«

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/

geeez.

"AirRaid" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/
>
> geeez.

Yikes . . .

I guess I'm not all *that* surprised, the place is crawling with so many
incredible jerks these days. :-/

What a wonderful forum it was years ago.


--
"There's nothing on it worthwhile, and we're not going to watch it in this
household, and I don't want it in your intellectual diet."
- Philo T. Farnsworth

Tantalust wrote:

> "AirRaid" <> wrote in message
> news: oups.com...
>
>>http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/
>>
>>geeez.
>
> Yikes . . .
>
> I guess I'm not all *that* surprised, the place is crawling with so many
> incredible jerks these days. :-/
>
> What a wonderful forum it was years ago.

Over on the Blu-ray.com forums (like we're neutral either), AVS Forums
had become a symbolic punchline/buzzword for the schoolyard tactics and
general hinder-talking that was being demonstrated by the more rabid
HDDVD supporters as public support dwindled--

Microsoft's own consumer media head Amir Majidimehr was a protected
"celebrity" on the HD forum and had been narcissistically self-promoting
King Bully on the playground--and with some of the most howling PR
propaganda/misinformation this side of Ken Graffeo--before he also had
to make an unscheduled exit from the Forums.
The kids on the BR forums would say "Did you see what they said this
week?--Let's go over there and get 'em!", and the regulars would calm
them down with "Why bother, they'll just make more..."

Derek Janssen

In article <ElLYi.4942$sN.4875@trndny02>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Tantalust wrote:
>
> > "AirRaid" <> wrote in message
> > news: oups.com...
> >
> >>http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/
> >>
> >>geeez.
> >
> > Yikes . . .
> >
> > I guess I'm not all *that* surprised, the place is crawling with so many
> > incredible jerks these days. :-/
> >
> > What a wonderful forum it was years ago.
>
> Over on the Blu-ray.com forums (like we're neutral either), AVS Forums
> had become a symbolic punchline/buzzword for the schoolyard tactics and
> general hinder-talking that was being demonstrated by the more rabid
> HDDVD supporters as public support dwindled--
>
> Microsoft's own consumer media head Amir Majidimehr was a protected
> "celebrity" on the HD forum and had been narcissistically self-promoting
> King Bully on the playground--and with some of the most howling PR
> propaganda/misinformation this side of Ken Graffeo--before he also had
> to make an unscheduled exit from the Forums.
> The kids on the BR forums would say "Did you see what they said this
> week?--Let's go over there and get 'em!", and the regulars would calm
> them down with "Why bother, they'll just make more..."
>
> Derek Janssen
>

in the meantime, the bluray forums were dropping anyone that said a
disparaging word about anything bluray...

AVS forums is more balanced that any of the fanboi sites/forums. For
every rabid HDDVD freak, there are that many rabid Bluray freaks, both
spouting misinformation at every increasing rates.

In article <PzNYi.5493$bm.2124@trndny08>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>>>http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/
> >>
> >>>What a wonderful forum it was years ago.
> >>
> >>Over on the Blu-ray.com forums (like we're neutral either), AVS Forums
> >>had become a symbolic punchline/buzzword for the schoolyard tactics and
> >>general hinder-talking that was being demonstrated by the more rabid
> >>HDDVD supporters as public support dwindled--
> >>
> >>Microsoft's own consumer media head Amir Majidimehr was a protected
> >>"celebrity" on the HD forum and had been narcissistically self-promoting
> >>King Bully on the playground--and with some of the most howling PR
> >>propaganda/misinformation this side of Ken Graffeo--before he also had
> >>to make an unscheduled exit from the Forums.
> >>The kids on the BR forums would say "Did you see what they said this
> >>week?--Let's go over there and get 'em!", and the regulars would calm
> >>them down with "Why bother, they'll just make more..."
> >
> > in the meantime, the bluray forums were dropping anyone that said a
> > disparaging word about anything bluray...
>
> (In fact, "being banned from AVS", just because Amir said yo-mamma,
> started to become something of a badge of honor, on BR.com--
> At least for those who still bothered about AVS, and didn't just shake
> their heads sadly.)
>
I've said plenty of good and bad things about HDDVD and BluRay, kind of
an equal opportunity bitcher, if you will... And I've never been banned
anywhere.

Those that get banned at AVS almost always are because they have
attacked other posters and not the posts.

> > AVS forums is more balanced that any of the fanboi sites/forums. For
> > every rabid HDDVD freak, there are that many rabid Bluray freaks, both
> > spouting misinformation at every increasing rates.
>
> Yeah, Blu fans would go around spouting things like "Transformers HD
> *still* couldn't get #1 sales vs. Blu-ray in its opening week", and "2/3
> of first-time Joe-Sixpack customers who bought $99 Toshiba A2 players at
> Wal-Mart last week LITERALLY weren't even aware of what they were buying
> in response to the hype, and thought they were buying a 'magic DVD
> player' that would turn everything HD--While the other third of longtime
> disk fans confessed that they were intentionally just buying a cheap
> upscaler, period"....
>
> While the HD Forums were still giving their readers scare stories from
> 2006 about PS3's unable to upscale DVD's, and cheering their supporters
> to the "news" that Warner had decided to release all their Harry Potter
> movies as HD-only.
>
> Derek Janssen (well, *they* believed it...)
>

The blu fans certainly don't have a problem with the 'less is more'
mentality that Sony and the other BD CEMs are passing around.

You know, less audio capability for more money, like the S300. Or hell,
practically none of the current or announced BD players will do online
interactive that Disney is spouting off about for BD. Or maybe only one
Profile 1.1 player will actually ship this year, and dates of bd movie
releases are being slid 'cause only the PS3 plays them???

And the FUD that the PS3 will be upgraded to Profile 1.1 when Sony
hasn't said that at all.

The words that come to mind most often in the BD posings is 'deception
and disarray'.

As to the HDA2, it was a hell of a bargain. If you didn't buy one you
really care more about one format than you do about movies in Hidef.
$99 for a HDDVD player that also upscales SD better than most upscalers?
Heck of a deal. BD has no answer for that as they are in the "let's rip
the early adopters off some more" mode.

In article <4733acce$0$16453$>,
"T.B." <> wrote:

> "Lloyd Parsons" wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> > in the meantime, the bluray forums were dropping anyone that said a
> > disparaging word about anything bluray...
> >
> > AVS forums is more balanced that any of the fanboi sites/forums. For
> > every rabid HDDVD freak, there are that many rabid Bluray freaks, both
> > spouting misinformation at every increasing rates.
>
> Is there another A/V board where anyone can knowledgably discuss HD, notably
> Blu-ray players? I'm in the market to buy one before the holidays and I
> have some specific questions as it relates to my Home Theater setup.
>
> T.B.

Unfortunately it is a daunting task to get good info about either format
on any board. The fanboards, like bluray.com, put out info that is
slanted to make BD look better as do the HDDVD boards for HDDVD.

On AVS, all too many threads, even the ones you wouldn't suspect, get
hijacked to fanboi attacks. That makes finding the good info difficult.

While I am not an expert, I have both BD and HDDVD and can probably
answer your questions. In the interest of fairness, I do like HDDVD
better, but I'm not a fanboi.

Here's a couple of things I would be looking at if I just had to buy a
BD player now instead of waiting until the next profile is in place and
being used.

1. While nothing is certain, it appears that the PS3 is capable of
being upgraded to the newer profile with just a firmware download.
However, Sony has not said they will do it.

2. If you have a home theater that is capable of handling the newer
codecs or LPCM in 5.1 or 7.1, then which player is important. The PS3
and some other players do TrueHD (Sony films new love), NO players
currently do DTSHD-MA (all Fox movies) in any fashion. There has been
discussion that the PS3 might and a couple of others will soon.

If I were recommending a player to buy today, I would say wait. If that
wasn't good enough, then a PS3 would be the next pick.

Heck, I may even get one myself as I'm not thrilled with my S300. I'll
wait for the give-away pricing of Black Friday to come around...

In article <biOYi.8135$Cc.2113@trndny09>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> T.B. wrote:
> > "Lloyd Parsons" wrote:
> >
> >>in the meantime, the bluray forums were dropping anyone that said a
> >>disparaging word about anything bluray...
> >>
> >>AVS forums is more balanced that any of the fanboi sites/forums. For
> >>every rabid HDDVD freak, there are that many rabid Bluray freaks, both
> >>spouting misinformation at every increasing rates.
> >
> > Is there another A/V board where anyone can knowledgably discuss HD, notably
> > Blu-ray players? I'm in the market to buy one before the holidays and I
> > have some specific questions as it relates to my Home Theater setup.
>
> Not to plug, but we're well acquainted with AVS shenanigans over on
> Blu-ray.com, and try to avoid them whenever possible, for more
> supportive "booster" forum discussions--Home theater and HDTV setups
> included.
> http://www.blu-ray.com/
> (And although the site has reviews and news-blog, don't worry, we're not
> as brown-nosingly sappy as HollywoodinHiDef.com, which Lloyd thinks we
> all are in the first place.)
>
> Some forums may be a bit skewed to the PS3 gaming community, but fact
> is, in Blu-ray, what isn't?
>
> Derek Janssen
>

And us from AVS are well acquainted with the fanboism of blu-ray.com
too! <G>

But it is a good place to get good info about which BD player to buy,
although it is a bit confusing for most. There are so many different
configurations with BD that it is difficult to get it all at any price
in one machine.

But blu-ray.com has good info for those that have decided BD is the one
to get. It is NOT at all good for those that are looking to decide
which is better. I'm not real sure that any site is very good at that
these days.

Personally I would have bought the $99 HDDVD player. At about the cost
of a good evening out on the town for two, you get an excellent player.
And then buy whichever BD player blows your skirt up. That way you're
covered while all the battles are being fought by us peons on behalf of
the big greedy corporations...

Lloyd Parsons wrote:

>>>
>>>>http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/07/f...-more-warlike/
>>
>>>What a wonderful forum it was years ago.
>>
>>Over on the Blu-ray.com forums (like we're neutral either), AVS Forums
>>had become a symbolic punchline/buzzword for the schoolyard tactics and
>>general hinder-talking that was being demonstrated by the more rabid
>>HDDVD supporters as public support dwindled--
>>
>>Microsoft's own consumer media head Amir Majidimehr was a protected
>>"celebrity" on the HD forum and had been narcissistically self-promoting
>>King Bully on the playground--and with some of the most howling PR
>>propaganda/misinformation this side of Ken Graffeo--before he also had
>>to make an unscheduled exit from the Forums.
>>The kids on the BR forums would say "Did you see what they said this
>>week?--Let's go over there and get 'em!", and the regulars would calm
>>them down with "Why bother, they'll just make more..."
>
> in the meantime, the bluray forums were dropping anyone that said a
> disparaging word about anything bluray...

(In fact, "being banned from AVS", just because Amir said yo-mamma,
started to become something of a badge of honor, on BR.com--
At least for those who still bothered about AVS, and didn't just shake
their heads sadly.)

> AVS forums is more balanced that any of the fanboi sites/forums. For
> every rabid HDDVD freak, there are that many rabid Bluray freaks, both
> spouting misinformation at every increasing rates.

Yeah, Blu fans would go around spouting things like "Transformers HD
*still* couldn't get #1 sales vs. Blu-ray in its opening week", and "2/3
of first-time Joe-Sixpack customers who bought $99 Toshiba A2 players at
Wal-Mart last week LITERALLY weren't even aware of what they were buying
in response to the hype, and thought they were buying a 'magic DVD
player' that would turn everything HD--While the other third of longtime
disk fans confessed that they were intentionally just buying a cheap
upscaler, period"....

While the HD Forums were still giving their readers scare stories from
2006 about PS3's unable to upscale DVD's, and cheering their supporters
to the "news" that Warner had decided to release all their Harry Potter
movies as HD-only.

Derek Janssen (well, *they* believed it...)

In article <yuOYi.8140$Cc.5865@trndny09>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >
> > As to the HDA2, it was a hell of a bargain. If you didn't buy one you
> > really care more about one format than you do about movies in Hidef.
> > $99 for a HDDVD player that also upscales SD better than most upscalers?
> > Heck of a deal. BD has no answer for that as they are in the "let's rip
> > the early adopters off some more" mode.
>
> Well, the answer, at least the one we've gotten from the neutrals that
> wanted a "cheap upscaler" is, that it's not a very GOOD upscaler.
> Edges, artifacts, everything that the neutrals have been complaining
> about with X-box upscaling, and without at least the decency of a few
> games once in a while.
> (And that's leaving aside the fact that most of those who bought their
> A2's backordered from Best Buy found out they'd be automatically
> replaced with the next A3's, which is...*really* going to make a few
> thousand Wal-Mart buyers happy.)
>
> Sony, meanwhile, has always been one hell of an upscaler (as I found out
> when I tried to get a progressive LG to replace my old standard Sony,
> and discovered it was a step down)--
> And given that the same Sony parts are in PS3's playback...no, wait, did
> I *actually* see you trying to do the 2006 pre-firmware "PS3 doesn't
> upscale SD" bit in public?
> No, c'mon, don't give me that look, admit it, that's what you thought
> that whole "No answer" thing was, you WERE, weren't you?
>
> (...HEY, GUYS!!!
> <points>
> Guess who's still doing the old "PS3 doesn't upscale" bit!)
>
> Derek Janssen
>

The HDA2 does a slightly better job at upscaling than does my S300. But
it is very slight.

And no, I know the PS3 will do upscaling.

If you are going to try to put words in my mouth, at least put the ones
I said there. Or feel free to show where I said what you claimed...

In article <JAOYi.12989$%n.6827@trndny07>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >
> > Personally I would have bought the $99 HDDVD player.
>
> But...you DIDN'T, did you?
>
> And now basically just parroting the PR about how nice it is to have a
> cheap player to put in your shopping cart, and feel clever that you got
> a bargain, and want to thumb your nose at big fat executives with
> cigars, regardless of picture quality, software availability, or any
> actual applied experience?
>
> > At about the cost
> > of a good evening out on the town for two, you get an excellent player.
> > And then buy whichever BD player blows your skirt up. That way you're
> > covered while all the battles are being fought by us peons on behalf of
> > the big greedy corporations...
>
> (Ooo-kay...Answers that question.)
>
> Derek Janssen (bystander readers, apply credibility accordingly)
>

Matter of fact I bought my HDA2 when they first started shipping. I
also bought the Sony BDP-S300 when it first started shipping.

I enjoy movies on both in Hidef, virtually identical in performance and
software availability.

The only practical differences between the two formats is price and
which titles are there. The potential is there for BD to be better, but
it isn't being used. And which has better titles is strictly an opinion.