«

"<!-- Microcephalic S. Bob --> <? echo "The F-Word"; ?> <!-- Unorthodox
Interpretation -->" <[~_~] { http://www.planetoftheheads.com/ - head first
into the future }> wrote in message
news:%...
> "JohnnyMn" <> wrote in message
> news:A09CD4AB-8CCA-4507-8575-...
>> Sorry about last empty post. Anyhow, I used to agree with you regarding
>> certs. I have almost 10 years in the biz and jumped into the MCSE last
>> year.
>> I can tell you 2 things:
>> 1) I wasn't as smart as I thought I was
>> 2) Now that I'm almost done, I just started a new job paying $10K/year
>> more
>> with bennies.
>>
>> Take it as you see fit.
>
> The opinion I rendered wasn't really about certifications, it was about
> the opening of doors the original poster was referring to.
>
> My basic point there is, if you can't think for yourself, why would anyone
> want to hire you?

er, your name is george bush?

snip

but if as swollen head suggests, you are going to go oracle, indeed
worthwhile, don't waste time on msft operating systems.
>
> OPEN YOUR OWN DOORS. MAKE YOUR OWN OPPORTUNITIES.

oh, but of course. we have always said that. if you want to do this, but
don't feel in you from birth, take dale carnagie courses, not IT drivel.

> A point specific to you... 10 years in IT is pretty much 8 years too many.
> I've seen too many of these career IT people who reach a point that they
> can't move forward from to consider it a lifelong ambition to be in IT.
> If you are forward thinking, you'll be looking at how to manage people and
> projects. Maybe see if you can't create something on your own that could
> be useful.

something like this: http://forgetmenotpanties.contagiousmedia.org/

> I can tell you two things:
>
> 1. You're right, you weren't as smart as you thought you were, and as
> Briscobar says, it's likely that you still aren't, and nobody really is.

IT people while thinking themselves brilliant have been consistently stupid
from the beginning. That's why an experienced truck driver can make as much
or more than an experienced Windows admin.

> you're not careful, you'll be out to pasture when the next wave of changes
> in IT and business comes around.

true. consider another field.

> 2. Inflation, location/cost of living adjustments, stupid management,
> drugs, and alcohol are just as likely to be the reason for a higher salary
> as an MCSE.

Sounds like more vodka will make me richer. god, have i been waiting to
hear that. now, if i can only find susie resume advisor to tell me how to
work that into my resume.

>
> Also, if someone can't do the job, it's stupid to hire them over someone
> that can simply because they have a document. I'd hire someone with
> experience over someone with a document that says they know things, I'd
> take the guy with experience the majority of the time

this has been disposed of long ago, and all you guys who consider yourselves
intelligent should simply forget about it. you have no certs but have done
forty thousand admin 2000-2003 things for jims auto parts in blooshbooska,
wisconsin. some other guy has done fourteen things for citibank in new york
and has two mcse's. he doesn't know ****. who will get the interview?

> Now, the truth of the matter: I don't want a job. Nobody in their right
> mind does.

damn~!!!! i knew i should have taken that offer to drive the package from
mexico to new york!
ten thousand a day!

That's why I'm taking a few risks and seeing if I can't do something a
> little different.

yeah, so what are you doing? lets hear about it, dude. put it out there,
don't just say "i am doing the things you punks should be doing."
personally, i am thinking about becoming a mystery shopper in my spare
time. i could get shot. what are your risks?

> consequences of leadership and the value of responsibility (which,
> incidentally, is EVIL). This much I've already learned.

whoa! sounds like you are dubya and not me! what you do dood, cheat your
employees out of everything you promised? or, since in your some other
posts you seem like a fairly witty fellow (i ascribe virtue to that,
wrongly) were you simply, uh, blindsided.

btw, the reason i am quibbling with you is that most of the rest of the
folks here, jar excluded, ain't worth it.

dbw

"dubya" <> wrote in message
news:...

> but if as swollen head suggests, you are going to go oracle, indeed
> worthwhile, don't waste time on msft operating systems.
>>
>> OPEN YOUR OWN DOORS. MAKE YOUR OWN OPPORTUNITIES.
>
> oh, but of course. we have always said that. if you want to do this, but
> don't feel in you from birth, take dale carnagie courses, not IT drivel.

I should have put it more bluntly: SET PEOPLE ON FIRE. KILL ALL THE SMURFS.
MARVIN IS THE ENEMY. PASTA IS FREEDOM. FREEDOM IS LIFE. ALL SPICE FLOW ON
ARAKKIS WILL COME TO A HALT.

> Maybe see if you can't create something on your own that could
>> be useful.
>
> something like this: http://forgetmenotpanties.contagiousmedia.org/

No. That's just pointless. If your wife has a body like the one in the
picture, and you aren't abusing her and making her feel bad about herself,
OF COURSE SHE'S CHEATING ON YOU. Undergarments that give you a printout of
a bar graph of her hourly sphincter dilation can only add to your grief.

I'm talking about new kinds of hovering Pez dispensers filled with Viagra
and marshmallows, or writing the new Bonanza series. I'm talking about
inventing a new flavor of pink gravy, fingerpainting a scene filled with the
sorrows of monkeys, CLONING SELF-PEELING BANANAS, YODELING FOR THE DEAF, AND
THE ACHIEVEMENT OF A PERMANENT ORANGE AFRO!

>> I can tell you two things:
>>
>> 1. You're right, you weren't as smart as you thought you were, and as
>> Briscobar says, it's likely that you still aren't, and nobody really is.
>
> IT people while thinking themselves brilliant have been consistently
> stupid from the beginning. That's why an experienced truck driver can
> make as much or more than an experienced Windows admin.

Can make as much or more of WHAT, I wonder.

>> you're not careful, you'll be out to pasture when the next wave of
>> changes in IT and business comes around.
>
> true. consider another field.

and picking the cotton you find there to manufacture counterfeit Microsoft
t-shirts. THAT's where the real money is.

>
>> 2. Inflation, location/cost of living adjustments, stupid management,
>> drugs, and alcohol are just as likely to be the reason for a higher
>> salary as an MCSE.
>
> Sounds like more vodka will make me richer. god, have i been waiting to
> hear that. now, if i can only find susie resume advisor to tell me how to
> work that into my resume.

It will, because with your inhibitions reduced, you'll sleep with more fat
women, and be willing to accept money for it. And by putting it on your
resume, you'll be able to do radio appearances, maybe get a book deal. In
just a few years, you could be rich beyond your wildest dreams and dead on a
toilet.

> you have no certs but have done forty thousand admin 2000-2003 things for
> jims auto parts in blooshbooska, wisconsin. some other guy has done
> fourteen things for citibank in new york and has two mcse's. he doesn't
> know ****. who will get the interview?

That's understood, but that guy is already employed. What we're talking
about is, will an MCSE open the door to the CRAPPY job that the billionaires
second cousin doesn't already have. And the truth is, it won't, because once
you have that certificate, you are going to cost too much for anyone to hire
you.

>> Now, the truth of the matter: I don't want a job. Nobody in their right
>> mind does.
>
> damn~!!!! i knew i should have taken that offer to drive the package
> from mexico to new york!
> ten thousand a day!

It's too late, the midget escaped. I'd show you his picture, but Kline
Sphere would have a seizure, and I can't be responsible for that. Instead, I
recommend getting surgery to look like Kenny Rogers. From the look of
things, there's a future in it. It's a growing trend.

> That's why I'm taking a few risks and seeing if I can't do something a
>> little different.
>
> yeah, so what are you doing? lets hear about it, dude. put it out there,
> don't just say "i am doing the things you punks should be doing."

CRIME! THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING, ALRIGHT! I'M A CRIMINAL! AND NOW EVERYONE
KNOWS MY SHAME! NOW STOP IT! you're hurting my feelings... why won't they
just leave me alone?

> personally, i am thinking about becoming a mystery shopper in my spare
> time. i could get shot. what are your risks?

I'm risking everything, all three dollars worth.

>
>> consequences of leadership and the value of responsibility (which,
>> incidentally, is EVIL). This much I've already learned.
>
> whoa! sounds like you are dubya and not me! what you do dood, cheat your
> employees out of everything you promised?

I wore a clown suit and gave spankings to foreign investors, ok?! And it's a
terrible, terrible thing to live with, responsibility... it's EVIL! This
much I've already learned.

> or, since in your some other posts you seem like a fairly witty fellow (i
> ascribe virtue to that, wrongly) were you simply, uh, blindsided.

Those posts weren't written by me. I hired a ghost writer.

> btw, the reason i am quibbling with you is that most of the rest of the
> folks here, jar excluded, ain't worth it.

Well, it's not worth it, but at least you didn't have to study for a long
time or pay money to Microsoft to find out.


Microcephalic S. Bob
http://www.roblindman.com/ - it's not worth it

Finally, a comment from someone worht hearing from.

"zenner" wrote:

> What is most interesting, at least it is to me...is the number of people
> that invest so much time, thought and effort posting to an MCSE forum only
> to denigrate the certification.
>
> Why is that?
>
> After years of hearing the same tiresome arguments, over and over, you would
> think this was subject was done and done. In all sincerity, my request is
> simple... have something new to say, please!
>
> Lately, college degree is the "Hurdle" Du jour. Previously it was years of
> experience, Web development, before that it was Unix/Linux, before that it
> was network...firewall, programming. The list evolves only to "thin the
> herd".
>
> But the real comedy remains in viewing the never ending disgust some people
> heap on MCSE/MCSA. Is it sour grapes, fear of failure, or reluctance
> (inability?) to take and pass the exams?
>
> You would think, that any professional would be eager to documented
> certification of his skills. Sure, there are a number of non-certified
> people with skills, but their skills are not easily transportable. If they
> chose to change employers and the company refuses to confirm the depth of
> their skill (strictly speaking, a former employer is within his rights to
> merely confirm term of employment, dates and duration, nothing further).
> Certification is to "your" benefit as well as potential employers.
>
> You are held hostage, unless you can present some form of verification of
> skills. It is laughable, the lengths people will go to in explanation of why
> they can't pass, won't attempt or seek to avoid taking a simple exam. Saying
> that MS is making money on it doesn't explain it all...DMV charges for
> taking a drivers test too, try telling the patrol officer that you chose not
> to take the exam, that you have too many years of experience to stoop to
> taking a useless test. Besides, we all know a written test doesn't prove you
> can actually drive, it only proves you know the rules of the road. And just
> because you can pass an on road test with the agent, still doesn't prove you
> know what to do in an emergency situation.
>
> Bottom line? Take the test or don't take the test. Just quit whining and
> moaning about it!
> "Bruce" <> wrote in message
> news:650073DE-1E06-4D3D-97A3-...
> >I have read many comments, in this forum, about the value of an MCSE
> > certification with and without experience. It reminds me of discussions,
> > many years ago, about the value of a college degree. A college degree did
> > not guarantee a job and college grads typically do not have much
> > experience.
> > So what value did the degree have that offset the tremendous cost of
> > achieving it?
> >
> > Simple. Many more doors will be opened for the person that has chosen to
> > get a college degree than one that didn't. I personally feel the same way
> > about the MCSE. I know that it doesn't guarantee a job, but the lack of
> > it
> > will diminish the opportunity of getting an interview, of opening a door.
> > I
> > think that poeple with IT experience, but no current MCSE, are probably
> > less
> > likely to get a good job with another company. In other words, their
> > skills
> > are less portable.
> >
> > I have been in a number of interviews where the interviewer (an IT person)
> > bad-mouthed the concept of certifications and yet their employment
> > advertisement stated a requirement for certifications. I would ask these
> > people what prompted them to invite me for an interview. The answer was
> > always the same, my college degree and my current certification.
>
>
>

zenner wrote:
> What is most interesting, at least it is to me...is the number of
> people that invest so much time, thought and effort posting to an
> MCSE forum only to denigrate the certification.
>
> Why is that?

I stopped reading at this point. I don't like you anymore.

> ALL SPICE FLOW ON ARAKKIS WILL COME TO A HALT.

I prefer the mini series to the movie. Although they both had their good
points...





What??





The tooth... The tooth... The tooth...

In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, dubya expostulated for all the world to
hear;

> btw, the reason i am quibbling with you is that most of the rest of the
> folks here, jar excluded, ain't worth it.

Uhhh...thanks?

--
JaR
Thug 10110
MCNGP.com Heisenberg's Dept.

> btw, the reason i am quibbling with you is that most of the rest of
> the folks here, jar excluded, ain't worth it.
>
> dbw

That might hurt my feelings if I knew who you are.
--
aka
Doom MCNGP #38
www.mcngp.com knocked up your sister.
Don't forget to send spam to

In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, =?Utf-8?B?QnJ1Y2U=?= expostulated for
all the world to hear;

> Finally, a comment from someone worht hearing from.
>

Why? Because in your opinion, he's right? Do you feel that people that
disagree with your views should just shut up? Are you sure your views are
correct? Is it remotely possible that someone could have an opinion that is
different than yours?

Is it possible that you are one of these;

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?UnskilledAndUnawareOfIt

Or maybe everybody that disagrees with you are?

Or maybe the answer really is 42!

--
JaR
Thug 10110
MCNGP.com dept of unskilled labor

>But the real comedy remains in viewing the never ending disgust some people
>heap on MCSE/MCSA. Is it sour grapes, fear of failure, or reluctance
>(inability?) to take and pass the exams?

It's 'sour grape's for me - I just wished I'd thought of all ways to
scam people out of their hard earned cash first...

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

>Sure, there are a number of non-certified
>people with skills, but their skills are not easily transportable.

utter crap.

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3