«

"KB" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Thanks Shel-hed
> I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
> box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb mouse)
> was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that stage that
> it would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals relating to
> this problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub' tomorrow - I'm not
> sure what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what advantage i would gain?!?
> KB
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Shel-hed" <mush-> wrote in message
> news:...
>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Whiskers
>>>The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
>>>The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by
>>>USB
>>>for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).
>>
>> That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and
>> see what
>> it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't
>> easily
>> fixable.
>> Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
>>
>>
>>
>
>


KB

In theory each USB hub can have up to 128 devices connected to it but the
total power draw is limited to 500ma (half an amp)

By plugging in a powered (as in mains plug pack) USB hub, the power pack
will allow each outlet to supply up to 500ma for each socket and just leave
the USB socket it's plugged into to handle the data streams.

Therefore by installing a two port USB PCI card and plugging in a 4 outlet
powered USB hub into each one you end up with 8 USB outlets, 2 more than you
had before.

Do be aware some devices do not like being plugged into this sort of
arrangement so a PCI card with many USB outlets built in is usually better.

Best
Paul.

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:21:40 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:

>Thanks Shel-hed
>I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
>box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb mouse)
>was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that stage that it
>would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals relating to this
>problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub' tomorrow - I'm not sure
>what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what advantage i would gain?!?
>KB

The USB hub would supply the power and absorb any damage if your PVR unit is
pharked.

Thanks All

My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
original damage but it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there is
any other damage to the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
any. . . .

KB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"PeeCee" <> wrote in message
news:fgtvkf$64o$...
> "KB" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Thanks Shel-hed
>> I'm sure the word 'surge' was there in the message. It said 'Click this
>> box...etc' but at the time that wasn't possible as the pointer (usb
>> mouse) was frozen and the k/bd didn't work. So I also assumed at that
>> stage that it would be repairable. I don't see anything in the manuals
>> relating to this problem. I will read up about a 'powered usb hub'
>> tomorrow - I'm not sure what it is (pardon my ignorance) or what
>> advantage i would gain?!?
>> KB
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> "Shel-hed" <mush-> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0000, "KB" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Whiskers
>>>>The sockets are at in three pairs a long way apart on the m/bd.
>>>>The surge may have come from a Topfield PVR which connects to the PC by
>>>>USB
>>>>for transferring files (mp3's, videos..).
>>>
>>> That sounds more like an overload than a surge. Check your manual and
>>> see what
>>> it says. There would be no use putting up an alert screen if it wasn't
>>> easily
>>> fixable.
>>> Once you get it fixed, you might want to try a powered usb hub.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> KB
>
> In theory each USB hub can have up to 128 devices connected to it but the
> total power draw is limited to 500ma (half an amp)
>
> By plugging in a powered (as in mains plug pack) USB hub, the power pack
> will allow each outlet to supply up to 500ma for each socket and just
> leave the USB socket it's plugged into to handle the data streams.
>
> Therefore by installing a two port USB PCI card and plugging in a 4 outlet
> powered USB hub into each one you end up with 8 USB outlets, 2 more than
> you had before.
>
> Do be aware some devices do not like being plugged into this sort of
> arrangement so a PCI card with many USB outlets built in is usually
> better.
>
> Best
> Paul.

Thanks, I'm on my way!
KB

"pcbutts1" <> wrote in message
news:fgtm5a$5g1$...
> Get the card and a USB hub.
>
> --
>
> Newsgroup Trolls. Read about mine here http://www.pcbutts1.com/downloads
> The list grows. Leythos the stalker http://www.leythosthestalker.com,
> David H. Lipman, Max M Wachtell III aka What's in a Name?, Fitz,
> Rhonda Lea Kirk, Meat Plow, F Kwatu F, George Orwell
>
>
>
> "KB" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Thanks meerkat, that could the answer once and for all if I could get
>> away with fitting more than one card to make up the original 6 slots (or
>> more). I have 2 spaces. Would that be OK do you know??
>>
>> "meerkat" <> wrote in message
>> news:GJpYi.12117$...
>>>
>>> "KB" <> wrote in message
>>> news:...
>>>> All 6 USB sockets have gone dead. A message came on the screen saying
>>>> that a surge had overloaded a usb socket and from then on the pointer
>>>> froze and the keyboard stopped working. Once the screensaver came on I
>>>> was in the dark so I turned off with 4 seconds on the button.
>>>> I went and bought the cheapest SP/2 mouse & K/bd which put things back
>>>> in action - except the usb sockets.
>>>> I'm running Windows XP/SP2. Motherboard Gigabyte GA-81848PM; Pentium
>>>> 4 - 3.4g.
>>>> Any ideas?? Please go easy on the tech-speak my knowledge is limited!
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>> KB
>>> If you`ve got a spare PCI slot on your Mboard, then
>>> fit a USB2-PCI card.
>>> That`ll give you some USB2 slots to work with.
>>> example here..
>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/NISIS-extern.../dp/B000684LDS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

On Nov 8, 3:30 am, "KB" <kabe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
> hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
> originaldamagebut it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there is
> any otherdamageto the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
> any. . . .

First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
safely cut off.

A completely different 'surge' means appliance damage. The Topfield
PVR is apparently powered on a different circuit breaker - different
AC power circuit. Therefore a defect in the Topfield PVR could be
pushing current into the USB interface. Damaged may be the circuit
that monitors how much power is consumed. IOW the current monitoring
circuit can no longer report or provide power (type A surge detector)
because the Topfield PVR has internal hardware defects creating USB
hardware destructive voltaged (Type B surge creator).

Meanwhile, none of this would cause any harm to any other parts of
the computer. To create other computer damage, the USB cable may
spark (audible detected) when connected or disconnected.

Of course, like so many other posts, this is only speculation since
nothing definitive (especially numbers) has been provided. But most
accurate is that the 'surge' that is discussed on the computer screen
is not a destructive surge AND would not explain non-functional USB
ports.

In article < om>, w_tom1
@usa.net says...
> First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
> completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
> surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
> means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
> safely cut off.

How do you explain the motherboards that have BAD USB ports where the
foil is burned off the motherboard - USB Ports can be fried.

--

Leythos - (remove 999 to email me)

Fight exposing kids to porn, complain about sites like PCBUTTS 1.COM
that create filth and put it on the web for any kid to see: Just take a
look at some of the FILTH he's created and put on his website:
http://forums.speedguide.net/archive.../t-223485.html all exposed
to children (the link I've include does not directly display his filth).
You can find the same information by googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and
'exposed to kids'.

Thankyou for your further observations,

There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
electronic component?
(As a novice I can only use logic so forgive me if I speak jibberish).
If the current-monitoring circuit has been damaged wouldn't this show up
somewhere? - in the device manager, perhaps?

KB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"w_tom" <> wrote in message
news: ps.com...
> On Nov 8, 3:30 am, "KB" <kabe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> My next step is to get a 3 or 4 port PCI card and a 4 outlet powered USB
>> hub. This gives 6 or 7 outlets AND the 'option'. It still doesn't fix the
>> originaldamagebut it seems I'll be better off!! TIme will tell if there
>> is
>> any otherdamageto the motherboard but so far there doesn't appear to be
>> any. . . .
>
> First use of 'surge' is completely distorted here. There are two
> completley different words 'surge'. The error message of a USB power
> surge means the USB peripheral draws too much power. That 'surge'
> means no damage. USB ports can only provide so much power - and then
> safely cut off.
>
> A completely different 'surge' means appliance damage. The Topfield
> PVR is apparently powered on a different circuit breaker - different
> AC power circuit. Therefore a defect in the Topfield PVR could be
> pushing current into the USB interface. Damaged may be the circuit
> that monitors how much power is consumed. IOW the current monitoring
> circuit can no longer report or provide power (type A surge detector)
> because the Topfield PVR has internal hardware defects creating USB
> hardware destructive voltaged (Type B surge creator).
>
> Meanwhile, none of this would cause any harm to any other parts of
> the computer. To create other computer damage, the USB cable may
> spark (audible detected) when connected or disconnected.
>
> Of course, like so many other posts, this is only speculation since
> nothing definitive (especially numbers) has been provided. But most
> accurate is that the 'surge' that is discussed on the computer screen
> is not a destructive surge AND would not explain non-functional USB
> ports.
>

On Nov 8, 5:34 pm, "KB" <kabe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
> all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
> nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
> ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
> part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
> together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
> electronic component?

First define what originally existed. All six USB ports would be
driven by one USB controller. Each port has two functions - 5 volt
power and bidirectional data. Often the controller talks to each
connector via a data interface and via a power monitor chip.

Second, computer (Device Manager) can only talk to USB controller.
Failures beyond a USB controller can only be detected if the USB
controller sees them and has programming to detect them. But USB
computer only sees basic functions - has few if any diagnostics to
report interface failures.

Third, learn if 5 volts even exists on those USB ports. A simplest
test would be a device that operates at less than 100 ma such as an
LED light attached to a USB connector. These are sometimes sold in
Dollar Shops for, well, $1. Which ports even have that power? Power
should be available even without any USB controller actions.

Fourth, information may be available from USB diagnostics - system
diagnostics only available from more responsible computer
manufacturers. Another diagnostic source would be USB controller chip
manufacturer. Device manager would not look at any of this. Device
Manager only reports if software is talking to the USB controller -
nothing more. If no diagnostics, then improvisation is necessary.

Five, if no ports can even light the LED, then trace each five volt
line to motherboard. Each five volt would have some interface to a
power control chip AND to a 10 uf capacitor (the industry standard
circuit) in each circuit. Best is to trace this with the continuity
function of a meter. There may be an inline resistor or fuse blown
that could be replaced with care. One fuse probably would power all
six ports. You are less interested in fixing it as much as knowing
what and why failed. Did that peripheral destroy your USB ports?
Knowing rather than fixing is more important.

Six, I cannot think of a simple way you might confirm the data half
of each USB port still has good hardware. Again, a defective USB
device could have pushed 60 or 120 VAC through that data interface
chip. Damaged electronics rarely leave any visual indication such as
damaged parts or burned traces. Still, inspection might reveal useful
facts in seconds. But inspection means first tracing those USB port
connections back to the USB controller and adjacent parts.

Seven, easier may be to buy a few USB controllers for the PCI port,
then duplicate the USB connection. If the USB peripheral is hardware
defective, then you will have another maybe $10 damaged USB card.
Just a few first and simple suggestions. I cannot say enough about
trying to find a comprehensive hardware diagnostic either from the
computer manufacturer or from the USB controller chip manufacturer. A
diagnostics is most useful when Windows is not running.

Eight, finally, did you look at the history of problems in the
system (event) logs? To help find them, use Windows Help.

Just a few fast and simple ideas to start the investigation.

Hi w_tom
I am indebted to you for the effort you have put into this. I have printed
your post out and will follow your guide lines step by step. This morning I
have installed a 5-port PCI card (hence the printer working) and as I have
other commitments just now I will make do for the moment with what is
working, and once again 'pull the plug' on the Topfield.
One thing is for sure: I have learnt a thing or two, in fact more than two
from your post alone!!
Thanks again - I will post again with the outcome but it may be a little
while.
KB

"w_tom" <> wrote in message
news: oups.com...
> On Nov 8, 5:34 pm, "KB" <kabe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact
>> that
>> all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
>> nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to
>> the
>> ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a
>> different
>> part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went
>> off
>> together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
>> electronic component?
>
> First define what originally existed. All six USB ports would be
> driven by one USB controller. Each port has two functions - 5 volt
> power and bidirectional data. Often the controller talks to each
> connector via a data interface and via a power monitor chip.
>
> Second, computer (Device Manager) can only talk to USB controller.
> Failures beyond a USB controller can only be detected if the USB
> controller sees them and has programming to detect them. But USB
> computer only sees basic functions - has few if any diagnostics to
> report interface failures.
>
> Third, learn if 5 volts even exists on those USB ports. A simplest
> test would be a device that operates at less than 100 ma such as an
> LED light attached to a USB connector. These are sometimes sold in
> Dollar Shops for, well, $1. Which ports even have that power? Power
> should be available even without any USB controller actions.
>
> Fourth, information may be available from USB diagnostics - system
> diagnostics only available from more responsible computer
> manufacturers. Another diagnostic source would be USB controller chip
> manufacturer. Device manager would not look at any of this. Device
> Manager only reports if software is talking to the USB controller -
> nothing more. If no diagnostics, then improvisation is necessary.
>
> Five, if no ports can even light the LED, then trace each five volt
> line to motherboard. Each five volt would have some interface to a
> power control chip AND to a 10 uf capacitor (the industry standard
> circuit) in each circuit. Best is to trace this with the continuity
> function of a meter. There may be an inline resistor or fuse blown
> that could be replaced with care. One fuse probably would power all
> six ports. You are less interested in fixing it as much as knowing
> what and why failed. Did that peripheral destroy your USB ports?
> Knowing rather than fixing is more important.
>
> Six, I cannot think of a simple way you might confirm the data half
> of each USB port still has good hardware. Again, a defective USB
> device could have pushed 60 or 120 VAC through that data interface
> chip. Damaged electronics rarely leave any visual indication such as
> damaged parts or burned traces. Still, inspection might reveal useful
> facts in seconds. But inspection means first tracing those USB port
> connections back to the USB controller and adjacent parts.
>
> Seven, easier may be to buy a few USB controllers for the PCI port,
> then duplicate the USB connection. If the USB peripheral is hardware
> defective, then you will have another maybe $10 damaged USB card.
> Just a few first and simple suggestions. I cannot say enough about
> trying to find a comprehensive hardware diagnostic either from the
> computer manufacturer or from the USB controller chip manufacturer. A
> diagnostics is most useful when Windows is not running.
>
> Eight, finally, did you look at the history of problems in the
> system (event) logs? To help find them, use Windows Help.
>
> Just a few fast and simple ideas to start the investigation.
>

KB wrote:
> Thankyou for your further observations,
>
> There is now no apparent evidence of this incident other than the fact that
> all 6 (3 pairs) usb ports don't work. The Device Manager indicates that
> nothing is wrong. With regard to the possibility of physical damage to the
> ports, it seems odd that each of the 3 pairs of usb ports is on a different
> part of the motherboard (a few inches apart) and yet all six ports went off
> together. If there is a circuit-breaker is it in the software or an
> electronic component?
> (As a novice I can only use logic so forgive me if I speak jibberish).
> If the current-monitoring circuit has been damaged wouldn't this show up
> somewhere? - in the device manager, perhaps?
>
> KB
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interesting thing about solid state electronic parts, they blow first to
save on fuses and avoid tripping breakers. They also fail in numerous ways.

FWIW, "Device Mangler"s 'device is working properly' message is about
worthless. I can put in a non-reading floppy or CDdrive in a machine and
get the 'working' tale. Same with a frozen harddrive.

I'm making a Scientific Wild-Assed Guess as to the exact cause of the
failure of those USB ports. Your USB functions are handled by a special
purpose IC and/or the southbridge chip of the motherboard's chipset. One
or both of these have a malfunction. Even if it's a separate IC, same
IC could also be handling other functions.

As for physical location being different for your bad USB ports, that's
an engineer's decision. Circuit traces for the jacks are far less
demanding than the location of either a USB support chip or the
southbridge IC of the chipset.

Back in ancient times well before USB, serial/parallel/floppy/harddrive
inputs and outputs were usually on cards rather than on/in the
motherboard. Easy fix, replace the card!

Later, progressively more of these I/Os moved onto the motherboard, but
each function was handled by a single set of parts on the mobo. Still an
easy fix , but now the bad part on the motherboard could further fail by
shorting power or a buss connection which in turn causes a new set of
problems. More risk, but installing an add-in card to get that function
back usually repairs the problem.

Recent motherboards have so many functions built into so few ICs. The
USB part of a chip may be physically right next to another unrelated
circuit. Whatever blew in the USB area could have easily weakened
something else that crops up later. That's the risk you have now by
going with the add-in USB card.

I'd gamble on going with the USB card. Just keep decent backups in case
something goes gunnybag later.

Just remember to turn OFF your existing USB ports in BIOS.

XP sure hosed up replacing bad motherboards or upgrading. Back in the
95/98 days, I've slid as many as 5 totally different motherboards into a
working system over time. (Faster! More Flash! Gotta Have It!) Yes, I
had to use a hammer and mace on Device Mangler and screw with drivers,
but it worked.