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EOS 400d opinions sought.

 
 
JohnR66
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      07-13-2007
"AWroe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
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> Hi All,
>
> I'm new to this forum and just about to purchase my first DSLR camera
> (upgrading from a Fuji s5000). I'm pretty much set on the Canon EOS
> 400d but I've heard that that 18-55mm lens which comes with it is a
> bit of a dog.
>
> My thoughts are to buy the camera body only and then get a couple of
> 3rd larty lenses, one at 18-55mm or similar and one at 70-300mm or
> similar. The obvious choices are available in the Sigma and Tamron
> ranges.
>
> Your ideas / experiences / opinions would be hugely appreciated.
>
> Allan.
>

I have the Xti/400D kit. It is a great 10mp entrylevel camera. Canon did
good by adding the picture styles and custom functions to it.
Keep in mind that the "kit" is usually less than $100 (US) more, and
typically only $70 more than the Camera alone. You get a zoom lens for only
$70.

The kit lens is certainly not pro quality, but is really is not that bad. It
shows corner softness at wider zooms settings that can be reduced by
stopping down.
Here is my own test of the 18-55II kit lens:
http://home.att.net/~jriegle/18-55II.jpg
Unpostprocessed images. Camera's sharpness set 1 notch down from defualt.
John


 
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jdear64
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      07-13-2007
On Jul 13, 3:58 am, AWroe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
> > Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
> > D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).

>
> The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd
> party lenses easily because the AF motor is in the body of
> the camera whereas it's in the lens with the Nikon. The end
> result being that 3rd party lenses won't autofocus on the
> D40x.
>
> As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a
> DSLR so expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence
> the potentially dumb questions.


No Canon EOS SLR has focus motors in the body. Therefore all auto
focus lenses have focus motors. The Canon 400D can use any EF or EF-S
lens.

If the sales guy really told you the above, I would shop elsewhere
( or at least talk to a different sales person ).

 
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tootal2@sbcglobal.net
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-13-2007
jdear64 wrote:
> On Jul 13, 3:58 am, AWroe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
>>> Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
>>> D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).

>> The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd
>> party lenses easily because the AF motor is in the body of
>> the camera whereas it's in the lens with the Nikon. The end
>> result being that 3rd party lenses won't autofocus on the
>> D40x.
>>
>> As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a
>> DSLR so expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence
>> the potentially dumb questions.

>
> No Canon EOS SLR has focus motors in the body. Therefore all auto
> focus lenses have focus motors. The Canon 400D can use any EF or EF-S
> lens.
>
> If the sales guy really told you the above, I would shop elsewhere
> ( or at least talk to a different sales person ).
>

The pentax K10D has in body and in lens focus motor. But you need to use
a DA* lens with sdm. Da* lens dont come out for 2 more months. It nice
how all pentax lens will work on a k10d even sdm lens.

the sdm lens cost alot are they worth the price?
 
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Pete D
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      07-13-2007

"Marutchi" <BarbaraH*REMOVE THIS*@ozdebate.com> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
> Pete D wrote:
>
>>
>> Well documented that Sigma lenses in particular have issues on Canon
>> bodies, do a search on Sigma lens and error99. Canon lenses just work
>> as they are supposed to on Canon bodies.

>
> Well Sigma aren't the only other 3rd party lens available. I have one
> Tamron, and it works well on my Canon.


>
>> Thats why I said it and did not use someone elses words, you have
>> little Canons, used them, tried them, perhaps you should answer the
>> OP and give your opinion to him, this one is mine? You like them?
>> Great, then you are happy, I am happy for you too.

>
> I don't own, nor have I ever owned a 400D, so cannot make any comments on
> them.



Never tried them in the shop, never borrowed one from a friend? I have and
never felt comfy with the 300D, 350D (really hated these) or the 400D, they
just feel aweful to me, the 20D, 30D and 5D feel much better to me
..
>
>> The results I have seen from 30D and 5D that a friend is using for
>> portrait work (or was til they were stolen a few weeks ago) are
>> excellent, another friend showed me shots printed at 12x18 done on a
>> 400D and either he or the camera was doing something very wrong yet
>> he thought they were great, just shows you that the same thing can
>> look diiferent to different folks.

>
> Of course, that's what makes the world go round.


Actually the one that had the 30D and the 5D bought a 350D when they came
out and ended up taking it back he hated the ergonomics so much, he swapped
it for a 30D. He is now using an EOS3 I think and waiting for the 5D
replacement.


 
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Pete D
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      07-13-2007

"David J. Littleboy" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:f77t2s$r4k$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Marutchi" <BarbaraH*REMOVE THIS*@ozdebate.com> wrote:
>> Pete D wrote:
>>> Well documented that Sigma lenses in particular have issues on Canon
>>> bodies, do a search on Sigma lens and error99. Canon lenses just work
>>> as they are supposed to on Canon bodies.

>>
>> Well Sigma aren't the only other 3rd party lens available. I have one
>> Tamron, and it works well on my Canon.

>
> As I understand it, the Sigma problem is seriously ancient history.
> Certain older lenses have problems; some of them can be "rechipped",
> others can't. It's only an issue if one is purchasing older lenses.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>


Good to hear, still a PITA though for those that cannot be repaired and
something to be aware of.


I know what it is like to go through, I have a DG 500 Super flash that is
excellent with one camera but bought another camera and had to get the flash
rechipped and firmware updated to work properly with the new camera, still
have to send it back for another firmware update to get wireless working
from onboard flash, it fires wirelessly from another external flash so i am
not so worried but would be nice to have two off camera flashes working
sometimes.

Cheers.

Pete


 
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Pete D
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      07-13-2007

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:uHNli.484$(E-Mail Removed). ..
> jdear64 wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 3:58 am, AWroe <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> I don't know what you mean by "set on the manufacturer's lenses" for
>>>> Nikon - many third-party lenses are available for both brands (Nikon
>>>> D40/D40X does need AF motorised lenses, though).
>>> The sales guy I spoke to said that the Canon can use 3rd
>>> party lenses easily because the AF motor is in the body of
>>> the camera whereas it's in the lens with the Nikon. The end
>>> result being that 3rd party lenses won't autofocus on the
>>> D40x.
>>>
>>> As mentioned above, this is my forst foray into buying a
>>> DSLR so expect I'm showing considerable naivety. Hence
>>> the potentially dumb questions.

>>
>> No Canon EOS SLR has focus motors in the body. Therefore all auto
>> focus lenses have focus motors. The Canon 400D can use any EF or EF-S
>> lens.
>>
>> If the sales guy really told you the above, I would shop elsewhere
>> ( or at least talk to a different sales person ).
>>

> The pentax K10D has in body and in lens focus motor. But you need to use
> a DA* lens with sdm. Da* lens dont come out for 2 more months. It nice
> how all pentax lens will work on a k10d even sdm lens.
>
> the sdm lens cost alot are they worth the price?


The first SDM lenes that are coming out are the Pentax DA* (Star) lenses,
these are the absolute top line lenes, think the best Canon L series
equivalent here, maybe the first ones will be even better. There are others
in the pipeline but in the meantime there are so many "Limited" lenses from
Pentax that you would be spoiled for choice with some superb lenses on
offer, this is why many choose Pentax.


 
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SMS
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      07-13-2007
AWroe wrote:
> Point taken re-the Canon lenses but one of the reasons for choosing
> the Canon is that you are not fixed on their lenses as you would be
> with a Nikon D40x. I think competition is a good thing!!
>
> I had read somewhere that there can occasionally be software issues
> between the camera and the Sigma lenses but that Sigma are constantly
> working on this and will put things right for you FOC.


Only for a certain length of time.

> Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?


Avoid them at all costs.

I'd go with the 400D over the D40x for several reasons:

1. No mirror lock-up on the D40x

2. Lens selection. As one reviewer wrote, comparing the two cameras, "A
Nikon D40x owner is at a serious disadvantage if they try to shoot
indoor sports since they donít have access to any bright (f/1.8 or
larger) prime lenses that can AF with the camera." OTOH, for the amateur
photographer, content with Nikon's AF-S consumer lenses (or the Sigma
HSM lenses) the D40x is alright.

3. No depth of field preview.

4. No bracketing on exposure or white balance.

5. No battery grip option (this is a biggie, a vertical grip with a
shutter release is a _very_ useful accessory even without the extra
battery capability. Maybe someone will make one as an aftermarket
accessory, as happened with the Nikon D70. Ansmann makes a battery grip,
but it lacks a shutter release, which makes it fairly worthless.

Canon really has no competitor to the D40x, which is a very low end
D-SLR. The D80 is more of the competitor to the 400D. I'm glad Nikon
brought out the D40x as it puts price pressure on Canon to keep the
price of their cheapest D-SLR close to the price of Nikon's cheapest
D-SLR, even though the Canon 400D is much better.

As to the relative advantages of competing Canon and Nikon models, I
think it's a wash in most cases. Canon does have a better selection of
lenses in certain segments, which Nikon can't offer due to their older
lens mount, but Nikon has some lenses which Canon doesn't have, at least
not yet.

While it may not matter to you, Canon has more of an upgrade path,
should you want to move up from amateur to "prosumer." Nikon has no
full-frame models yet, though it's likely this will change within the
next year (though this has been a prediction for probably the past three
years!). Canon already has migrated full-frame down from the pro level
to the prosumer level. Nikon's first full-frame will likely be pro only,
just like Canon's first full-frame.
 
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nospam
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Posts: n/a
 
      07-13-2007
In article <46980131$0$27227$(E-Mail Removed)>, SMS
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?

>
> Avoid them at all costs.


nonsense. tamron makes some excellent lenses, such as the 90mm macro.

<http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/tamron_90_28_nikon/index.htm>

The Tamron AF 90mm f/2.8 Di SP is a superb lens without any
significant flaws and it's easily as good as the corresponding
(classic) Micro-Nikkor - the resolution figures are extremely high,
vignetting is marginal, CAs are low and distortions are non-existent.

> I'd go with the 400D over the D40x for several reasons:
>
> 1. No mirror lock-up on the D40x


entry level users probably won't miss that

> 2. Lens selection.


there are over 40 lenses available that will autofocus the d40x with
additonal ones on the way and hundreds more that will work fine, but
with manual focus. the typical d40x buyer is not likely to have more
than a few lenses, but if they want the flexiblity, they can get a d80.


> 3. No depth of field preview.


entry level users probably won't miss that.

> 4. No bracketing on exposure or white balance.


minor problem; it is very easy to take a few pictures at various
exposures. white balance bracketing is silly -- shoot raw and adjust
later.

> 5. No battery grip option (this is a biggie,


this is not a biggie at all.

> Canon really has no competitor to the D40x, which is a very low end
> D-SLR. The D80 is more of the competitor to the 400D. I'm glad Nikon
> brought out the D40x as it puts price pressure on Canon to keep the
> price of their cheapest D-SLR close to the price of Nikon's cheapest
> D-SLR, even though the Canon 400D is much better.


nikon's cheapest dslr is the d40, not d40x.

> As to the relative advantages of competing Canon and Nikon models, I
> think it's a wash in most cases.


apparently not.

> Canon does have a better selection of
> lenses in certain segments, which Nikon can't offer due to their older
> lens mount, but Nikon has some lenses which Canon doesn't have, at least
> not yet.


nikon is not prevented from making lenses because of its older mount.
where do you come up with this stuff?

> While it may not matter to you, Canon has more of an upgrade path,
> should you want to move up from amateur to "prosumer."


nonsense. nikon's prosumer cameras, such as the d200, are outstanding
and better than a 30d in many ways (e.g., weather sealing, gps input).
nikon's pro cameras, such as the d2x are better still. new models are
expected within a month or two.
 
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Pete D
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      07-14-2007

"SMS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:46980131$0$27227$(E-Mail Removed)...
> AWroe wrote:
>> Point taken re-the Canon lenses but one of the reasons for choosing
>> the Canon is that you are not fixed on their lenses as you would be
>> with a Nikon D40x. I think competition is a good thing!!
>>
>> I had read somewhere that there can occasionally be software issues
>> between the camera and the Sigma lenses but that Sigma are constantly
>> working on this and will put things right for you FOC.

>
> Only for a certain length of time.
>
>> Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?

>
> Avoid them at all costs.
>
> I'd go with the 400D over the D40x for several reasons:
>
> 1. No mirror lock-up on the D40x


This is a beginners camera so will probably not be missed. I do prefer to
have it though.

> 2. Lens selection. As one reviewer wrote, comparing the two cameras, "A
> Nikon D40x owner is at a serious disadvantage if they try to shoot indoor
> sports since they donít have access to any bright (f/1.8 or larger) prime
> lenses that can AF with the camera." OTOH, for the amateur photographer,
> content with Nikon's AF-S consumer lenses (or the Sigma HSM lenses) the
> D40x is alright.


AF is overrated, a MF lens may even be better here.

> 3. No depth of field preview.


Meh, nice but not a deal killer, one of my D-SLRs has mechanical and digital
version of this and it is nice for adjusting WB.

> 4. No bracketing on exposure or white balance.


Not a big deal either, if you need this then I would recomend a 30D or D80
anyway.

> 5. No battery grip option (this is a biggie, a vertical grip with a
> shutter release is a _very_ useful accessory even without the extra
> battery capability. Maybe someone will make one as an aftermarket
> accessory, as happened with the Nikon D70. Ansmann makes a battery grip,
> but it lacks a shutter release, which makes it fairly worthless.


This is a lightweight camera, keep it light, keep it simple.

> Canon really has no competitor to the D40x, which is a very low end D-SLR.
> The D80 is more of the competitor to the 400D. I'm glad Nikon brought out
> the D40x as it puts price pressure on Canon to keep the price of their
> cheapest D-SLR close to the price of Nikon's cheapest D-SLR, even though
> the Canon 400D is much better.
>
> As to the relative advantages of competing Canon and Nikon models, I think
> it's a wash in most cases. Canon does have a better selection of lenses in
> certain segments, which Nikon can't offer due to their older lens mount,
> but Nikon has some lenses which Canon doesn't have, at least not yet.


I admit Canon has the long size covered (at great expense mostly) but the
choices at up to small tele is pretty well covered by both.

> While it may not matter to you, Canon has more of an upgrade path, should
> you want to move up from amateur to "prosumer." Nikon has no full-frame
> models yet, though it's likely this will change within the next year
> (though this has been a prediction for probably the past three years!).
> Canon already has migrated full-frame down from the pro level to the
> prosumer level. Nikon's first full-frame will likely be pro only, just
> like Canon's first full-frame.


Full frame is overrated, all the EF-S lenses are throw aways anyway if you
"upgrade". With Nikon if you upgrade to say a D2X then all your crop lenses
will be fine.


 
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SMS
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      07-14-2007
nospam wrote:
> In article <46980131$0$27227$(E-Mail Removed)>, SMS
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> Anybody got an opinion on Tamron lenses?

>> Avoid them at all costs.

>
> nonsense. tamron makes some excellent lenses, such as the 90mm macro.


It's decent optically, but the build quality isn't great. That's often
what you'll find on the third party lenses from Sigma and Tamron.

>> 1. No mirror lock-up on the D40x

>
> entry level users probably won't miss that


Except they won't remain entry level forever. I guess Nikon decided that
they better de-content the D40x sufficiently so that people will not buy
it instead of the D80.

>
>> 2. Lens selection.

>
> there are over 40 lenses available that will autofocus the d40x with
> additonal ones on the way and hundreds more that will work fine, but
> with manual focus. the typical d40x buyer is not likely to have more
> than a few lenses, but if they want the flexiblity, they can get a d80.


Yeah, that's what I advise too, go with the D80 for the flexibility. The
D40x just has no value advantage.

>> 3. No depth of field preview.

>
> entry level users probably won't miss that.


Except they won't remain entry level forever. I guess Nikon decided that
they better de-content the D40x sufficiently so that people will not buy
it instead of the D80.

>> 4. No bracketing on exposure or white balance.

>
> minor problem; it is very easy to take a few pictures at various
> exposures.


LOL, not as fast as the camera can do bracketing. I guess Nikon decided
that they better de-content the D40x sufficiently so that people will
buy higher level cameras.

LOL

>> 5. No battery grip option (this is a biggie,

>
> this is not a biggie at all.


It's huge. It's a no-compromise accessory for MANY users that have gone
beyond entry level and like to shoot in portrait mode a lot. Ansmann
came out with a battery grip, but it lacks the shutter release. For the
D70, three different companies came out with aftermarket grips, that's
how much of a demand there was for it. I guess Nikon decided that they
better de-content the D40x sufficiently so that people will not buy it
instead of the D80.

>> Canon really has no competitor to the D40x, which is a very low end
>> D-SLR. The D80 is more of the competitor to the 400D. I'm glad Nikon
>> brought out the D40x as it puts price pressure on Canon to keep the
>> price of their cheapest D-SLR close to the price of Nikon's cheapest
>> D-SLR, even though the Canon 400D is much better.

>
> nikon's cheapest dslr is the d40, not d40x.


Yeah, this is true.

>> As to the relative advantages of competing Canon and Nikon models, I
>> think it's a wash in most cases.

>
> apparently not.
>
>> Canon does have a better selection of
>> lenses in certain segments, which Nikon can't offer due to their older
>> lens mount, but Nikon has some lenses which Canon doesn't have, at least
>> not yet.

>
> nikon is not prevented from making lenses because of its older mount.
> where do you come up with this stuff?


It's very well documented.

The limitations of the Nikon lens mount mean that certain lenses than
Canon has, are simply not possible. These are mainly the very fast, and
very expensive, professional lenses, such as the Canon 50m/f1.0 and the
85mm/f1.2. If you really need such fast lenses, then you will need to go
the Canon route.

> nonsense. nikon's prosumer cameras, such as the d200, are outstanding
> and better than a 30d in many ways (e.g., weather sealing, gps input).
> nikon's pro cameras, such as the d2x are better still. new models are
> expected within a month or two.


Nikon doesn't make any high end professional cameras, or any full-frame
prosumer cameras...yet. If the buyer has any desire to move up to pro
level, they should start with a system that has an upgrade path, not
wait and hope that the manufacturer will come up with one at sometime in
the future.

In any case, the D80 or 400D are both good choices. Just avoid the D40
and D40x at all costs.
 
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