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Allow log on locally in Default Domain Controller Policy.

 
 
=?Utf-8?B?UmVic3U=?=
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      06-07-2005
I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on locally
setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or dangerous?
Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.
 
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Bill Griffith
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      06-08-2005
That is not a default install. The default install has Account Operators,
Administrators, Backup Operators, Print Operators and Server Operators in
the list to Allow log on locally.
Your config is not recommended and is a security problem. I would change it
if I were you.

Bill Griffith

"Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
> noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
> locally
> setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or dangerous?
> Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.



 
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zenner
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      06-08-2005
Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?

Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
permission list, and if so...why?

Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable, given
the circumstances of your companies environment.

Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
Guideline, instead of rules.
"Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
> noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
> locally
> setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or dangerous?
> Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.



 
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rainman
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      06-09-2005
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Hash: SHA1

zenner wrote:
> Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>
> Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
> sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
> about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
> permission list, and if so...why?
>
> Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable, given
> the circumstances of your companies environment.
>
> Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
> Guideline, instead of rules.
> "Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>locally
>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or dangerous?
>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>
>
>


It has to be this way in the domain policy... the logon locally policy
affects all domain computers. Nobody could log onto any domain computer
if it were denied. However, that's for the domain policy, which
propagates to domain computers... not the server's own policy which does
not propagate. It should probably be removed from the server's
permissions, if it's there.

Rainman
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zenner
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      06-09-2005
There is no reason that a normal user needs to logon to a Domain Controller.
Anything he needs should be accessed through an API. Files are access
through shares, printers through spooler, applications through whatever API
that the app provides. Only members of one of the Admin groups, by default,
are allowed Logon rights to a DC. Member servers are an entirely different
issue.

Are we talking about the same thing?

"zenner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fnIpe.1581$(E-Mail Removed) ...
> Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>
> Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
> sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
> about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
> permission list, and if so...why?
>
> Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
> given the circumstances of your companies environment.
>
> Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
> Guideline, instead of rules.
> "Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
>> noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>> locally
>> setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>> dangerous?
>> Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>
>



 
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rainman
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      06-10-2005
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

There is one reason why a normal user needs logon locally permissions to
the server: FTP via IIS. If the user needs FTP access to the server, you
HAVE to give him local logon rights, just because that's the way IIS works.

However, it is more likely the answer to this problem lies in my
previous post in this thread...

zenner wrote:
> There is no reason that a normal user needs to logon to a Domain Controller.
> Anything he needs should be accessed through an API. Files are access
> through shares, printers through spooler, applications through whatever API
> that the app provides. Only members of one of the Admin groups, by default,
> are allowed Logon rights to a DC. Member servers are an entirely different
> issue.
>
> Are we talking about the same thing?
>
> "zenner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:fnIpe.1581$(E-Mail Removed) ...
>
>>Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>>
>>Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
>>sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
>>about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
>>permission list, and if so...why?
>>
>>Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
>>given the circumstances of your companies environment.
>>
>>Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
>>Guideline, instead of rules.
>>"Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292 and
>>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>>locally
>>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>>>dangerous?
>>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>>
>>

>
>


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zenner
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-10-2005
As noted by your explanation. If you are aware that you are circumventing
accepted practices for a DC and are willing to accept the risk..that is your
decision.

My point is still valid, given accepted practice and for security...no user
has a reason for local access to a DC. Even placing an FTP server on a DC,
you can still set up your permission to avoid giving local logon access to
normal users.

If you feel it acceptable risk, It's your system, do as you feel is
reasonable. I still suggest you research a better solution.
"rainman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> There is one reason why a normal user needs logon locally permissions to
> the server: FTP via IIS. If the user needs FTP access to the server, you
> HAVE to give him local logon rights, just because that's the way IIS
> works.
>
> However, it is more likely the answer to this problem lies in my
> previous post in this thread...
>
> zenner wrote:
>> There is no reason that a normal user needs to logon to a Domain
>> Controller.
>> Anything he needs should be accessed through an API. Files are access
>> through shares, printers through spooler, applications through whatever
>> API
>> that the app provides. Only members of one of the Admin groups, by
>> default,
>> are allowed Logon rights to a DC. Member servers are an entirely
>> different
>> issue.
>>
>> Are we talking about the same thing?
>>
>> "zenner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:fnIpe.1581$(E-Mail Removed) ...
>>
>>>Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>>>
>>>Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
>>>sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
>>>about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
>>>permission list, and if so...why?
>>>
>>>Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
>>>given the circumstances of your companies environment.
>>>
>>>Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
>>>Guideline, instead of rules.
>>>"Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292
>>>>and
>>>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>>>locally
>>>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>>>>dangerous?
>>>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFCqbRk9ZOMhmWO5XkRAjWvAJ0Z2HcgTi2RbCxmw/38TFnqVEimJACfeYyN
> MeUR8n07AJTwj/OlFoBrnCY=
> =fQ/S
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



 
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Bill Griffith
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-11-2005
Maybe you should read the original question more carefully. He said Default
Domain Controllers Policy.

Bill Griffith

"rainman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> zenner wrote:
>> Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>>
>> Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
>> sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
>> about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
>> permission list, and if so...why?
>>
>> Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
>> given
>> the circumstances of your companies environment.
>>
>> Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
>> Guideline, instead of rules.
>> "Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292
>>>and
>>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>>locally
>>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>>>dangerous?
>>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>>
>>
>>

>
> It has to be this way in the domain policy... the logon locally policy
> affects all domain computers. Nobody could log onto any domain computer
> if it were denied. However, that's for the domain policy, which
> propagates to domain computers... not the server's own policy which does
> not propagate. It should probably be removed from the server's
> permissions, if it's there.
>
> Rainman
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFCp6XE9ZOMhmWO5XkRAr/FAJ0Z63mvjdzdUx9RKvhY43kP0XuSHQCdFbb0
> wXHneiJZq7VYhItyYtH2kNg=
> =ayLn
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



 
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rainman
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Posts: n/a
 
      06-11-2005
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Personally I suggest not using FTP on a DC at all, because IIS, like IE,
is notorious for security holes... not to mention that it just wouldn't
be useful unless you're doubling up server duties for lack of cash...
but unfortunately it is necessary for the feature if somebody does make
that (poor) choice.

Rainman

zenner wrote:
> As noted by your explanation. If you are aware that you are circumventing
> accepted practices for a DC and are willing to accept the risk..that is your
> decision.
>
> My point is still valid, given accepted practice and for security...no user
> has a reason for local access to a DC. Even placing an FTP server on a DC,
> you can still set up your permission to avoid giving local logon access to
> normal users.
>
> If you feel it acceptable risk, It's your system, do as you feel is
> reasonable. I still suggest you research a better solution.
> "rainman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> There is one reason why a normal user needs logon locally permissions to
> the server: FTP via IIS. If the user needs FTP access to the server, you
> HAVE to give him local logon rights, just because that's the way IIS
> works.
>
> However, it is more likely the answer to this problem lies in my
> previous post in this thread...
>
> zenner wrote:
>
>>There is no reason that a normal user needs to logon to a Domain
>>Controller.
>>Anything he needs should be accessed through an API. Files are access
>>through shares, printers through spooler, applications through whatever
>>API
>>that the app provides. Only members of one of the Admin groups, by
>>default,
>>are allowed Logon rights to a DC. Member servers are an entirely
>>different
>>issue.

>
>>Are we talking about the same thing?

>
>>"zenner" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:fnIpe.1581$(E-Mail Removed) om...

>
>
>>>Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?

>
>>>Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
>>>sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
>>>about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
>>>permission list, and if so...why?

>
>>>Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
>>>given the circumstances of your companies environment.

>
>>>Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
>>>Guideline, instead of rules.
>>>"Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
>
>>>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292
>>>>and
>>>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>>>locally
>>>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>>>>dangerous?
>>>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>
>
>

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Guest
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      06-11-2005
rainman touches fat people... film at eleven.

"rainman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> zenner wrote:
>> Is your DC also serving double duty as possibly a File or Printer server?
>>
>> Your System Administrator may have an explanation, if you are not the
>> sysAdmin...then ask him or her (respectfully, if possible.) if they knew
>> about it and/or intended to include domain users in the "logon locally"
>> permission list, and if so...why?
>>
>> Asked in the right way you may get an explanation that is reasonable,
>> given
>> the circumstances of your companies environment.
>>
>> Even the best guidelines have exceptions...that's why the are called
>> Guideline, instead of rules.
>> "Rebsu" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>I was looking over our group policy settings while studying for 70-292
>>>and
>>>noticed that the group Domain Users is included in the Allow log on
>>>locally
>>>setting in the Default Domain Controller Policy. Is this ok or
>>>dangerous?
>>>Is it necessary? DCs are 2003 standard.

>>
>>
>>

>
> It has to be this way in the domain policy... the logon locally policy
> affects all domain computers. Nobody could log onto any domain computer
> if it were denied. However, that's for the domain policy, which
> propagates to domain computers... not the server's own policy which does
> not propagate. It should probably be removed from the server's
> permissions, if it's there.
>
> Rainman
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFCp6XE9ZOMhmWO5XkRAr/FAJ0Z63mvjdzdUx9RKvhY43kP0XuSHQCdFbb0
> wXHneiJZq7VYhItyYtH2kNg=
> =ayLn
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



 
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