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Hi all,

I'm currently trying to evaluate all the possible frameworks that are
out on the web for my next project, namely a Web Application that acts
as a simulation of a financial system. This means that I have to have
a good persistence framework, an easy way to implement business logic
and an easy way to translate the data into HTML-Pages.
As for the persistence framework it would be nice to have something
flexible enough so that I can add an external workhorse that takes
care of the simulation itself.

So far I have the following list of things to consider:
- Persistence
- Hibernate
- OJB
-Display/Logic
- Spring
- Tapestry
- EJB
What do you think about them?

Regards,
Christian decker
--
http://www.snyke.net

I think that's quite enough, try servlets as well

wrote:
> I think that's quite enough, try servlets as well

I favor knowing how to tune a car before talking to the mechanic.

I'd start with JSP and servlets with Java Server Faces (JSF) and the Java
Persistence API. (I am just starting to learn the Persistence API. I
actually started with JSP, servlets, coding my own MVC framework and writing
my own data access framework.) That really makes one appreciate frameworks
like JSF, Struts, Persistence API, Hibernate or whatever, because now one
groks from first-hand experience what they're accomplishing.

Or failing to accomplish.

I've worked with people who knew the Struts API cold but didn't understand the
Model-View-Controller concept. It led to some peculiar choices.

I have doubts about many of these frameworks. I haven't used Hibernate, but I
worked on a project that used Torque, another "object-relational" framework.
Yecch. It's easier to just code PreparedStatements with JDBC. I found the
overhead of Torque egregious, and it restricted me from much of the power of
the database.

--
Lew

On Aug 16, 2:10 pm, Lew <l...@lewscanon.com> wrote:
> dimov.vla...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think that's quite enough, try servlets as well
>
> I favor knowing how to tune a car before talking to the mechanic.
>
> I'd start with JSP and servlets with Java Server Faces (JSF) and the Java
> Persistence API. (I am just starting to learn the Persistence API. I
> actually started with JSP, servlets, coding my own MVC framework and writing
> my own data access framework.) That really makes one appreciate frameworks
> like JSF, Struts, Persistence API, Hibernate or whatever, because now one
> groks from first-hand experience what they're accomplishing.
>
> Or failing to accomplish.
>
> I've worked with people who knew the Struts API cold but didn't understand the
> Model-View-Controller concept. It led to some peculiar choices.
>
> I have doubts about many of these frameworks. I haven't used Hibernate, but I
> worked on a project that used Torque, another "object-relational" framework.
> Yecch. It's easier to just code PreparedStatements with JDBC. I found the
> overhead of Torque egregious, and it restricted me from much of the power of
> the database.
>
> --
> Lew

Way back I already used Hibernate for the persistence of the data onto
a relational db, and I found it quite good, as I spent a lot of time
manually mapping my php-objects to a database before. The problem is
that I want this application to be build on top of solid foundations
as it might grow over time, and I'm currently very interested in the
spring framework. I also used some MVC-Frameworks on client
applications and I feel pretty comfortable with it. As for the
tradeoff of ease to program and speed using Hibernate, yeah that might
be a problem later in the productive environment but as I understand
it, it shouldn't be too hard to exchange the persistence layer when
using Spring.
Anything I'm missing?

Regards,
Christian
--
http://www.snyke.net

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:45:49 -0000, Snyke <>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

> - Tapestry

Check out that is still active. I have not heard much about it in
recent years.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:45:49 -0000, Snyke <>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> - Tapestry
>
> Check out that is still active. I have not heard much about it in
> recent years.

http://archive.apache.org/dist/tapestry/ indicates
that they are still sending out new releases rather
frequently.

Arne

Snyke wrote:
> Way back I already used Hibernate for the persistence of the data onto
> a relational db, and I found it quite good, as I spent a lot of time
> manually mapping my php-objects to a database before. The problem is
> that I want this application to be build on top of solid foundations
> as it might grow over time, and I'm currently very interested in the
> spring framework. I also used some MVC-Frameworks on client
> applications and I feel pretty comfortable with it. As for the
> tradeoff of ease to program and speed using Hibernate, yeah that might
> be a problem later in the productive environment but as I understand
> it, it shouldn't be too hard to exchange the persistence layer when
> using Spring.

I think that Spring *and* Hibernate is a very common combination.

It is probably more common than any other Spring and database access
combination - including JdbcTemplate.

Arne

Snyke wrote:
> I'm currently trying to evaluate all the possible frameworks that are
> out on the web for my next project, namely a Web Application that acts
> as a simulation of a financial system. This means that I have to have
> a good persistence framework, an easy way to implement business logic
> and an easy way to translate the data into HTML-Pages.
> As for the persistence framework it would be nice to have something
> flexible enough so that I can add an external workhorse that takes
> care of the simulation itself.
>
> So far I have the following list of things to consider:
> - Persistence
> - Hibernate
> - OJB
> -Display/Logic
> - Spring
> - Tapestry
> - EJB
> What do you think about them?

Display: JSF
Logic: Spring and/or EJB
Persistence: Hibernate or EJB3

Arne