«

The subject line tells it all, but to elaborate - I've used Nikon
digitals almost exclusively for the past 6 or 7 years and they all
have the option to have a file created and stored with the image files
on the memory card. Now that I've been trying to learn all the tricks
and features of this new Pentax K10D, I've been totally defeated in
trying to do something similar with it. The Operating Manual gives no
clue at all. In fact the term EXIF isn't even listed in the Index.
About the only place I can find the details I need is from the
Playback mode of the camera itself, which requires leaving the files
on the memory card to read the data. That goes against my method, I
normally move these files over to my computer hard drives, and can no
longer read them in the camera if I do. About the closest I can come
to reading the data is with Irfan View, but even it is not as complete
as I sometimes need. Another option is to use EXIF Image View by Mike
Kowalski, but much of the data that the Nikons all show are missing
from this camera's data listing.

Is there a solution, or did Pentax just drop the ball here? Or
decided we really didn't need that data? If so, how do they know what
we think we need, especially after Nikon has indoctrinated us over the
years?

Olin McDaniel

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."

Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:

> The subject line tells it all, but to elaborate - I've used Nikon
> digitals almost exclusively for the past 6 or 7 years and they all
> have the option to have a file created and stored with the image files
> on the memory card. Now that I've been trying to learn all the tricks
> and features of this new Pentax K10D, I've been totally defeated in
> trying to do something similar with it. The Operating Manual gives no
> clue at all. In fact the term EXIF isn't even listed in the Index.
> About the only place I can find the details I need is from the
> Playback mode of the camera itself, which requires leaving the files
> on the memory card to read the data. That goes against my method, I
> normally move these files over to my computer hard drives, and can no
> longer read them in the camera if I do. About the closest I can come
> to reading the data is with Irfan View, but even it is not as complete
> as I sometimes need. Another option is to use EXIF Image View by Mike
> Kowalski, but much of the data that the Nikons all show are missing
> from this camera's data listing.
>
> Is there a solution, or did Pentax just drop the ball here? Or
> decided we really didn't need that data? If so, how do they know what
> we think we need, especially after Nikon has indoctrinated us over the
> years?

Pentax doesn't store exif in a separate file. It's in the image file
itself, where it should be.

What piece of data, specifically, are you looking for? What are you
trying to do?

--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:45:33 -0700, 0m (Paul Mitchum)
wrote:

>Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:
>
>> The subject line tells it all, but to elaborate - I've used Nikon
>> digitals almost exclusively for the past 6 or 7 years and they all
>> have the option to have a file created and stored with the image files
>> on the memory card. Now that I've been trying to learn all the tricks
>> and features of this new Pentax K10D, I've been totally defeated in
>> trying to do something similar with it. The Operating Manual gives no
>> clue at all. In fact the term EXIF isn't even listed in the Index.
>> About the only place I can find the details I need is from the
>> Playback mode of the camera itself, which requires leaving the files
>> on the memory card to read the data. That goes against my method, I
>> normally move these files over to my computer hard drives, and can no
>> longer read them in the camera if I do. About the closest I can come
>> to reading the data is with Irfan View, but even it is not as complete
>> as I sometimes need. Another option is to use EXIF Image View by Mike
>> Kowalski, but much of the data that the Nikons all show are missing
>> from this camera's data listing.
>>
>> Is there a solution, or did Pentax just drop the ball here? Or
>> decided we really didn't need that data? If so, how do they know what
>> we think we need, especially after Nikon has indoctrinated us over the
>> years?
>
>Pentax doesn't store exif in a separate file. It's in the image file
>itself, where it should be.
>
>What piece of data, specifically, are you looking for? What are you
>trying to do?
>
>--
>http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html


Thanks for your quick response. In the original post, I did say that
Nikon gave us the option (note Option) of a text file. We had to ask
for it, but it was available if we asked. But that's NOT the point of
my question. I really don't care about that file!

As to "what am I trying to do?". Frankly, I want to see some
information that I can see via EXIF View that IS STORED on the files
themselves on the Nikons. Under EXIF View, the files for the Pentax
totally LACK seven columns of data that are available for the Nikons.
SEVEN! (7). Among these are the focus distance, plus Focus Mode, and
a couple of other less used like Quality, etc.

Now, in all fairness, after receiving your response I reexamined EXIF
View in more depth. Some of this disparity MAY exist in that program,
since the 7 columns I am accustoned to viewing are available WITHIN
that program for Nikons and Canons. Nothing is mentioned there about
setting it up for a Pentax, so MAYBE the fault lies with EXIF View.
And perhaps the date is really available, and I just don't have the
proper reader to see it?

I just see there is a later, but not Free, version called EXIF Pro,
so maybe that will work for me. PROVIDED that Pentax makes the info
available. What say? Do they?

Olin

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."

Olin K. McDaniel wrote:

>The subject line tells it all, but to elaborate - I've used Nikon
>digitals almost exclusively for the past 6 or 7 years and they all
>have the option to have a file created and stored with the image files
>on the memory card. Now that I've been trying to learn all the tricks
>and features of this new Pentax K10D, I've been totally defeated in
>trying to do something similar with it. The Operating Manual gives no
>clue at all. In fact the term EXIF isn't even listed in the Index.
>About the only place I can find the details I need is from the
>Playback mode of the camera itself, which requires leaving the files
>on the memory card to read the data. That goes against my method, I
>normally move these files over to my computer hard drives, and can no
>longer read them in the camera if I do. About the closest I can come
>to reading the data is with Irfan View, but even it is not as complete
>as I sometimes need. Another option is to use EXIF Image View by Mike
>Kowalski, but much of the data that the Nikons all show are missing
>from this camera's data listing.

I think what you want to do is extract the EXIF data from all your
image files and put it into a single text-based file (CSV format, for
example). If so, the Pentax Browser software that comes with the
camera will do that.

Here's a snippet from a CSV file it generated for me:
"7d703101.dng","smc PENTAX-DA*16-50mmF2.8ED AL[IF]
SDM","50.0mm","1/160sec","F2.8","Aperture-priority(HyP)","Multi-segment
metering","Automatic","-----","-----","-----","400","3872x2592","RAW","0.0","Continuous
AF","Select","sRGB","Natural","0","0","0","Continu ous shooting","Flash
off ","Off","-----","Off","Yes","K10D Ver 1.30","8/19/2007 11:44:24
AM","PENTAX K10D",
"7d703102.dng","smc PENTAX-DA*16-50mmF2.8ED AL[IF]
SDM","50.0mm","1/320sec","F5.6","Aperture-priority(HyP)","Multi-segment
metering","Automatic","-----","-----","-----","400","3872x2592","RAW","0.0","Single
AF","Select","sRGB","Natural","0","0","0","Continu ous shooting","Flash
off ","Off","-----","Off","Yes","K10D Ver 1.30","8/19/2007 11:57:22
AM","PENTAX K10D",

Of course, CSV files can be opened in a spreadsheet program like Excel
and easily saved in a variety of other formats.


--
Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
412-687-2835

Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:

[..]
> As to "what am I trying to do?". Frankly, I want to see some information
> that I can see via EXIF View that IS STORED on the files themselves on the
> Nikons. Under EXIF View, the files for the Pentax totally LACK seven
> columns of data that are available for the Nikons. SEVEN! (7). Among
> these are the focus distance, plus Focus Mode, and a couple of other less
> used like Quality, etc.
>
> Now, in all fairness, after receiving your response I reexamined EXIF View
> in more depth. Some of this disparity MAY exist in that program, since
> the 7 columns I am accustoned to viewing are available WITHIN that program
> for Nikons and Canons. Nothing is mentioned there about setting it up for
> a Pentax, so MAYBE the fault lies with EXIF View. And perhaps the date is
> really available, and I just don't have the proper reader to see it?
>
> I just see there is a later, but not Free, version called EXIF Pro, so
> maybe that will work for me. PROVIDED that Pentax makes the info
> available. What say? Do they?

Like I said: Pentax includes EXIF data in the image. What's going on
here is that some EXIF data is in the form of a MakerNote, which is a
private data format per manufacturer. Some data you're used to seeing
lives in MakerNotes. Some software can deal with MakerNotes, and some
can't. I'm willing to wager your software doesn't understand Pentax'
MakerNotes.

Here's what exiftool tells me about a Pentax RAW format file (a PEF
file).... Pretty much the gold standard of what metadata you're likely
to find:

blackbook:~/Pictures paul$ exiftool stump.pef
ExifTool Version Number : 6.90
File Name : stump.pef
Directory : .
File Size : 10 MB
File Modification Date/Time : 2007:03:27 15:35:54
File Type : PEF
MIME Type : image/x-raw
Image Width : 3040
Image Height : 2024
Bits Per Sample : 12
Compression : PackBits
Photometric Interpretation : Color Filter Array
Make : PENTAX Corporation
Camera Model Name : PENTAX *ist DS
Strip Offsets : 73728
Orientation : Rotate 270 CW
Samples Per Pixel : 1
Rows Per Strip : 2024
Strip Byte Counts : 9229440
X Resolution : 72
Y Resolution : 72
Planar Configuration : Chunky
Resolution Unit : inches
Software : *ist DS Ver 2.00
Modify Date : 2007:03:27 15:35:54
Exposure Time : 1/350
F Number : 4.5
Exposure Program : Program AE
ISO : 200
Date/Time Original : 2007:03:27 14:34:20
Create Date : 2007:03:27 14:34:20
Flash : Off
Focal Length : 50.0mm
Pentax Mode : Auto
Preview Image Size : 640x480
Preview Image Length : 40744
Preview Image Start : 13172
Pentax Model ID : *ist DS
Date : 2007:03:27
Time : 14:34:20
Quality : RAW
Pentax Image Size : 3008x2008 or 3040x2024
Flash Mode : Off
Focus Mode : AF-C
AF Point Selected : Auto
Exposure Compensation : 0
Metering Mode : Multi Segment
Auto Bracketing : 0
White Balance : Daylight
White Balance Mode : User-Selected
World Time Location : Hometown
Hometown City : Vancouver
Destination City : Vancouver
Hometown DST : No
Destination DST : No
Picture Mode : Program AE
Drive Mode : Single-frame
Color Space : Adobe RGB
Image Area Offset : 16 8
Raw Image Size : 3008x2008
Lens Type : smc PENTAX-FA 50mm F1.4
Camera Temperature : 16 C
Noise Reduction : Off
Image Tone : Bright
Black Point : 128 128 128 128
White Point : 13024 8192 8192 8128
AE Exposure Time : 1/372
AE Aperture : 4.8
AE ISO : 200
AE Xv : 64
AEB Xv : 0
AE Flash Tv : 164
AE Program Mode : Program
Lens Coefficients : 24 148 43 181 134 3 79 97 81
Flash Status : 0
Flash Mode Code : Off (240)
External Flash Mode : 63
Internal Flash Magni : 44
TTL DA A Up : 0
TTL DA A Down : 172
TTL DA B Up : 0
TTL DA B Down : 172
WB RGGB Levels Daylight : 13188 8192 8192 8192
WB RGGB Levels Shade : 15878 8192 8192 6251
WB RGGB Levels Cloudy : 14260 8192 8192 7354
WB RGGB Levels Tungsten : 7484 8192 8192 17038
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent D : 15454 8192 8192 8315
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent N : 12784 8192 8192 9295
WB RGGB Levels Fluorescent W : 11368 8192 8192 11297
WB RGGB Levels Flash : 13714 8192 8192 7681
Manufacture Date : 2004:11:11
Model Revision : 2.2
Internal Serial Number : 6002203
Battery Type : -126
Battery Body Grip States : 0 0
Battery AD Body No Load : 175
Battery AD Body Load : 159
Battery AD Grip No Load : 0
Battery AD Grip Load : 0
Tone Curves : (Binary data 8200 bytes, use -b option
to extract)
Sensing Method : One-chip color area
File Source : Digital Camera
Scene Type : Directly photographed
CFA Pattern : [Red,Green][Green,Blue]
Custom Rendered : Normal
Exposure Mode : Auto
Focal Length In 35mm Format : 75mm
Scene Capture Type : Standard
Contrast : Low
Saturation : Low
Sharpness : Soft
Subject Distance Range : Distant
Thumbnail Offset : 65630
Thumbnail Length : 6351
Jpg From Raw Start : 9303262
Jpg From Raw Length : 1454988
Aperture : 4.5
Image Size : 3040x2024
Jpg From Raw : (Binary data 1454988 bytes, use -b
option to extract)
Preview Image : (Binary data 40744 bytes, use -b
option to extract)
Scale Factor To 35mm Equivalent : 1.5
Shutter Speed : 1/350
Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 6351 bytes, use -b option
to extract)
Circle Of Confusion : 0.020 mm
Focal Length : 50.0mm (35mm equivalent: 75.0mm)
Hyperfocal Distance : 27.74 m
Light Value : 11.8


--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:05:47 -0700, 0m (Paul Mitchum)
wrote:

>Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:
>
>[..]
>> As to "what am I trying to do?". Frankly, I want to see some information
>> that I can see via EXIF View that IS STORED on the files themselves on the
>> Nikons. Under EXIF View, the files for the Pentax totally LACK seven
>> columns of data that are available for the Nikons. SEVEN! (7). Among
>> these are the focus distance, plus Focus Mode, and a couple of other less
>> used like Quality, etc.
>>
>> Now, in all fairness, after receiving your response I reexamined EXIF View
>> in more depth. Some of this disparity MAY exist in that program, since
>> the 7 columns I am accustoned to viewing are available WITHIN that program
>> for Nikons and Canons. Nothing is mentioned there about setting it up for
>> a Pentax, so MAYBE the fault lies with EXIF View. And perhaps the date is
>> really available, and I just don't have the proper reader to see it?
>>
>> I just see there is a later, but not Free, version called EXIF Pro, so
>> maybe that will work for me. PROVIDED that Pentax makes the info
>> available. What say? Do they?
Are you familiar with the above package?

>
>Like I said: Pentax includes EXIF data in the image. What's going on
>here is that some EXIF data is in the form of a MakerNote, which is a
>private data format per manufacturer. Some data you're used to seeing
>lives in MakerNotes. Some software can deal with MakerNotes, and some
>can't. I'm willing to wager your software doesn't understand Pentax'
>MakerNotes.

Thanks, looks like it's all there, if I had a "viewer" that I could
select the specific items I would like displayed (not necessarily
printed, though) in a page format of multiple images, each on a line
for itself. My need stems from trying to learn quickly and easily
what exact conditions I used for each shot taken in a particular
session. It's just my way of evaluating what shooting setups work
best for a given set of circumstances. The thing I like about EXIF
View is - I can flip back and forth between the page with the summary
of the conditions to a page with the thumbnails, and can click on any
thumbnail to view it. From what you say, there is plenty of data
there, and evidently it can be viewed if the viewer can accommodate
it. So, it's not like Pentax withholds it from the user, is it?

>Here's what exiftool tells me about a Pentax RAW format file (a PEF
>file).... Pretty much the gold standard of what metadata you're likely
>to find:
>
>blackbook:~/Pictures paul$ exiftool stump.pef
>ExifTool Version Number : 6.90

Is Exif Tool available for downloading? Or have I failed to find it
in the stuff that came with the camera? That wouldn't surprise me,
I'm still learning this camera's features as well. And can it extract
at least some of the info from shooting only .JPG files, which is what
I use most of the time?

>File Name : stump.pef
>Directory : .
>File Size : 10 MB
>File Modification Date/Time : 2007:03:27 15:35:54
>File Type : PEF

(some snipped)

>F Number : 4.5
>Exposure Program : Program AE
>ISO : 200
>Date/Time Original : 2007:03:27 14:34:20
>Create Date : 2007:03:27 14:34:20
>Flash : Off
>Focal Length : 50.0mm

(more snipped)

>Quality : RAW
>Pentax Image Size : 3008x2008 or 3040x2024
>Flash Mode : Off
>Focus Mode : AF-C
>AF Point Selected : Auto
>Exposure Compensation : 0
>Metering Mode : Multi Segment
>Auto Bracketing : 0
>White Balance : Daylight
>White Balance Mode : User-Selected

(more snipped)

>Picture Mode : Program AE
>Drive Mode : Single-frame
>Color Space : Adobe RGB
>Image Area Offset : 16 8
>Raw Image Size : 3008x2008
>Lens Type : smc PENTAX-FA 50mm F1.4
>Camera Temperature : 16 C
>Noise Reduction : Off

(yet more snipped)

>Exposure Mode : Auto
>Focal Length In 35mm Format : 75mm
>Scene Capture Type : Standard
>Contrast : Low
>Saturation : Low
>Sharpness : Soft
>Subject Distance Range : Distant
(how many choices are available here?)

>Shutter Speed : 1/350
>Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 6351 bytes, use -b option
>to extract)
>Circle Of Confusion : 0.020 mm
>Focal Length : 50.0mm (35mm equivalent: 75.0mm)
>Hyperfocal Distance : 27.74 m
>Light Value : 11.8
>
>
>--
>http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html


That response was very informative and helpful, thanks.

Olin

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:46:03 GMT, Mark Roberts <>
wrote:

>Olin K. McDaniel wrote:
>
>>The subject line tells it all, but to elaborate - I've used Nikon
>>digitals almost exclusively for the past 6 or 7 years and they all
>>have the option to have a file created and stored with the image files
>>on the memory card. Now that I've been trying to learn all the tricks
>>and features of this new Pentax K10D, I've been totally defeated in
>>trying to do something similar with it. The Operating Manual gives no
>>clue at all. In fact the term EXIF isn't even listed in the Index.
>>About the only place I can find the details I need is from the
>>Playback mode of the camera itself, which requires leaving the files
>>on the memory card to read the data. That goes against my method, I
>>normally move these files over to my computer hard drives, and can no
>>longer read them in the camera if I do. About the closest I can come
>>to reading the data is with Irfan View, but even it is not as complete
>>as I sometimes need. Another option is to use EXIF Image View by Mike
>>Kowalski, but much of the data that the Nikons all show are missing
>>from this camera's data listing.
>
>I think what you want to do is extract the EXIF data from all your
>image files and put it into a single text-based file (CSV format, for
>example). If so, the Pentax Browser software that comes with the
>camera will do that.
>
Thanks Mark. You and Paul, to whom I just replied, have given me
enough info that maybe I can get what I need. In all honesty, I've
not tried the software that came with the camera, so guess I'm to
blame there.

>Here's a snippet from a CSV file it generated for me:
>"7d703101.dng","smc PENTAX-DA*16-50mmF2.8ED AL[IF]

(some snipped here)

I note above you got all this from the RAW file. As I asked Paul in
the other reply, can I get it from the data available if I only shoot
in .JPG?
>
>Of course, CSV files can be opened in a spreadsheet program like Excel
>and easily saved in a variety of other formats.
>
>
>--
>Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
>www.robertstech.com
>412-687-2835
>
>
>
>

To reply by email, please remove "abcd" from Return address
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes
the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."

Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:05:47 -0700, 0m (Paul Mitchum)
> wrote:
> >Olin K. McDaniel <> wrote:
[..]
> >> I just see there is a later, but not Free, version called EXIF Pro, so
> >> maybe that will work for me. PROVIDED that Pentax makes the info
> >> available. What say? Do they?
>
> Are you familiar with the above package?

Nope.

[..]
> >ExifTool Version Number : 6.90
>
> Is Exif Tool available for downloading? Or have I failed to find it
> in the stuff that came with the camera? That wouldn't surprise me,
> I'm still learning this camera's features as well. And can it extract
> at least some of the info from shooting only .JPG files, which is what
> I use most of the time?

ExifTool is completely free, and can work just fine with JPEG files.
<http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/>

--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html

Olin K. McDaniel wrote:

>Thanks Mark. You and Paul, to whom I just replied, have given me
>enough info that maybe I can get what I need. In all honesty, I've
>not tried the software that came with the camera, so guess I'm to
>blame there.
>
>>Here's a snippet from a CSV file it generated for me:
>>"7d703101.dng","smc PENTAX-DA*16-50mmF2.8ED AL[IF]
>
>(some snipped here)
>
> I note above you got all this from the RAW file. As I asked Paul in
>the other reply, can I get it from the data available if I only shoot
>in .JPG?

Yes, it works the same way with JPEGs. Of course, with JPEG files
you'll only get standard EXIF data (date, shutter speed, aperture,
focal length, ISO, Camera make/model, etc.) not any of the
non-standard things like lens model.


--
Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
412-687-2835

Mark Roberts <> wrote:

> Olin K. McDaniel wrote:
>
> >Thanks Mark. You and Paul, to whom I just replied, have given me
> >enough info that maybe I can get what I need. In all honesty, I've
> >not tried the software that came with the camera, so guess I'm to
> >blame there.
> >
> >>Here's a snippet from a CSV file it generated for me:
> >>"7d703101.dng","smc PENTAX-DA*16-50mmF2.8ED AL[IF]
> >
> >(some snipped here)
> >
> > I note above you got all this from the RAW file. As I asked Paul in the
> >other reply, can I get it from the data available if I only shoot in
> >.JPG?
>
> Yes, it works the same way with JPEGs. Of course, with JPEG files you'll
> only get standard EXIF data (date, shutter speed, aperture, focal length,
> ISO, Camera make/model, etc.) not any of the non-standard things like lens
> model.

That's not true. In Pentax' case, and pretty much all the others' as
well, you get all that information in EXIF and MakerNotes. It's just
that not all software can read it to show it to you. Also, shooting RAW,
importing into a converter, and saving as JPEG presents a lot of steps
where such information could be lost by the software doing the work. For
instance, Photoshop CS and ACR drop the lens model.

Here's a JPEG straight out of the camera, with lens model included:

blackbook:~/Pictures paul$ exiftool _IGP0263.JPG
ExifTool Version Number : 6.90
File Name : _IGP0263.JPG
Directory : .
File Size : 1274 kB
File Modification Date/Time : 2007:09:13 10:39:24
File Type : JPEG
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Make : PENTAX Corporation
Camera Model Name : PENTAX *ist DS
Orientation : Horizontal (normal)
X Resolution : 72
Y Resolution : 72
Resolution Unit : inches
Software : *ist DS Ver 2.02

[..]

Lens Type : smc PENTAX-DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL

[ etc... ]

--
http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2..._argument.html