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Derek Janssen <> wrote in news:gusQi.1521$2h2.142
@trndny01:

> Because companies who made the parts and the disks no longer had to
> worry about which horse to back, and could mass-produce one standard of
> products on a larger scale, thereby making the assemblies cheaper and
> easier to adopt...
> Life After Wartime.

But... but... competitttiioooonnnn!!! Competition brings prices down
and is always good for customers! My ninth grade econonomics class taught
me that and I haven't learned a damned thing since then!!

....yeah, I'm getting tired of hearing that argument too.


--

Aaron J. Bossig

http://www.GodsLabRat.com

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:09:03 -0700, Winfield <>
wrote:

>Thank Ewe for applying at *Blew-Ray Blue Balls* consortium. It is a
>great honor to be exposed to the likes of yourself.
>
>That picture of you -- flaunting your man-breasts on Hollywood Boulevard
>almost clinched it. However, we are sorry to say that donkey-wiping
>talent just isn't in vogue this calendar decade.
>
>Thank you for your Sincere Groveling,
> BrBB (Chairman of the Bored)
>
> Roy L. Fuchs


You could be a bit more retarded, WinTard, just not in this life!

Tarkus <> wrote:
> Doug Jacobs wrote:
> >
> > * More likely than not, we'll see hybrid or combo players before too
> > long. While this solves the consumer's conndrum of choosing between, say,
> > Transformers and Pirates, it basically turns the HD video market into the
> > same mess that is today's burnable DVD market.

> What's so messy about today's burnable DVD market?

You've got DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and then dual-layer variations of
all of those.

Some devices can only play DVD-R(W)s, whereas some can only play DVD+R(W)s.

Which is which? Well, you won't know until you burn yourself a few
coasters!

Yeah, that's a consumer friendly solution! Let's release 2 formats that do
the same thing, with no discernable differences to the consumer, and let
them "choose" a winner! Oh wait, here's a multi-format burner that can
handle both formats! So now both formats can "survive" but individual
manfuacturers are still free to decide which format their devices will
support. Yeah, that's a good win-win solution for everyone! Well, except
for the consumer.

Meanwhile, a CDR is a CDR is a CDR. There's none of this stupidity of
having 2 identical, but incompatible, formats.

Going forward, do you see the HD formats getting any easier? We'll have
Blu-Ray, Blu-Ray-R, Blu-Ray-RW and its variations for multi-layers, then
we'll have HD-DVD, HD-DVD-R, HD-DVD-RW and its own variations for its
multilayered discs.

--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Doug Jacobs wrote:
> Tarkus <> wrote:
>> Doug Jacobs wrote:
>>> * More likely than not, we'll see hybrid or combo players before too
>>> long. While this solves the consumer's conndrum of choosing between, say,
>>> Transformers and Pirates, it basically turns the HD video market into the
>>> same mess that is today's burnable DVD market.
>
>> What's so messy about today's burnable DVD market?
>
> You've got DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and then dual-layer variations of
> all of those.
>
> Some devices can only play DVD-R(W)s, whereas some can only play DVD+R(W)s.
>
> Which is which? Well, you won't know until you burn yourself a few
> coasters!

That's pretty much an obsolete problem. Virtually all new players play
all formats (save for maybe DVD-RAM), and most consumers, myself
included, don't even pay attention to -R and +R anymore, and just look
for the best deal. If HD combo players become the norm, the same thing
will happen.

Tarkus wrote:
>
> That's pretty much an obsolete problem. Virtually all new players play
> all formats (save for maybe DVD-RAM), and most consumers, myself
> included, don't even pay attention to -R and +R anymore, and just look
> for the best deal. If HD combo players become the norm, the same thing
> will happen.

Yeah, we just have to wait five or so years until $1200 players meet the
even "maximum" $500-$600 of an average-level Blu player--

And then people won't have to pat their "cleverness" on the back for
going out and buying both separately just to be snotty about it, and
then wondering why they can find so few HD-DVD disks for sale or rental.

(Patience is a virtue, people...
Sometimes, the team that's ahead in the third quarter wins the game anyway.)

Derek Janssen

In article <AibRi.2612$pl2.1912@trndny09>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Tarkus wrote:
> >
> > That's pretty much an obsolete problem. Virtually all new players play
> > all formats (save for maybe DVD-RAM), and most consumers, myself
> > included, don't even pay attention to -R and +R anymore, and just look
> > for the best deal. If HD combo players become the norm, the same thing
> > will happen.
>
> Yeah, we just have to wait five or so years until $1200 players meet the
> even "maximum" $500-$600 of an average-level Blu player--
>
> And then people won't have to pat their "cleverness" on the back for
> going out and buying both separately just to be snotty about it, and
> then wondering why they can find so few HD-DVD disks for sale or rental.
>
> (Patience is a virtue, people...
> Sometimes, the team that's ahead in the third quarter wins the game anyway.)
>
> Derek Janssen
>

Last count, there are as many HDDVDs out there as there are Blu Ray.

And Netflix is seeing more interest in HDDVD vs Blu Ray.

Of course, both are such miniscule volumes it really doesn't matter at
this point.

Lloyd Parsons wrote:>
>
>>Tarkus wrote:
>>
>>>That's pretty much an obsolete problem. Virtually all new players play
>>>all formats (save for maybe DVD-RAM), and most consumers, myself
>>>included, don't even pay attention to -R and +R anymore, and just look
>>>for the best deal. If HD combo players become the norm, the same thing
>>>will happen.
>>
>>Yeah, we just have to wait five or so years until $1200 players meet the
>>even "maximum" $500-$600 of an average-level Blu player--
>>
>>And then people won't have to pat their "cleverness" on the back for
>>going out and buying both separately just to be snotty about it, and
>>then wondering why they can find so few HD-DVD disks for sale or rental.
>>
>>(Patience is a virtue, people...
>>Sometimes, the team that's ahead in the third quarter wins the game anyway.)
>>
> And Netflix is seeing more interest in HDDVD vs Blu Ray.

They're seeing more RENTALS than Blu-ray, if that's the numbers they're
counting.

(While Blu fans tend to be still at that 90's birth-of-DVD stage where
they think they have to rush out and buy "Twister" the day it's
released...When you throw sales figures into the mix, HD-DVD users
apparently don't seem to be *buying* HD-DVD as much as they watch it.)

And I repeat: Guys, it's *okay* now. There's nothing wrong with liking
Blu-ray in public anymore.
Blu-D00d hasn't been back here in months.

Derek Janssen (we must conquer our fears and traumas)

In article <ZIcRi.3605$GM2.1514@trndny02>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:

> Lloyd Parsons wrote:>
> >
> >>Tarkus wrote:
> >>
> >>>That's pretty much an obsolete problem. Virtually all new players play
> >>>all formats (save for maybe DVD-RAM), and most consumers, myself
> >>>included, don't even pay attention to -R and +R anymore, and just look
> >>>for the best deal. If HD combo players become the norm, the same thing
> >>>will happen.
> >>
> >>Yeah, we just have to wait five or so years until $1200 players meet the
> >>even "maximum" $500-$600 of an average-level Blu player--
> >>
> >>And then people won't have to pat their "cleverness" on the back for
> >>going out and buying both separately just to be snotty about it, and
> >>then wondering why they can find so few HD-DVD disks for sale or rental.
> >>
> >>(Patience is a virtue, people...
> >>Sometimes, the team that's ahead in the third quarter wins the game anyway.)
> >>
> > And Netflix is seeing more interest in HDDVD vs Blu Ray.
>
> They're seeing more RENTALS than Blu-ray, if that's the numbers they're
> counting.
>
> (While Blu fans tend to be still at that 90's birth-of-DVD stage where
> they think they have to rush out and buy "Twister" the day it's
> released...When you throw sales figures into the mix, HD-DVD users
> apparently don't seem to be *buying* HD-DVD as much as they watch it.)
>
> And I repeat: Guys, it's *okay* now. There's nothing wrong with liking
> Blu-ray in public anymore.
> Blu-D00d hasn't been back here in months.
>
> Derek Janssen (we must conquer our fears and traumas)
>

Nice try...

Given the MUCH larger numbers of Blu Ray players compared to HDDVD
players, HDDVD guys are buying as much as the BD guys are.

But I think the reason for the Netflix HDDVD results is that for those
that rent, the HDDVD player at less than $300 is a much better buy.

And since the only real practical difference between the two formats is
which studio is releasing for them, I think we will continue to see the
same percentages for quite some time.

If the phony war was over today, I see no way that BD would win.
Players are more expensive while being less featured. The PQ/AQ of what
is actually released on both is the same when the studios bother to take
advantage of it. The BD camp is in disarray with the new profiles
supposedly coming at the end of the month, but yet no new profile player
will be on sale before next year. And while my HDA2 has played every
HDDVD I ever stuck in it without a firmware upgrade, that hasn't been
true at all in the BD camp. And the new players that are profile 1.0
only with no way to upgrade them at prices that are way too high.

Every single indicator that you look at in the BD camp is that the
product was rushed to market long before it was ready. We that have
bought them are paying a premium to do the Beta testing for these mfgs.

The PS3 is the only real saving grace in the BD camp and even it isn't
safe. Lots of the BD fan club is convinced that the PS3 can and will be
upgraded to the new profiles, but Sony has been completely mum about it.
And then there is the issue of the PS3 being a game machine and lots of
us wouldn't buy it at all because of that.

The signals coming out of the BD mfgs and studios is mass confusion
about what it takes to create a market that is profitable and popular.
The new ads talk about the interactive stuff in the newer profiles with
no machine capable of doing that on the market. Call it potential or
call it lies, but what it is, is deception. And that is a shame.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:54:06 -0500, Lloyd Parsons <>
wrote:

>The PS3 is the only real saving grace in the BD camp and even it isn't
>safe. Lots of the BD fan club is convinced that the PS3 can and will be
>upgraded to the new profiles, but Sony has been completely mum about it.
>And then there is the issue of the PS3 being a game machine and lots of
>us wouldn't buy it at all because of that.


Upgrade? Where have you been? The PS3 NOW does True HD non compressed
audio.

My PS3 has a 120GB HD in it, and that is only for now. Next week, it
jumps to 320GB, and it will have at least three Linux distros on it.

It will use a 7200rpm 3.5" HD and not a squeamish laptop drive, and I
will develop Cell BE applications on it.

It also plays HD BR movies.

It ALSO plays games.

Hell, the linux install I have has over 6000 of the old, full upright
arcade games and SDL Mame on it. Those games are bigger on my box than
they ever were in any stinking arcade!

PS3s are cool!

In article <>,
AnimalMagic <> wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:54:06 -0500, Lloyd Parsons <>
> wrote:
>
> >The PS3 is the only real saving grace in the BD camp and even it isn't
> >safe. Lots of the BD fan club is convinced that the PS3 can and will be
> >upgraded to the new profiles, but Sony has been completely mum about it.
> >And then there is the issue of the PS3 being a game machine and lots of
> >us wouldn't buy it at all because of that.
>
>
> Upgrade? Where have you been? The PS3 NOW does True HD non compressed
> audio.
>
> My PS3 has a 120GB HD in it, and that is only for now. Next week, it
> jumps to 320GB, and it will have at least three Linux distros on it.
>
> It will use a 7200rpm 3.5" HD and not a squeamish laptop drive, and I
> will develop Cell BE applications on it.
>
> It also plays HD BR movies.
>
> It ALSO plays games.
>
> Hell, the linux install I have has over 6000 of the old, full upright
> arcade games and SDL Mame on it. Those games are bigger on my box than
> they ever were in any stinking arcade!
>
> PS3s are cool!

Nothing wrong with the PS3 except for the poor sales compared to other
gaming systems, and the relative lack of quality games specifically for
it.

But TrueHD has exactly zero to do with Profile 1.1. Profile 1.1, among
other things, requires interactivity like PIP and such. While the
feeling is that the PS3 has enough ooomph to be upgraded via firmware to
that new profile, Sony is completely mum about it.

So maybe you should answer where you've been!

And that is the point. Even assuming that the PS3 will be upgraded to
the new profile, all the rest of the BD players cannot be. So it is
either buy a new BD player, buy a PS3 or do without the new to BD things
that profile 1.1 allows for.