a DVD (which could also function as a data disc anyway if that
> assumption was incorrect). Nero assumes the user knows there is
> a difference between [data & DVD] and leaves it up to the user to
> choose which type of disc they wish to burn [data or DVD]

OK. If I understand this correctly, there are two types of "VIDEO_TS"
folders burned on a DVD disc.

Type 1: VIDEO_TS burned as "data".
Type 2: VIDEO_TS burned as "DVD".

If I understood you, Nero asks the user to tell it whether the VIDEO_TS is
to be burned as "data" or as "DVD" while ImgBurn burns the VIDEO_TS as
"DVD".

If that is all true, I still must ask ...

What is the difference between a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "data" versus a
VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?

janet

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:00:32 -0800, Bill's News wrote:
> Modern DVD players, especially those which handle non-DVD
> formats (like DivX) disregard this old constraint. Thus, you'll
> find that some players will play DVDs written by Nero in data
> format.

BTW, is DivX the same as AVI?

janet

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:00:42 -0800, Bill's News wrote:
> Thanks for the tip, Janet. Had not looked for an image
> processor for a long while, will do so now.

Glad to help those who help me and all that read our discussions!

For image-related freeware, I'd recommend the following freeware:
- Irfanview for fast viewing and decent batch shrinking
- Paint.NET for the best text-editing capabilities
- Photo Toolkit for the best portrait blemish & wrinkle smoothing
- Gimp for the most powerful freeware image editing

janet

janet

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:04:00 -0800, janet wrote:
> What is the difference between a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "data"
> versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?

I think the answer was in a later reply.

If I understood that answer correctly, a VIDEO_TS burned as "data" has the
exact files as a VIDEO_TS burned as "DVD" ... but a VIDEO_TS burned as
"data" might have a different "order" of the files than a VIDEO_TS burned
as "DVD".

Is the file "order" the distinction between a VIDEO_TS folder burned as
"data" versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?

janet

Janet,

They're apples and oranges... Divx is a Codec and AVI is a video
container format. From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divx --> *DivX* is a brand name of products
created by DivX, Inc. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX%2C_Inc.>
(formerly DivXNetworks, Inc.), including the DivX Codec
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_codec> which has become popular due
to its ability to compress
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression> lengthy video segments
into small sizes while maintaining relatively high visual quality. The
DivX Codec uses lossy
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossy_data_compression> MPEG-4 Part 2
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_2> compression, also known as
MPEG-4 ASP, where quality is balanced against file size
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_size> for utility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi --> *AVI or Audio Video Interleave*, is
a multimedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia> container format
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_format_%28digital%29> introduced
by Microsoft <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft> in November 1992
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992> as part of its Video for Windows
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_for_Windows> technology. AVI files
can contain both audio and video data in a standard container that
allows synchronous audio-with-video playback. Like DVDs, AVI files
support multiple streaming audio and video, although these features are
seldom used.

janet wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:00:32 -0800, Bill's News wrote:
>
>> Modern DVD players, especially those which handle non-DVD
>> formats (like DivX) disregard this old constraint. Thus, you'll
>> find that some players will play DVDs written by Nero in data
>> format.
>>
>
> BTW, is DivX the same as AVI?
>

Keith

janet <> wrote in
news:RW0aj.33587$. net:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:04:00 -0800, janet wrote:
>> What is the difference between a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "data"
>> versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?
>
> I think the answer was in a later reply.
>
> If I understood that answer correctly, a VIDEO_TS burned as "data" has
> the exact files as a VIDEO_TS burned as "DVD" ... but a VIDEO_TS
> burned as "data" might have a different "order" of the files than a
> VIDEO_TS burned as "DVD".
>
> Is the file "order" the distinction between a VIDEO_TS folder burned
> as "data" versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?

This is answered by Bill below.

Jeff

Janet,

It's my understanding that a VOB file is a DVD-compliant container
format that's just an MPEG-2 video stream and either LPCM, MP2 or AC3 audio.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you can just copy the VOB files
(if not encrypted) off your DVD. Some video editing/authoring programs
will take VOB's as input. This can also be handy because they often
don't need transcoding, saving lots of time. Often, you'll need to
rename the ".VOB" to ".MPG" to use with some software packages.

Also, you should make sure to copy the right title off the disk. There
can be multiple VOB sets; e.g. multiple TV show or movies, etc. VOB
files have specific file names that start with VTS (Video Title Set) and
contain title and section; for example: VTS_01_1.VOB means Title 1,
Section 1. The VIDEO_TS.VOB file is the start of the content and
typically contains menus and trailers. For instance, I would copy and
rename the files:

VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_2.VOB
VTS_01_3.VOB
VTS_01_4.VOB

Oh yeah... I have to edit, or "join" the videos with my software before
authoring (burning).

Cheerio,

Keith

janet wrote:
> I wrote this for a friend and just wondered if experts on this newsgroup
> could critique my explanation and improve the steps for me and my friends.
>
> Here is how to archive your DVDs, using 100% freeware, without wasting time
> watching boring and non-skippable idiotic trailers!
>
> 1. Always use DVDShrink freeware first 'cuz it works most of the time and
> is easy and takes the least amount of disk space and time and effort.
>
> No thinking; just hit the "Re-author" button, choose the main movie title &
> press the backup button. Three easy steps.
>
> 2. Run three additional steps that are optional, but which result in better
> burns. First, you can hit the "compression" tab in DVDShrink and remove
> spurious languages so that you compress less. Second, I generally hit the
> "Analyze" button so that every frame is analyzed for custom compression.
> Thirdly, you can hit the double-arrow button to clip the beginning and/or
> end of the movie so that it starts and ends with just the movie and none of
> the "universal studios" logo crap.
>
> 3. Sometimes DVDShrink fails. You'll know it fails if it gives any kind of
> error. Or if the main movie shows up as something way less than 3 to 6
> Gigabytes. Just give up when you see an error; don't try to work around it.
> For example, if the main movie shows up as 500 Mbytes, then don't even
> think of using DVDShrink. DVDShrink will fail about 5 or 10% of the time
> nowadays. When it fails, you have to add two extra steps in front of DVD
> Shrink. These work 99% of the time; and when they don't, someone fixes
> these programs (see below) so that they work 100% of the time.
>
> 5. The first extra step that works 99.9% of the time is to run DVD HD Fab
> Decrypter freeware. Rip the entire movie to your hard drive. I'm not sure
> why; just do it (that is, don't rip just the main movie). This will take
> about 9 GBytes of disk space on your hard drive.
>
> 6. Then, after ripping the entire movie to your hard drive, run FixVTS
> freeware to fix any bad blocks. Just drag any of the VOB files onto the
> FixVTS GUI and tell it to fix the entire DVD in place (don't bother with a
> backup which takes twice as much time and disk space for no gain).
>
> 7. Once you've run FixVTS freeware on the entire ripped movie, then go back
> to step 1 above and use DVDShrink to shrink it to 4.7Gbytes. You'll notice
> you need about 9 + 5 = 14Gbytes for the original and shrunk version, so
> that is why you don't do this step first.
>
> 8. Once you have a DVDShrink result which works, the last step is to burn
> the 4.7GB VIDEO_TS and (empty) AUDIO_TS folders to the root of a
> good-quality DVD disc as data. I use ImgBurn freeware because it's a fine
> program by a fine programmer; but you can use whatever you want.
>
> 9. Lastly, use only good-quality DVD disc media. You must know the "Media
> ID" of your DVD discs. This sucks but that's the way it is. See this URL
> for a description of good-quality DVD media. Within certain constraints,
> quick practical advice is three steps. First, print out the Media ID guide
> located at http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
> Second, "try" to select a brand/model from that guide. Third, use your
> ImgBurn freeware to identify the "Media ID" (it's in the log file) when you
> burn your DVD image to disc. If you're lucky, you bought good-quality
> media. If not, try again until you find good-quality media. Once you have
> good-quality media, stick with it.
>
> 10. Enjoy your archived movie, without all those annoying trailers! When
> your backup gets scratched, repeat the procedure keeping your original DVD
> dics pristine.
>
> Please critique this process so we all learn better techniques.
>

Keith

>> Is the file "order" the distinction between a VIDEO_TS folder burned
>> as "data" versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?
>
> This is answered by Bill below.

There is no "Bill" in the author listing of this thread in my
newsreader. If you're going to respondat all, why not just copy & paste
the answer so that your post is self-contained?

M.L.

"M.L." <> wrote in
news:vVaaj.33626$ et:

>>> Is the file "order" the distinction between a VIDEO_TS folder burned
>>> as "data" versus a VIDEO_TS folder burned as "DVD"?
>>
>> This is answered by Bill below.
>
> There is no "Bill" in the author listing of this thread in my
> newsreader. If you're going to respondat all, why not just copy & paste
> the answer so that your post is self-contained?
>
OK, so I abbreviated "Bill's News". What he posted is quoted here for you
here. The point is that this question has been asked and answered several
times so I thought that pointing Janet to the most detailed and complete
answer without regurgitating the whole thing would be sufficient.


<quote>
While there is much available on the net regarding DVD structure
and you might find it of interest to read, I'll just make this
comment which might be helpful:

The data on your hard drive, in any given folder has no specific
organization. If any natural sequence occurs, it is probably by
time of arrival. What you see when you view a directory in
Explorer, is whatever order you (or its programmer) have chosen.

The design of the DVD structure is specific. In part this is to
aid in data protection. For example, the BUP files, backup
copies of the IFO files, are specifically stored as far away
from the IFO files as possible. Now, there is no reason for a
DVD player to insist that this specific structure be adhered to,
but it is just one more way to assure factory creation rather
than a pirated copy.

Modern DVD players, especially those which handle non-DVD
formats (like DivX) disregard this old constraint. Thus, you'll
find that some players will play DVDs written by Nero in data
format.

Both ImgBurn & Nero do the same thing, they create an ISO image,
properly organized, prior to burning. The difference is that
ImgBurn is designed only for DVD video format, while Nero is
designed to be a general burning program. Thus Nero asks what
your intent is (data, video, music, etc.) but ImgBurn knows what
your intent is.

And no, I did not mean that IFO files could be left out. They
are the directory to the VTS sets.
</quote>

Jeff

Hello, group members. Just thought I'd let you know that this "janet"
person writing these posts "for a friend" stole my identity for use
here. Didn't know that I knew so much about DVD archival! Cheers!

the real janet




On Dec 15 2007, 7:35 pm, janet <jan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I wrote this for a friend and just wondered if experts on this newsgroup
> could critique my explanation and improve the steps for me and my friends.
>
> Here is how to archive your DVDs, using 100% freeware, without wasting time
> watching boring and non-skippable idiotic trailers!
>
> 1. Always use DVDShrink freeware first 'cuz it works most of the time and
> is easy and takes the least amount of disk space and time and effort.
>
> No thinking; just hit the "Re-author" button, choose the main movie title &
> press the backup button. Three easy steps.
>
> 2. Run three additional steps that are optional, but which result in better
> burns. First, you can hit the "compression" tab in DVDShrink and remove
> spurious languages so that you compress less. Second, I generally hit the
> "Analyze" button so that every frame is analyzed for custom compression.
> Thirdly, you can hit the double-arrow button to clip the beginning and/or
> end of the movie so that it starts and ends with just the movie and none of
> the "universal studios" logo crap.
>
> 3. Sometimes DVDShrink fails. You'll know it fails if it gives any kind of
> error. Or if the main movie shows up as something way less than 3 to 6
> Gigabytes. Just give up when you see an error; don't try to work around it.
> For example, if the main movie shows up as 500 Mbytes, then don't even
> think of using DVDShrink. DVDShrink will fail about 5 or 10% of the time
> nowadays. When it fails, you have to add two extra steps in front of DVD
> Shrink. These work 99% of the time; and when they don't, someone fixes
> these programs (see below) so that they work 100% of the time.
>
> 5. The first extra step that works 99.9% of the time is to run DVD HD Fab
> Decrypter freeware. Rip the entire movie to your hard drive. I'm not sure
> why; just do it (that is, don't rip just the main movie). This will take
> about 9 GBytes of disk space on your hard drive.
>
> 6. Then, after ripping the entire movie to your hard drive, run FixVTS
> freeware to fix any bad blocks. Just drag any of the VOB files onto the
> FixVTS GUI and tell it to fix the entire DVD in place (don't bother with a
> backup which takes twice as much time and disk space for no gain).
>
> 7. Once you've run FixVTS freeware on the entire ripped movie, then go back
> to step 1 above and use DVDShrink to shrink it to 4.7Gbytes. You'll notice
> you need about 9 + 5 = 14Gbytes for the original and shrunk version, so
> that is why you don't do this step first.
>
> 8. Once you have a DVDShrink result which works, the last step is to burn
> the 4.7GB VIDEO_TS and (empty) AUDIO_TS folders to the root of a
> good-quality DVD disc as data. I use ImgBurn freeware because it's a fine
> program by a fine programmer; but you can use whatever you want.
>
> 9. Lastly, use only good-quality DVD disc media. You must know the "Media
> ID" of your DVD discs. This sucks but that's the way it is. See this URL
> for a description of good-quality DVD media. Within certain constraints,
> quick practical advice is three steps. First, print out the Media ID guide
> located athttp://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm
> Second, "try" to select a brand/model from that guide. Third, use your
> ImgBurn freeware to identify the "Media ID" (it's in the log file) when you
> burn your DVD image to disc. If you're lucky, you bought good-quality
> media. If not, try again until you find good-quality media. Once you have
> good-quality media, stick with it.
>
> 10. Enjoy your archived movie, without all those annoying trailers! When
> your backup gets scratched, repeat the procedure keeping your original DVD
> dics pristine.
>
> Please critique this process so we all learn better techniques.

janet