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Can Live View Be Used To Count Sunspots?

 
 
georgea
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      09-11-2007
Hi Rich

There is no doubt that full frame is the way to shoot the moon or the sun.
That can also be accomplished with a shorter FL scope and EP projection.
But for counting sunspots and seeing some detail without dropping a bundle,
then a 400mm with a Baader Astro Solar filter is an inexpensive (if you
already have the 400mm) intro to solar shooting. Then buy a PST and get
hooked on solar H-Alpha and discover there is insufficient backfocus and you
now need a larger solar scope and the slippery downhill slide into aperture
fever begins....

George

"RichA" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
On Sep 10, 10:56 pm, George Anderson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Rita ─ Berkowitz wrote:
> > RichA wrote:

>
> >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
> >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

>
> >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
> >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

>
> > I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's
> > all. So
> > far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from
> > my Mk
> > III and get a $25 rebate?

>
> > Rita

>
> If the live view on the MkIII is the same thing (or similar) as the 20DA
> came with then slap on a piece of Baader film in front of the 400mm lens
> and you will be able to see a fair bit of detail in the sunspots as well
> as be able to count them.
> The sun is 0.5 of a degree in diameter so from your FOV of the 400 you
> should get an idea of the pixel resolution for the solar image.
>
> George- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


You need 2000mm of focal length with a 35mm equivalent sensor size to
fill the field of view top of frame to bottom with the Sun. For a 1.5
crop, 1500mm.
Going below this is why camera lens pictures of the Moon, Sun are SO
inferior to longer focal length telescope images. If you can avoid
cropping
a sub-frame sized image, do so.


 
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DSLR Honesty
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      09-11-2007
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:33:43 +1000, "Doug Jewell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Really, EVF previews the long shutter speed? are you sure?


Yes, I'm sure.

> So when you have
>a 1sec exposure, previewing that would require a framerate of 1 per sec -
>that'll be useful I'm sure. Which camera's EVF previews shutter speed? Most
>will preview overall exposure, but shutter blur preview, along with live DOF
>preview isn't usually a feature. Can you give a specific model that will
>preview the amount of shutter blur as you dial it in?


LOL! You want me to do your homework for you? I suggest you start testing them
the next time you are in some store. You'll be surprised just how many of them
have this feature.

Oh, and you don't have to press any special button on a more expensive lens that
has that feature to see any DOF preview, it's in the EVF/LCD view at all times,
and it doesn't show you a barely visible darkened image of that DOF preview
either. (I swear you DSLR people really DO have your heads up your asses!)

>Oops, while you were waiting for your 1 frame/sec EVF to focus, the bird
>flew off anyway.. or this 1 frame/sec EVF you are talking about, which is
>running 1 second behind live, doesn't show you that the bird flew away
>before you press the button.


I see, you're just one of many hundreds of thousands arm-chair internet
photographers. You really have never taken any actual photos with this scenario,
I can tell from this comment of yours. You've outted yourself as a know-nothing
internet idiot. Your scenario will not exist in real-world situations.

And even on a DSLR with Live Preview, you better make that first shot count,
because you won't get a second chance. The very first photo will scare the bird
away, with all the clatter that your ancient SLR design will cause. With a
silent P&S camera I can sit there all day composing a variety of shots, the bird
nonplussed.

>Well no, you don't see the effect of the blur, but assuming you did, doing
>so would require a delay and so composing on the EVF would be a waste of
>time, because the subject would really be gone at the point you press the
>button. And just how do you autofocus quickly on a moving subject with an
>EVF camera?


Oh, I see, the stream or waterfall is going to shift course so you'll have to
run fast to track down where it went to (again, this reveals you're nothing but
a useless internet arm-chair photographer). If you need a full 1 second delay to
create a soft-water effect, then you are obviously taking your photography
lessons from the most inept photographers on the internet. But then that won't
matter to you, since that's the only kind of photography you ever do, the
imaginary internet kind. The typical internet arm-chair photographer. That's all
you are and will ever be.

Didn't you hear about the interesting reverse-microprism effect that is possible
using an EVF? No? Pity. Try to find some info somewhere about using it that
way. Manually focusing using an EVF can be even more accurate and faster than on
a DSLR. *IF* you know how.

>If the subject is such that you have enough time to preview the effects on
>an EVF, you also have enough time to just take multiple photos.
>OR... better yet, use your experience to know good starting exposures, and
>take it from there. Heck, that's how we used to take photos back when we
>used that four letter F word. The instant feedback of digital is an extra
>bonus. Yes previewing the exposure of your photo is handy, but not really
>essential.


Let us see you dial-in the exact amount of motion blur that you'd like to have
in the wings of a hovering hummingbird by using your DSLR. I do precisely that
whenever they are around in summer months.

Keep trying to justify your ancient DSLR crap, it still doesn't hold water in
light of the advanced features of most P&S cameras. If they weren't such great
features, do you think they'd be appearing on only the top of the line $8000
DSLRs this year? We've been enjoying that capability for YEARS now. But you're
stuck with your head up your ass with your ancient DSLR pride and remain
clueless.

YOUR DSLR IS CRAP DESIGN, CRAP TECHNOLOGY. Just deal with it and move on. I did
and never looked back.

One more thing ... while you are trying to stop the wings of that hummingbird
and trying to get just the right amount of motion blur, try to not pay any
attention to the unnatural curvature and distortion of the wing-shapes that that
SLOW mechanical focal-plane shutter is going to create in your image. That's
just one of the many "quaint features" that ALL focal-plane-shutter
photographers have come to love and admire about their crap cameras built around
last-century technology. Ask any one of them, they just **LOVE** their
focal-plane-shutter image distortions. They reply the same every time I ask them
about it. (Talk about self-deluded. DSLR owner's win that contest, hands down!
Your reply is living proof of that.)

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Saguenay
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2007

"georgea" <(E-Mail Removed)> a Úcrit dans le message de news:
fc6a0h$nkg$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Rich
>
> There is no doubt that full frame is the way to shoot the moon or the sun.
> That can also be accomplished with a shorter FL scope and EP projection.
> But for counting sunspots and seeing some detail without dropping a
> bundle,
> then a 400mm with a Baader Astro Solar filter is an inexpensive (if you
> already have the 400mm) intro to solar shooting. Then buy a PST and get
> hooked on solar H-Alpha and discover there is insufficient backfocus and
> you
> now need a larger solar scope and the slippery downhill slide into
> aperture
> fever begins....
>
> George
>


Or wait for a better sunset than this one:
http://baron.phpnet.us/sigma/img_040...?size=1&exif=Y



 
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DSLR Honesty
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2007
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:43:32 GMT, DSLR Honesty <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>


Benefits of "Live Preview"?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1221/...969f5c09_o.jpg

Oh look, a hummingbird taken in available light with a P&S camera, with just the
right amount of motion blur that I wanted. I could see how much motion-blur as I
was framing the bird in the EVF and changing the shutter speeds to get just the
right effect, before I even pressed the shutter. Not too much motion blur so
that you can't see the individual wing-feathers, but not so crisp that this
photo would look just like every other disgustingly unnatural looking flash
exposure that is used to stop wing motion completely.

Notice too, how nice and straight those fore-feathers are. None of that
LSD-tripping distortion and curvature caused by a focal-plane shutter running at
last-century speeds whenever they are used to photograph any subject in fast
motion. This photo captures the wings accurately, depicting reality, recording
nature as it really is. No DSLR on earth can do that by just using available
light. Not even the new $8000 ones.

Oh dear. I just noticed something. Look at that nasty bokeh. The background all
blurred out from having such a shallow DOF. I guess I need to get an even
smaller sensor in my next P&S camera. My P&S cameras having just as shallow DOF
as any DSLR will never do. If I keep taking photos like that it'll keep proving,
without question, that every DSLR owner on earth is _COMPLETELY _FULL_OF_****_.
We can't have that, now can we.

I swear, you DSLR fools are just so easy to prove 100% wrong at every turn. Like
shooting fish in a barrel. No wonder that the phrase "a fool and his money are
soon parted" became so well-worn, it's 100% true. Every DSLR buyer makes it even
more true with every purchase. Not only do they lose money, but they prove to
the world that they were already a fool from the beginning. Why else would they
buy one?

I couldn't stop laughing when I read a posting from DSLR owner one time,
claiming that only a DSLR is the right kind of camera for professional nature
photography. I must have laughed a good 20 minutes on that one. At least they
are entertaining if nothing else! Wait, correction, there is no "if" about it.

 
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Annika1980
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2007
On Sep 11, 2:43 pm, DSLR Honesty <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1221/...969f5c09_o.jpg
>
> Oh look, a hummingbird taken in available light with a P&S camera,


I call Bullshit. Looks like there were at least two flashes
"available."


 
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Krypto
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2007
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:43:58 GMT, DSLR Honesty
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:43:32 GMT, DSLR Honesty <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>

>
>Benefits of "Live Preview"?
>
>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1221/...969f5c09_o.jpg
>
>Oh look, a hummingbird taken in available light with a P&S camera, with just the
>right amount of motion blur that I wanted. I could see how much motion-blur as I
>was framing the bird in the EVF and changing the shutter speeds to get just the
>right effect, before I even pressed the shutter. Not too much motion blur so
>that you can't see the individual wing-feathers, but not so crisp that this
>photo would look just like every other disgustingly unnatural looking flash
>exposure that is used to stop wing motion completely.
>
>Notice too, how nice and straight those fore-feathers are. None of that
>LSD-tripping distortion and curvature caused by a focal-plane shutter running at
>last-century speeds whenever they are used to photograph any subject in fast
>motion. This photo captures the wings accurately, depicting reality, recording
>nature as it really is. No DSLR on earth can do that by just using available
>light. Not even the new $8000 ones.
>
>Oh dear. I just noticed something. Look at that nasty bokeh. The background all
>blurred out from having such a shallow DOF. I guess I need to get an even
>smaller sensor in my next P&S camera. My P&S cameras having just as shallow DOF
>as any DSLR will never do. If I keep taking photos like that it'll keep proving,
>without question, that every DSLR owner on earth is _COMPLETELY _FULL_OF_****_.
>We can't have that, now can we.
>
>I swear, you DSLR fools are just so easy to prove 100% wrong at every turn. Like
>shooting fish in a barrel. No wonder that the phrase "a fool and his money are
>soon parted" became so well-worn, it's 100% true. Every DSLR buyer makes it even
>more true with every purchase. Not only do they lose money, but they prove to
>the world that they were already a fool from the beginning. Why else would they
>buy one?
>
>I couldn't stop laughing when I read a posting from DSLR owner one time,
>claiming that only a DSLR is the right kind of camera for professional nature
>photography. I must have laughed a good 20 minutes on that one. At least they
>are entertaining if nothing else! Wait, correction, there is no "if" about it.

 
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Randall Ainsworth
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Posts: n/a
 
      09-11-2007
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, DSLR Honesty
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:43:32 GMT, DSLR Honesty <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >

>
> Benefits of "Live Preview"?


Makes a nice crutch for people who don't know what they're doing?
 
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=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=
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      09-11-2007
frederick wrote:

> Of course with the weird oddball sensor size IdIII,
> ultra-wide isn't possible, so YMMV.


If I can't get the shot with the world famous 17-35/2.8 Nikkor on the Mk
III's 1.3x crippled sensor than the shot isn't worth taking.






Rita

 
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Rich
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      09-11-2007
On Sep 11, 4:51 pm, Randall Ainsworth <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, DSLR Honesty
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:43:32 GMT, DSLR Honesty <(E-Mail Removed)>
> > wrote:

>
> > Benefits of "Live Preview"?

>
> Makes a nice crutch for people who don't know what they're doing?


Like in-camera metering, AF, camera control of flashes, all that
newfangled stuff.
People can't keep repeating this same mantra every time some new
function is added to a DSLR.

 
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frederick
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      09-11-2007
Rita ─ Berkowitz wrote:
> frederick wrote:
>
>> Of course with the weird oddball sensor size IdIII,
>> ultra-wide isn't possible, so YMMV.

>
> If I can't get the shot with the world famous 17-35/2.8 Nikkor on the Mk
> III's 1.3x crippled sensor than the shot isn't worth taking.
>
>

"Crippled" isn't acceptable to describe the sensor, and my
apologies because oddball and weird sensors can be part of
the normal sensor community - that was unfair of me.
It's a geometrically challenged sensor. It's inability to
fully integrate with any established system should be
celebrated for the value such diversity brings to the
photographic community.
Yes, you're right, the shot's worthless - in the same way
that an Olympic Gold for 100m is worthless if the runner had
two legs.
 
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