Velocity Reviews - Computer Hardware Reviews

Velocity Reviews > Newsgroups > Computing > Digital Photography > Question on Circular polarizer and rotating lens element

Reply
Thread Tools

Question on Circular polarizer and rotating lens element

 
 
PGPS
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
Hi,
If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
make it useless. As I understand optics, a circular polarizer
basically changes the phase between the electrical and magnetic
field.

1. Am I right in saying that a cirucular polarizer is basically a
linerar polarizer + a quarter wave (QW) plate.
2. So, its the rotation of the linear polarizer element which causes
the problem, since it can either polarize or not-polarize (according
to the orientation).

Any suggestions, links, etc.?

Thanks.

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Doug McDonald
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
PGPS wrote:
> Hi,
> If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
> rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
> make it useless. As I understand optics, a circular polarizer
> basically changes the phase between the electrical and magnetic
> field.
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that a cirucular polarizer is basically a
> linerar polarizer + a quarter wave (QW) plate.
> 2. So, its the rotation of the linear polarizer element which causes
> the problem, since it can either polarize or not-polarize (according
> to the orientation).
>
> Any suggestions, links, etc.?
>



Basically what you say is true. Note that the actual polarizer element
faces to the subject and the quarter wave place is toward the camera.

If the lens front rotates, you must either rotate the polarizer
to the correct position after it stops, or, if that is impossible,
simply use your third hand to hold the polarizer in front of the
lens, not attached to it. This works if you have even a modestly
steady hand.

Doug McDonald
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Scott W
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
PGPS wrote:
> Hi,
> If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
> rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
> make it useless. As I understand optics, a circular polarizer
> basically changes the phase between the electrical and magnetic
> field.
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that a cirucular polarizer is basically a
> linerar polarizer + a quarter wave (QW) plate.
> 2. So, its the rotation of the linear polarizer element which causes
> the problem, since it can either polarize or not-polarize (according
> to the orientation).
>
> Any suggestions, links, etc.?
>
> Thanks.
>


Well to start it does not change the phase between the electrical and
magnetic fields, it changes the phase between two orientations of
polarization.

The quarter wave plate is on the camera side of the filter as far as hot
it filters light coming in it acts just light a linear filter, but the
light that exits the filter is circular. The reason not just letting
the linear light continue through the camera is many cameras get their
light meters messed up when using linear polarized light.

An easy way to look at this is look through the filter as the camera
would and rotate it, you will see the normal effects, now look through
it backwards and you should not see any effects of polarization.

Scott
 
Reply With Quote
 
Ockham's Razor
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed). com>,
PGPS <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi,
> If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
> rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
> make it useless. As I understand optics, a circular polarizer
> basically changes the phase between the electrical and magnetic
> field.
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that a cirucular polarizer is basically a
> linerar polarizer + a quarter wave (QW) plate.
> 2. So, its the rotation of the linear polarizer element which causes
> the problem, since it can either polarize or not-polarize (according
> to the orientation).
>
> Any suggestions, links, etc.?
>
> Thanks.


Enter Circular polarizer into Google. Lots of information available.

--
Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tštige Unwissenheit.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 
Reply With Quote
 
Marty Fremen
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
PGPS <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
> rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
> make it useless.


Probably precisely because of that problem, not many lenses rotate their
front element / filter mount when focussing or zooming. They used to maybe
30+ years ago but I've not had any cameras or lenses in the last 25 years
which suffered a rotating front element. Even my point and shoot digital
doesn't (not that it has a filter thread anyhow). I don't have a DSLR
though - maybe there's been some regression in lens design since DSLRs came
in?

If you do have such a lens, it's not a huge problem, since the filter
will freely rotates in its mount whilst attaced to the camera. Either take
hold of it in one hand whilst focussing/zooming to stop it rotating, or
else correct its orientation afterwards.

 
Reply With Quote
 
Joe Miller
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
> An easy way to look at this is look through the filter as the camera
> would and rotate it, you will see the normal effects, now look through
> it backwards and you should not see any effects of polarization.


It is likely you will still see an affect looking through the filter
backwards, but it depends on the details of the scene. Suppose the angle
of the polarized light from the scene lines up with the fast axis of the
quarter-wave plate. Then that plate won't do anything to the poloarized
light, but the linear polaroid behind it will diminish its intensity;
it's at a different angle. So as you rotate the filter you will see some
effect as the angle of the plate and polaroid interact with the scene
polarization. This is a minor point, but I didn't want someone to think
their filter was faulty if they tried this and saw an effect on the
light. Take two circular polarizers or one circular and one linear and
change their order or flip them and you can get some interesting,
different effects as you rotate them.

Joe
 
Reply With Quote
 
Joe Miller
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-21-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed). com>,
PGPS <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi,
> If I am using a circular polarizer on a digital SLR, I heard that a
> rotating lens element will rotate the polarizer and it will basically
> make it useless. As I understand optics, a circular polarizer
> basically changes the phase between the electrical and magnetic
> field.
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that a cirucular polarizer is basically a
> linerar polarizer + a quarter wave (QW) plate.
> 2. So, its the rotation of the linear polarizer element which causes
> the problem, since it can either polarize or not-polarize (according
> to the orientation).
>
> Any suggestions, links, etc.?
>
> Thanks.


Points (1) and (2) are correct. The light first goes through the linear
polaroid. It does all the work on the light that you wish to have
happen. The quarter-wave plate, which converts the linear to circular
polarization is there for the benefit of downstream camera elements. So,
if your lens rotates the filter, you must re-set the filter before
shooting to the angle you want. There's no way around that.

Joe
 
Reply With Quote
 
Pete
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      09-25-2007
On 21 Sep 2007 19:19:09 GMT, Marty Fremen wrote:

> Probably precisely because of that problem, not many lenses rotate their
> front element / filter mount when focussing or zooming. They used to maybe
> 30+ years ago but I've not had any cameras or lenses in the last 25 years
> which suffered a rotating front element. Even my point and shoot digital
> doesn't (not that it has a filter thread anyhow). I don't have a DSLR
> though - maybe there's been some regression in lens design since DSLRs came
> in?


There has indeed been such a regression. The Nikon D40 DLSR kit lens has a
rotating front element. PITA.

> If you do have such a lens, it's not a huge problem, since the filter
> will freely rotates in its mount whilst attaced to the camera. Either take
> hold of it in one hand whilst focussing/zooming to stop it rotating, or
> else correct its orientation afterwards.


Because of the slop in the focusing mechanism, you really need to...

1. focus
2. adjust polarizer
3. remove fingers from polarizer
4. focus again.

This is a significant problem if you need to take fast shots.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Circular polarizer question lphilpot Digital Photography 15 07-08-2007 12:25 PM
Can you go lens... then Circular Polarizer Fitler... then "Petal" type hood? Ryan Bygland Digital Photography 14 01-14-2007 08:32 PM
Best circular polarizer filter for DSLR? Curly Digital Photography 20 04-25-2004 02:28 AM
Linear vs. Circular Polarizer ? Dave Digital Photography 13 12-10-2003 04:50 PM
Circular polarizer and non-SLR digicams revisited Dave Martindale Digital Photography 4 11-24-2003 04:54 AM



Advertisments