Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Windows 64bit > Intel 64 (core 2 duo) and Vista

Reply
Thread Tools

Intel 64 (core 2 duo) and Vista

 
 
miso@sushi.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-15-2007
I really need to replace my old laptop. While I'd prefer the AMD 64
(which i use on my desktop), it seems the notebook market likes
Intel,at least the one with the features I want.

So what is this Intel 64 used in the core 2 duo (Thinkpad T61 to be
specific.] I've seen it listed as 86_64, but that is the AMD
instruction set.

What does it cost to buy the 64 bit CD? I see it is "free" with
ultimate vista.

Has anyone here upgraded a T61 to 64 bits.

Are any of the versions of VIsta so cheap that they don't support dual
core?

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-15-2007
Vista does not come on a cd. It comes on a dvd. But I understand your
question.

86_64 was first released by AMD but now refers to any x64 cpu which is also
backwards compatible with the x86 instruction set. There is no difference
between an AMD64 instruction set and an Intel Core 2 instruction set in that
regard. I use both AMD64 Athlon x2 and Core 2 Duo to run 64 bit Vista and
64 bit XP.

The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It is
not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista to
get the 64 bit. The 64 bit dvd is included with Vista Ultimate retail
package but has to be requested for all other editions using the
instructions in the retail box for that edition.

I repeat, you will not be entitled to a free Vista 64 bit dvd if 32 bit
Vista comes preinstalled on your computer. Preinstalled Windows is OEM and
not retail.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I really need to replace my old laptop. While I'd prefer the AMD 64
> (which i use on my desktop), it seems the notebook market likes
> Intel,at least the one with the features I want.
>
> So what is this Intel 64 used in the core 2 duo (Thinkpad T61 to be
> specific.] I've seen it listed as 86_64, but that is the AMD
> instruction set.
>
> What does it cost to buy the 64 bit CD? I see it is "free" with
> ultimate vista.
>
> Has anyone here upgraded a T61 to 64 bits.
>
> Are any of the versions of VIsta so cheap that they don't support dual
> core?
>


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
miso@sushi.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-15-2007
On Dec 14, 8:04 pm, "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Vista does not come on a cd. It comes on a dvd. But I understand your
> question.
>
> 86_64 was first released by AMD but now refers to any x64 cpu which is also
> backwards compatible with the x86 instruction set. There is no difference
> between an AMD64 instruction set and an Intel Core 2 instruction set in that
> regard. I use both AMD64 Athlon x2 and Core 2 Duo to run 64 bit Vista and
> 64 bit XP.
>
> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It is
> not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista to
> get the 64 bit. The 64 bit dvd is included with Vista Ultimate retail
> package but has to be requested for all other editions using the
> instructions in the retail box for that edition.
>
> I repeat, you will not be entitled to a free Vista 64 bit dvd if 32 bit
> Vista comes preinstalled on your computer. Preinstalled Windows is OEM and
> not retail.
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> >I really need to replace my old laptop. While I'd prefer the AMD 64
> > (which i use on my desktop), it seems the notebook market likes
> > Intel,at least the one with the features I want.

>
> > So what is this Intel 64 used in the core 2 duo (Thinkpad T61 to be
> > specific.] I've seen it listed as 86_64, but that is the AMD
> > instruction set.

>
> > What does it cost to buy the 64 bit CD? I see it is "free" with
> > ultimate vista.

>
> > Has anyone here upgraded a T61 to 64 bits.

>
> > Are any of the versions of VIsta so cheap that they don't support dual
> > core?


Thanks. I would have never expected I couldn't purchase the 64 bit
OS.

Other than x64 being a dead end product, I wouldn't mind running it on
the notebook. I do nothing with DRM, which as far as I can tell is all
VIsta buys you.

Since they don't sell X64 anymore, are these ads you see on the net
legit? Example
http://www.cietdirect.com/product_sp...php?s=1&id=163
 
Reply With Quote
 
Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-15-2007
x64 is not a dead product. Where did you get that idea? In fact Vista may
be the last version of Windows to have a 32-bit version. 64-bits will be
all there is in a few years. XP Pro x64 is still in active support and
still being sold by outlets like NewEgg.

The ad you linked to is legit. However, some of the description is just
plain wrong. For example,
"Full Version - NOT an upgrade version but will perform an upgrade on 95% of
computers. Buy a full version at an upgrade price," is just plain nonsense.
Firstly, there is no such thing as an XP Pro x64 Upgrade edition anyway so
there is no such thing as an upgrade price; secondly, the box pictured has
nothing to do with XP Pro x64 (it is an XP Pro SP2 box); and, thirdly. it
will NOT perform an upgrade because there is no upgrade path from any 32-bit
Windows to any 64-bit Windows. There is no upgrade functionality in XP Pro
x64 because there are no previous 64-bit versions of Windows to upgrade and
OEM products are for computers without an operating system and therefore
"upgrading" is irrelevant.

This ad is for a standard OEM copy of XP Pro x64 and as such is a good
price. The person who wrote the description simply had no idea what he was
talking about, but don't let that throw you.

You certainly can purchase a 64-bit OS and there are companies who will sell
you either XP Pro x64 preinstalled on a new laptop, or Vista Home Premium
x64 or Vista Ultimate x64 preinstalled. You just have to look.


<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Dec 14, 8:04 pm, "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Vista does not come on a cd. It comes on a dvd. But I understand your
>> question.
>>
>> 86_64 was first released by AMD but now refers to any x64 cpu which is
>> also
>> backwards compatible with the x86 instruction set. There is no
>> difference
>> between an AMD64 instruction set and an Intel Core 2 instruction set in
>> that
>> regard. I use both AMD64 Athlon x2 and Core 2 Duo to run 64 bit Vista
>> and
>> 64 bit XP.
>>
>> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It
>> is
>> not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
>> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
>> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista
>> to
>> get the 64 bit. The 64 bit dvd is included with Vista Ultimate retail
>> package but has to be requested for all other editions using the
>> instructions in the retail box for that edition.
>>
>> I repeat, you will not be entitled to a free Vista 64 bit dvd if 32 bit
>> Vista comes preinstalled on your computer. Preinstalled Windows is OEM
>> and
>> not retail.
>>
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> >I really need to replace my old laptop. While I'd prefer the AMD 64
>> > (which i use on my desktop), it seems the notebook market likes
>> > Intel,at least the one with the features I want.

>>
>> > So what is this Intel 64 used in the core 2 duo (Thinkpad T61 to be
>> > specific.] I've seen it listed as 86_64, but that is the AMD
>> > instruction set.

>>
>> > What does it cost to buy the 64 bit CD? I see it is "free" with
>> > ultimate vista.

>>
>> > Has anyone here upgraded a T61 to 64 bits.

>>
>> > Are any of the versions of VIsta so cheap that they don't support dual
>> > core?

>
> Thanks. I would have never expected I couldn't purchase the 64 bit
> OS.
>
> Other than x64 being a dead end product, I wouldn't mind running it on
> the notebook. I do nothing with DRM, which as far as I can tell is all
> VIsta buys you.
>
> Since they don't sell X64 anymore, are these ads you see on the net
> legit? Example
> http://www.cietdirect.com/product_sp...php?s=1&id=163


 
Reply With Quote
 
DP
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2007

"Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It
> is not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista
> to get the 64 bit.



Just checking here Colin, since I don't know the answer myself.
If the OP were to buy a laptop with 32-bit Vista included, would he get any
kind of price break on 64-bit by using MS's easy upgrade option? I realize
moving to 64-bit is not possible as an upgrade, per se, but I wonder if at
least there's some kind of price break. In other words, he might only have
to pay the difference between the cost of the version of Vista preloaded on
the computer and the cost of 64-bit Vista. That's a little bit better than
having to pay the full retail price of 64-bit Vista.
I recently bought a laptop with 32-bit Vista on it and it came with a DVD
for the easy upgrade process. I have not checked yet to see if 64-bit is an
option there.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2007
The website would not offer an Easy Upgrade option for anything but a higher
32-bit. In his case the only option would be Vista Ultimate x86 since an
"upgrade" to Vista Business would involve a loss of functionality (VHP
includes media center stuff, etc) and therefore EU would not offer it.

Easy Upgrade offers VHP and VU if you are running VHB, and VU if you are
running VHP. If you are running x86 it offers an x86 upgrade. If you are
running x64 it offers an x64 upgrade.

Since Easy Upgrade will never offer an option that facilitates migration
from Vista x86 to Vista x64, what he can do is buy a Vista Home Premium
Upgrade edition at retail and use the info contained in it to request a
64-bit dvd. (In truth, any retail 64-bit dvd is usable since the Product
Key is what really matters and all retail 64-bit dvds are just alike). As
long as he has a retail product key, anybody's retail (but not OEM) x64 dvd
will work regardless of the edition that the dvd was used to install on the
other person's machine.

Upgrading an OEM installation with a retail upgrade edition has always been
supported.

Vista to Vista is an accepted qualifying OS for upgrade pricing. VHP x86 is
acceptible to for upgrade pricing to ANY x86 or x64 edition of Vista. (In
the case of VHP x86 OEM to VHP x86 retail, one simply enters the PK in the
Change PK box on the System Properties page.)

The only edition that would allow him to perform an upgrade in place would
be VU x86. ALL others will require a Custom install.

In order to install the 64-bit version he must boot the computer with a
64-bit dvd and provide the PK when requested (there are not different PK's
for x86 and x64). Unlike the 32-bit version, he does not run the upgrade
installer from the desktop (it won't anyway). The x64 Setup will search the
system for an installation of a qualifying version of Windows (any bitness)
and then take him through the various options. Upgrade will be greyed out
and he will have to choose Custom at the appropriate time.

Unlike the 32-bit version, the 64-bit upgrade edition does allow a true
clean install (he can format the drive, partition, etc., once the upgrade
qualification is verified).

An upgrade PK does allow side-by-side (multiboot) installation if an
additional partition or disk is available.

He MUST have a cd ready with the 64-bit device drivers and utilities from
the manufacturer's website (he may not have access to the internet following
installation if the built in NIC is proprietary).

(I know you know most of this but I thought I would go through the whole
thing anyway for the sake of others reading this who would have the
inevitable questions that always came up in the Vista ng.)

"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eOK$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It
>> is not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
>> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
>> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista
>> to get the 64 bit.

>
>
> Just checking here Colin, since I don't know the answer myself.
> If the OP were to buy a laptop with 32-bit Vista included, would he get
> any kind of price break on 64-bit by using MS's easy upgrade option? I
> realize moving to 64-bit is not possible as an upgrade, per se, but I
> wonder if at least there's some kind of price break. In other words, he
> might only have to pay the difference between the cost of the version of
> Vista preloaded on the computer and the cost of 64-bit Vista. That's a
> little bit better than having to pay the full retail price of 64-bit
> Vista.
> I recently bought a laptop with 32-bit Vista on it and it came with a DVD
> for the easy upgrade process. I have not checked yet to see if 64-bit is
> an option there.


 
Reply With Quote
 
Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-16-2007
I strayed a bit from the your original question. There is no price
difference between x86 and x64 so there would be no price break to give.
Having said this, I realize that some system builders are charging a few
dollars more for the x64 version (preinstalled, of course). But Easy
Upgrade does not charge more for x64 than x86. It doesn't let you choose
between them, however.

"DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eOK$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It
>> is not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
>> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
>> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista
>> to get the 64 bit.

>
>
> Just checking here Colin, since I don't know the answer myself.
> If the OP were to buy a laptop with 32-bit Vista included, would he get
> any kind of price break on 64-bit by using MS's easy upgrade option? I
> realize moving to 64-bit is not possible as an upgrade, per se, but I
> wonder if at least there's some kind of price break. In other words, he
> might only have to pay the difference between the cost of the version of
> Vista preloaded on the computer and the cost of 64-bit Vista. That's a
> little bit better than having to pay the full retail price of 64-bit
> Vista.
> I recently bought a laptop with 32-bit Vista on it and it came with a DVD
> for the easy upgrade process. I have not checked yet to see if 64-bit is
> an option there.


 
Reply With Quote
 
miso@sushi.com
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-17-2007
On Dec 15, 11:58 pm, "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> The website would not offer an Easy Upgrade option for anything but a higher
> 32-bit. In his case the only option would be Vista Ultimate x86 since an
> "upgrade" to Vista Business would involve a loss of functionality (VHP
> includes media center stuff, etc) and therefore EU would not offer it.
>
> Easy Upgrade offers VHP and VU if you are running VHB, and VU if you are
> running VHP. If you are running x86 it offers an x86 upgrade. If you are
> running x64 it offers an x64 upgrade.
>
> Since Easy Upgrade will never offer an option that facilitates migration
> from Vista x86 to Vista x64, what he can do is buy a Vista Home Premium
> Upgrade edition at retail and use the info contained in it to request a
> 64-bit dvd. (In truth, any retail 64-bit dvd is usable since the Product
> Key is what really matters and all retail 64-bit dvds are just alike). As
> long as he has a retail product key, anybody's retail (but not OEM) x64 dvd
> will work regardless of the edition that the dvd was used to install on the
> other person's machine.
>
> Upgrading an OEM installation with a retail upgrade edition has always been
> supported.
>
> Vista to Vista is an accepted qualifying OS for upgrade pricing. VHP x86 is
> acceptible to for upgrade pricing to ANY x86 or x64 edition of Vista. (In
> the case of VHP x86 OEM to VHP x86 retail, one simply enters the PK in the
> Change PK box on the System Properties page.)
>
> The only edition that would allow him to perform an upgrade in place would
> be VU x86. ALL others will require a Custom install.
>
> In order to install the 64-bit version he must boot the computer with a
> 64-bit dvd and provide the PK when requested (there are not different PK's
> for x86 and x64). Unlike the 32-bit version, he does not run the upgrade
> installer from the desktop (it won't anyway). The x64 Setup will search the
> system for an installation of a qualifying version of Windows (any bitness)
> and then take him through the various options. Upgrade will be greyed out
> and he will have to choose Custom at the appropriate time.
>
> Unlike the 32-bit version, the 64-bit upgrade edition does allow a true
> clean install (he can format the drive, partition, etc., once the upgrade
> qualification is verified).
>
> An upgrade PK does allow side-by-side (multiboot) installation if an
> additional partition or disk is available.
>
> He MUST have a cd ready with the 64-bit device drivers and utilities from
> the manufacturer's website (he may not have access to the internet following
> installation if the built in NIC is proprietary).
>
> (I know you know most of this but I thought I would go through the whole
> thing anyway for the sake of others reading this who would have the
> inevitable questions that always came up in the Vista ng.)
>
> "DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>
> news:eOK$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
>
> > "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail. It
> >> is not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as it
> >> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure to
> >> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail Vista
> >> to get the 64 bit.

>
> > Just checking here Colin, since I don't know the answer myself.
> > If the OP were to buy a laptop with 32-bit Vista included, would he get
> > any kind of price break on 64-bit by using MS's easy upgrade option? I
> > realize moving to 64-bit is not possible as an upgrade, per se, but I
> > wonder if at least there's some kind of price break. In other words, he
> > might only have to pay the difference between the cost of the version of
> > Vista preloaded on the computer and the cost of 64-bit Vista. That's a
> > little bit better than having to pay the full retail price of 64-bit
> > Vista.
> > I recently bought a laptop with 32-bit Vista on it and it came with a DVD
> > for the easy upgrade process. I have not checked yet to see if 64-bit is
> > an option there.


Thanks for spelling it out, though I'm not sure I'd call that plane
English. This is much more complicated than I thought.

I'm sure you have seen those stupid I'm a Mac I'm a PC commercials.
Most are lies with the exception that Apple just sells one OS.
 
Reply With Quote
 
Colin Barnhorst
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      12-17-2007
I agree. I think MS marketing went overboard with Vista. I'm sure the
developers at MS would like to see Vista Ultimate be the only edition too.
They are all proud of their products and would like to see everyone have
their software. Support would simplify somewhat as well.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Dec 15, 11:58 pm, "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> The website would not offer an Easy Upgrade option for anything but a
>> higher
>> 32-bit. In his case the only option would be Vista Ultimate x86 since an
>> "upgrade" to Vista Business would involve a loss of functionality (VHP
>> includes media center stuff, etc) and therefore EU would not offer it.
>>
>> Easy Upgrade offers VHP and VU if you are running VHB, and VU if you are
>> running VHP. If you are running x86 it offers an x86 upgrade. If you
>> are
>> running x64 it offers an x64 upgrade.
>>
>> Since Easy Upgrade will never offer an option that facilitates migration
>> from Vista x86 to Vista x64, what he can do is buy a Vista Home Premium
>> Upgrade edition at retail and use the info contained in it to request a
>> 64-bit dvd. (In truth, any retail 64-bit dvd is usable since the Product
>> Key is what really matters and all retail 64-bit dvds are just alike).
>> As
>> long as he has a retail product key, anybody's retail (but not OEM) x64
>> dvd
>> will work regardless of the edition that the dvd was used to install on
>> the
>> other person's machine.
>>
>> Upgrading an OEM installation with a retail upgrade edition has always
>> been
>> supported.
>>
>> Vista to Vista is an accepted qualifying OS for upgrade pricing. VHP x86
>> is
>> acceptible to for upgrade pricing to ANY x86 or x64 edition of Vista.
>> (In
>> the case of VHP x86 OEM to VHP x86 retail, one simply enters the PK in
>> the
>> Change PK box on the System Properties page.)
>>
>> The only edition that would allow him to perform an upgrade in place
>> would
>> be VU x86. ALL others will require a Custom install.
>>
>> In order to install the 64-bit version he must boot the computer with a
>> 64-bit dvd and provide the PK when requested (there are not different
>> PK's
>> for x86 and x64). Unlike the 32-bit version, he does not run the upgrade
>> installer from the desktop (it won't anyway). The x64 Setup will search
>> the
>> system for an installation of a qualifying version of Windows (any
>> bitness)
>> and then take him through the various options. Upgrade will be greyed
>> out
>> and he will have to choose Custom at the appropriate time.
>>
>> Unlike the 32-bit version, the 64-bit upgrade edition does allow a true
>> clean install (he can format the drive, partition, etc., once the upgrade
>> qualification is verified).
>>
>> An upgrade PK does allow side-by-side (multiboot) installation if an
>> additional partition or disk is available.
>>
>> He MUST have a cd ready with the 64-bit device drivers and utilities from
>> the manufacturer's website (he may not have access to the internet
>> following
>> installation if the built in NIC is proprietary).
>>
>> (I know you know most of this but I thought I would go through the whole
>> thing anyway for the sake of others reading this who would have the
>> inevitable questions that always came up in the Vista ng.)
>>
>> "DP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>
>> news:eOK$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Colin Barnhorst" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>>
>> >> The Vista x64 dvd would only be free if you purchase Vista at retail.
>> >> It
>> >> is not free if your computer comes with 32 bit Vista preinstalled (as
>> >> it
>> >> probably will). If you want 64 bit Vista on your new laptop, be sure
>> >> to
>> >> order the new laptop that way or you will have to purchase a retail
>> >> Vista
>> >> to get the 64 bit.

>>
>> > Just checking here Colin, since I don't know the answer myself.
>> > If the OP were to buy a laptop with 32-bit Vista included, would he get
>> > any kind of price break on 64-bit by using MS's easy upgrade option? I
>> > realize moving to 64-bit is not possible as an upgrade, per se, but I
>> > wonder if at least there's some kind of price break. In other words, he
>> > might only have to pay the difference between the cost of the version
>> > of
>> > Vista preloaded on the computer and the cost of 64-bit Vista. That's a
>> > little bit better than having to pay the full retail price of 64-bit
>> > Vista.
>> > I recently bought a laptop with 32-bit Vista on it and it came with a
>> > DVD
>> > for the easy upgrade process. I have not checked yet to see if 64-bit
>> > is
>> > an option there.

>
> Thanks for spelling it out, though I'm not sure I'd call that plane
> English. This is much more complicated than I thought.
>
> I'm sure you have seen those stupid I'm a Mac I'm a PC commercials.
> Most are lies with the exception that Apple just sells one OS.


 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intel HD Graphics 3000 and Intel HD Graphics 2000 Review Ian Front Page News 0 02-24-2011 03:07 PM
Intel compiler, efficiency of various complex number types and FFTWvs. Intel's FFT. Kazik´┐Ż C++ 4 07-06-2009 05:09 PM
Intel(R) Celeron(R) M = First Generation Intel Centrino? gz Computer Information 3 11-05-2005 04:47 AM
an Intel PRO/DSL 2100 or Intel PRO/DSL 2200 Modem roberthob Computer Support 0 09-25-2005 05:51 PM
Fedora Core 3 on Intel 310 (and possibly Intel 315) Chipset Archiver NZ Computing 1 06-02-2005 12:46 PM



Advertisments