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It was on, or about, Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:45:53 -0500, that as I was
halfway through a large jam doughnut, Mara wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:26:01 +0100, William Poaster <>
> wrote:
>
>>It was on, or about, Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:49:53 -0500, that as I was
>>halfway through a large jam doughnut, Mara wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> That's true, but you have to set it up that way deliberately. The
>>> default installation in SuSE at least isn't in root.
>>
>> The default installation in the majority of linux distros is not root.
>>There is normally no need to run as root, as all the applications can be
>>run as a user. So when you log in, you're a user with no admin
>>privileges. If the user screws anything up, it's only *their* files
>>which are affected. The rest of the OS & other users, are unaffected.
>
> Yes. I don't log into root unless I just *have* to. It's scarey in
> there. <g>
>
>> This is unlike windoze, where the user has to be an admin because a
>> lot
>>of the applications won't run *without* admin privileges.
>
> You'd think software authors would know better, but even
> mission-critical software is sometimes written that way, which really,
> really sucks.
>
>>>> Not so much from viruses,
>>>> although that's possible, but from bungling up his/her own machine.
>>>
>>> Yes. If you play with stuff in root and don't know what you're doing
>>> you can screw it up rather easily.
>>
>> Yes, & GNU/Linux *expects* you to know what you're doing. You are at
>>least expected to learn something about the OS before you start mucking
>>about as an admin. Unlike windoze, it won't ask you half-a-dozen times
>>if you're sure you want to do something, it *will* do it.
>
> True, as I've found out the hard way, in the process of learning it. <g>
>
>> As for viruses, they would only be possible with a *great* deal of
>>trouble, & there again may only work with certain distributions or
>>applications. If you're not using that distro, or don't have the
>>application installed anyway.... Another thing too, as virus would need
>>the root password to propagate/do damage/alter a system file, it would
>>have a hard time finding it.
>>
>> As the majority of the internet runs on linux servers, don't these
>>bozos think they would have been *successfully* attacked by now? By
>>"successful", I mean like the damage cause to windows like SoBig,
>>CodeRed or Nimbda. These won't even *run* under WINE in linux! The worst
>>attack was from "Mighty" a Slapper variant, which only managed to affect
>>20,000 linux servers in week & died out. Compare that to Code Red &
>>350,000 windoze servers.
>
> Code Red is still around, as amazing as that seems.

I'm not all that surprised, really.

>>The only thing I run on a regular basis is rkhunter, which scans the
>>systems for known and unknown rootkits, backdoors, sniffers and
>>exploits. But in 10 years of using GNU/Linux I've never had a problem.
>
> I've never had a problem with SuSE except for those I caused myself,

Ah, yes, the "Self inflicted wounds". I've had quite a few of those in
the past, when I was learning about Linux. I used to compile my own
kernels too, just out of curiosity really, as there is normally no need
to do that.

> and the hardware thing. But I don't and won't run a MS-Novell version.
> To me that just spells disaster-in-the-making.

No, I didn't want anything from MicroVell on my machines, so I changed to
other distros. Quite easy to do, when you already have your /home
directory on a separate partition or drive. At least you get to keep all
your documents etc, when you change the distro.

>>> But Windows Vista takes things too far the other way - you can't get
>>> where you need to half the time, and you spend more time clicking
>>> through popups than anything else.
>>>
>>> I'd switch all my machines to Linux, if I could.
>>>
>>>>There are advantages and disadvantages no matter which way you go.
>>>
>>> The only disadvantage to Linux I see is that it doesn't support all my
>>> hardware. And then there's the fact that with it you have to pay
>>> attention and learn things, which a lot of people just don't want to
>>> be bothered to do. It's easier for them to screw up their Windows
>>> machines and bring them to me to fix over and over and over than to
>>> learn, even when I try to teach them.
>>>
>>> But hey, it's their money. If they want to give it to me I expect I'll
>>> survive the strain.
>>
>>
>
> Well, look at it this way - since I've had the machine here several
> times I already know what to expect and what to fix. If they want to pay
> me $50-$75 for fifteen minutes of work, that's ok by me. It feeds the
> felines.

Excellent!