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Windows XP 64-bit Video Games

 
 
samoukos
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      11-13-2007
Hello everyone,
i just bought the HP Pavilion dv6000 series laptop with the AMD Turion
X2 processor....And i switched from vista to the xp 32-bit operating
system. My question is ... if i install windows xp the 64-bit will
the video games be installed okay and work using the 64-bit
advantages? Because now with the 32-bit the video games dont play all
that good..

Thanks....

Sam

 
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S.SubZero
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      11-13-2007
XP64 will not make your games faster. A slow PC is a slow PC.

 
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Tony Sperling
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      11-14-2007
XP x64 has noticably better Virtual Memory performance, and it may run heavy
processes more easily. But - I agree, if it is slow it will probably not
help that much.


Tony. . .



 
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samoukos
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      11-14-2007
On 14 , 03:02, "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> XP x64 has noticably better Virtual Memory performance, and it may run heavy
> processes more easily. But - I agree, if it is slow it will probably not
> help that much.
>
> Tony. . .


Yea but my processor is 1.8Ghz each...the XP32 i think only uses the
one processor...wont the XP64 use both properly and make them
faster....i can see a big difference between the Ubuntu Linux 32bit
and the Ubuntu Linux 64bit.....should do the same for windows shouldnt
it????

 
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samoukos
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      11-14-2007
On 14 , 03:02, "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> XP x64 has noticably better Virtual Memory performance, and it may run heavy
> processes more easily. But - I agree, if it is slow it will probably not
> help that much.
>
> Tony. . .


Yea but my processor is 1.8Ghz each...the XP32 i think only uses the
one processor...wont the XP64 use both properly and make them
faster....i can see a big difference between the Ubuntu Linux 32bit
and the Ubuntu Linux 64bit.....should do the same for windows shouldnt
it????

 
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Tony Sperling
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      11-14-2007
Well, there are many misconceptions over CPU speed and 64bit dual-cores -
what you have is exactly the same as if you had a multi processor board with
two separate processors, but your processors are both crammed into one
housing. They each run at their rated speed (1.8, in your case) but this
doesn't mean you'll get 3.6Ghz if they run together sharing a process.

This is all about work-load. If you compare with a single processor CPU
running at 1.8, you will only see a performance benefit from a dual-core if
the single is running at full load more than half the time. Have you ever
had a game stop, or halt when some automatic update is kicking in? This
won't be happening with a dual-core with sufficient memory!

Same thing with the 64bit v. 32bit issue, this has nothing to do with
processing speed. This is like a highway, if you want to go from point A to
point B at a time when the highway is full, the journey will take a certain
amount of time - extending the highway by doubling the number of lanes will
allow you to travel the distance faster at that specific time. But if you
make the comparison at a time when the highway is not filled up doubling the
lanes will not have any impact at all on your traveling speed.

Unless your applications are written and compiled to take advantage of
multiple processors, they are passing on the task of scheduling to the OS.
Primarily for caching reasons, the Windows Scheduler passes jobs on to one
core untill it considers it may run a risk of having to reschedule the jobs
(wich would be an obvious waste).

XP x64 is not written on the XP code-base - it is written on the Server
code-base and therefore have a few tricks up it's sleave that XP doesn't.
When I try and figure how things are behaving here, I have a distinct
feeling that the XP x64 system is running faster, but I cannot run any
bechmark to prove the point. If there are any differences, they are small,
what it does is that it maximizes the things that are already good - but
this is precisely what a good product does - it makes you feel good about
it.

I am not familiar with the dv6000, I read a review that said it wasn't
breaking any speed records but was good for the desktop, I don't know. For
running games on a notebook, I probably wouldn't go to the expenses of
having a 64bit OS. On the other hand, it really is good and I'm sure you
will like it, if all your hardware has 64bit drivers available, (watch out
for the HP specific keyboard shortcuts, touch-pad and buttons!) but I doubt
it, that you'll think it paid off in the end? If you think the machine is
slow now, you'll probably think it's a little less slow.

One other point, most games does direct hardware programming, this requires
them to make function calls that are behaving like a driver would and so,
they have to be compiled for 64bit compatibility. Most games don't do this,
yet. Make sure that the games you are using are compatible, or you'll be
plenty sorry!


Tony. . .


"samoukos" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
> On 14 , 03:02, "Tony Sperling" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>> XP x64 has noticably better Virtual Memory performance, and it may run
>> heavy
>> processes more easily. But - I agree, if it is slow it will probably not
>> help that much.
>>
>> Tony. . .

>
> Yea but my processor is 1.8Ghz each...the XP32 i think only uses the
> one processor...wont the XP64 use both properly and make them
> faster....i can see a big difference between the Ubuntu Linux 32bit
> and the Ubuntu Linux 64bit.....should do the same for windows shouldnt
> it????
>



 
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Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]
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      11-14-2007
> One other point, most games does direct hardware programming, this
> requires them to make function calls that are behaving like a driver would
> and so, they have to be compiled for 64bit compatibility. Most games don't
> do this, yet. Make sure that the games you are using are compatible, or
> you'll be


This is a little technically inaccurate. 32-bit applications can and should
run just fine on X64 versions of Windows, but there are things they can do
wrong that break on XP but might break on XP x64 or Windows Vista x64. The
biggest problems have usally been around copy-protection technologies and
very old installers that still have little 16-bit parts that are hold-overs
from the days of Windows 3.1.

One of the big pushes we have with the Games for Windows branding program is
to make sure those games work just fine if not better on x64 versions of
Windows, although we generally push Windows Vista x64 more than we do
Windows XP x64 Edition because of the better driver support.

In summary: most developers don't really have to do anything special work to
support x64 other than write code using modern best practices, but if they
don't even try to test it at all or if it's an old game that is not really
supported anymore by the publisher, then Your Mileage May Vary.

--
Chuck Walbourn
SDE, XNA Developer Connection

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


 
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Tony Sperling
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      11-15-2007
Thanks, these are good points, and I did forget to emphasize the copy
protection as the most likely component to make wrinkles. However (although
not knowing), I have arrived at a private conclusion from pure observation
that tells me that Microsoft games avoid (almost at any cost) to use any
direct hardware programming tricks, since it is considered to be non
conforming to good windows programming practice. Conversely, everybody else
seem to do it all the time without even thinking about it and maybe they are
short of people and resort to 'Drivers' Developers to do it, but I have had
trouble with two games (the only ones I use, beyond Flight Simulator) they
are Colin mcRae Rally 4 & 5 from Codemasters, that installed fine but
wouldn't run initially, nr.5 later had an update, mostly consisting of a few
DLL's, that made it run absolutely fine. Same thing with GTR of SimBin, in
it's first version, after the update it ran fine - while GTR2 was completely
compatible from out of the box. Needless to say, all the FS versions I've
tried has been flying spotless all along. (FS2002 - FSX Demo)

Clearly, the copy protection has to be an Achille's heel - but I don't
believe it will be easy to have your code poke around inside the hardware
components via the WoW subsystem.

But I may be wrong


Tony. . .


"Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:uuNp%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> One other point, most games does direct hardware programming, this
>> requires them to make function calls that are behaving like a driver
>> would and so, they have to be compiled for 64bit compatibility. Most
>> games don't do this, yet. Make sure that the games you are using are
>> compatible, or you'll be

>
> This is a little technically inaccurate. 32-bit applications can and
> should run just fine on X64 versions of Windows, but there are things they
> can do wrong that break on XP but might break on XP x64 or Windows Vista
> x64. The biggest problems have usally been around copy-protection
> technologies and very old installers that still have little 16-bit parts
> that are hold-overs from the days of Windows 3.1.
>
> One of the big pushes we have with the Games for Windows branding program
> is to make sure those games work just fine if not better on x64 versions
> of Windows, although we generally push Windows Vista x64 more than we do
> Windows XP x64 Edition because of the better driver support.
>
> In summary: most developers don't really have to do anything special work
> to support x64 other than write code using modern best practices, but if
> they don't even try to test it at all or if it's an old game that is not
> really supported anymore by the publisher, then Your Mileage May Vary.
>
> --
> Chuck Walbourn
> SDE, XNA Developer Connection
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>



 
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Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]
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      11-15-2007
These games are likely not doing 'direct hardware' access, but relying on
specific driver behavior. Given that Windows XP x64 and Windows Vista x64
drivers are entirely new drivers, they probably are lacking all the specific
hacks the old XP 32 drivers had to make these games work.

Certainly it goes back to a lack of testing and problems in the code that
don't cause obvoius problems on XP32 that break on new versions of Windows.

--
Chuck Walbourn
SDE, XNA Developer Connection

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


 
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samoukos
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Posts: n/a
 
      11-15-2007
On 15 , 04:01, "Chuck Walbourn [MSFT]"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> These games are likely not doing 'direct hardware' access, but relying on
> specific driver behavior. Given that Windows XP x64 and Windows Vista x64
> drivers are entirely new drivers, they probably are lacking all the specific
> hacks the old XP 32 drivers had to make these games work.
>
> Certainly it goes back to a lack of testing and problems in the code that
> don't cause obvoius problems on XP32 that break on new versions of Windows..
>
> --
> Chuck Walbourn
> SDE, XNA Developer Connection
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights..


Thanks for everyone spending their time for explaining me the pros and
cons of the 64bit and the 32bit....you see i am from greece from a
tiny village in the mid of nowever and news dont travel here so
fast...the fasted internet connection we get is 4kbps....imagine the
conditions....
Thank you again for your time!!!!

Sam
 
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