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Classroom vs Self Study

 
 
Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to decide
which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get back in
the job market as soon as possible.

I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been able
to land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also because all of
the IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger cities, which I am
unwilling to do. Most of the jobs available locally are now Microsoft
territory.

The two options I am currently considering are:

1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days
of training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom per
month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.

2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from Amazon;
and set up lab here at home.

The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are actually
considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I should
know more about that later in the week. Even if they are willing to do
that for me, I am still not sure it is the best path, for a variety of
reasons.

Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big
difference which way I go. However, I do recognize that the independent
study approach takes more personal initiative.

One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and
agree with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not interested
in this approach, and I expect to earn my certification.

And and all feedback is welcome.

Thanks,
Mike
 
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Steven L Umbach
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
Sorry to hear about your situation Mike. If unemployment is willing to pay
for it by all means go for it, after all you have paid enough into the
system over the years. With your background I would however recommend that
you also set up a lab at home as it will accelerate the learning process
immensely if you really want to learn and are disciplined to do such. Try to
be ahead of the curve for the lessons in the class so you can focus on
increasing knowledge on what you are unsure of. Below is a copy of a
previous post I made on the subject of self study. Good luck. --- Steve

************************************************** ***
It is very possible if you actually take the time to learn everything from
your home lab. I suggest your lab be at least three computers [old PII
Dell's on Ebay are fine], a couple of monitors, a KVM switch, and some of
those removable drive trays that you can buy at compgeeks.com for around
$10. Then get the evaluation editions of W2K and W2003 and with multiple
hard drives in dual/triple boot mode you can have a small network that can
do about everything - forests, child domains, additional domain controllers,
etc. Most of the exam books have work along labs. The exam books and online
sources will have end of chapter questions and/or practice exam questions.
Do not dwell on questions that rely on rote memorization questions. The real
exam questions are mostly problem and solution format of some kind. Know all
the main server utilities but don't worry about all the syntax [ no on could
possibly know all the syntax for netsh] , with the exception of ipconfig.
For the rest know what the utilities are used for, the major syntax uses,
and how to interpret results. Go to cramsession to read exam reviews and
tips.


http://www.cramsession.com/certifica.../mcse-2003.asp


There are many books available for the individual exams. I suggest you read
the reviews at Amazon to help choose those. However I highly recommend that
you buy Mark Minasi's Mastering Windows 2003 Server for you base learning
book to read first. However it is not an Exam guide but it will do an
excellent job of teaching you Windows 2003. Then buy the Windows 2003 Pocket
Consultant to carry with you everywhere for learning Windows 2003. It is a
compact cut to the bones admin book. Also buy the Microsoft Press book for
70-299 on implementing security as the other non security exam books do a
poor job on covering security and the W2003 exams are much more geared to
security than W2000 [at least the upgrade exams were]. The Labmice is an
excellent resource to Windows 2003 resources as is the Windows 2003 Server
Deployment Kit which is a free download. You can download individual
chapters also. Good luck. --- Steve


http://labmice.techtarget.com/windows2003/default.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...skit/deploykit....


"



"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gfRId.242$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to decide
>which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get back in the
>job market as soon as possible.
>
> I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
> mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been able to
> land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also because all of the
> IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger cities, which I am unwilling
> to do. Most of the jobs available locally are now Microsoft territory.
>
> The two options I am currently considering are:
>
> 1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days of
> training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom per
> month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.
>
> 2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from Amazon;
> and set up lab here at home.
>
> The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
> However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are actually
> considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I should know
> more about that later in the week. Even if they are willing to do that
> for me, I am still not sure it is the best path, for a variety of reasons.
>
> Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big difference
> which way I go. However, I do recognize that the independent study
> approach takes more personal initiative.
>
> One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and agree
> with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not interested in this
> approach, and I expect to earn my certification.
>
> And and all feedback is welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike



 
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Stephen Charles Rea \(MCT\)
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
I would recommend the classroom based courses, however if you feel you have
that personal drive to do it yourself and can commit to learning then self
study should suffice. As for the offset with the unemployment office, I've
had the opportunity to teach several "displaced workers" which have had
state and federal funded training. It's a great idea because if it gets
people back in the job market it removes one more person from the system.

In any case good luck with both your training and your job searching!

--
"The Rev"
Microsoft Certified Trainer

Fig Newton: The force required to accelerate a fig 39.37 inches/second
..
"Mike" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gfRId.242$(E-Mail Removed).. .
> I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to decide
> which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get back in
> the job market as soon as possible.
>
> I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
> mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been able
> to land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also because all of
> the IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger cities, which I am
> unwilling to do. Most of the jobs available locally are now Microsoft
> territory.
>
> The two options I am currently considering are:
>
> 1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days
> of training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom per
> month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.
>
> 2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from Amazon;
> and set up lab here at home.
>
> The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
> However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are actually
> considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I should
> know more about that later in the week. Even if they are willing to do
> that for me, I am still not sure it is the best path, for a variety of
> reasons.
>
> Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big
> difference which way I go. However, I do recognize that the independent
> study approach takes more personal initiative.
>
> One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and
> agree with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not interested
> in this approach, and I expect to earn my certification.
>
> And and all feedback is welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike



 
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Who Goes There
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
In news:gfRId.242$(E-Mail Removed),
Mike <(E-Mail Removed)> somehow managed to typed:

> I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to
> decide which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get
> back in the job market as soon as possible.
>
> I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
> mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been
> able to land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also
> because all of the IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger
> cities, which I am unwilling to do. Most of the jobs available
> locally are now Microsoft territory.
>
> The two options I am currently considering are:
>
> 1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days
> of training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom
> per month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.
>
> 2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from
> Amazon; and set up lab here at home.
>
> The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
> However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are
> actually considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I
> should know more about that later in the week. Even if they are
> willing to do that for me, I am still not sure it is the best path,
> for a variety of reasons.
>
> Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big
> difference which way I go. However, I do recognize that the
> independent study approach takes more personal initiative.
>
> One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and
> agree with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not
> interested in this approach, and I expect to earn my certification.
>
> And and all feedback is welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike


I went the self-taught route and haven't regretted it. It's a lot cheaper,
there's more learnt imho, and you get a lot more hands-on experience than in
a classroom. You may not have a tutor but there are groups such as this one
and many resources to use on the web

I have a 4pc setup with 2 servers and 2 clients, but my work also pay for
courses though they don't have exams at the end of them. They're the MOCs at
New Horizon in London.

If you can get the course paid for you, why not do both?


Good Luck





 
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Neil
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
did you hear "Stephen Charles Rea \(MCT\)" <Stephen Charles Rea (MCT)
@discussions.microsoft.com> say in news:uSDt5jXAFHA.2180
@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:

> I would recommend the classroom based courses


any particular bias there? <grin>

I would agree that classrooms can be a benefit (learn from the experinece
of the trainer, forces you do hit the books and do labs) but I have seen
great success from self study too. Frankly, self study should occur even
after the class is over.

--
Neil MCNGP #30
Visit www.mcngp.com for your chance to amuse
nerd32768 and annoy the rest of us
 
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catwalker63
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
Neil <guess!!!@gmail.com> prattled ceaslessly in
news:Xns95E79194BE9CBneilmcsegmailcom@207.46.248.1 6:

> did you hear "Stephen Charles Rea \(MCT\)" <Stephen Charles Rea (MCT)
> @discussions.microsoft.com> say in news:uSDt5jXAFHA.2180
> @TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl:
>
>> I would recommend the classroom based courses

>
> any particular bias there? <grin>
>
> I would agree that classrooms can be a benefit (learn from the
> experinece of the trainer, forces you do hit the books and do labs)
> but I have seen great success from self study too. Frankly, self study
> should occur even after the class is over.
>


And forever after. Set yourself up to continue your education for as
long as you intend to work in this field, regardless of whether you take
any exams.

--
Catwalker
aka Pu$$y Feet
BS, MCP
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com

"I'm not bossy! I just know what nerdbunchanumbers should be doing!"
 
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Neil
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-23-2005
did you hear catwalker63 <(E-Mail Removed)> say in
news:Xns95E791E6137E3catwalker63athotmail@216.196. 97.136:

>
> And forever after. Set yourself up to continue your education for as
> long as you intend to work in this field, regardless of whether you

take
> any exams.
>


here, here...

--
Neil MCNGP #30
Visit www.mcngp.com for your chance to amuse
nerd32768 and annoy the rest of us
 
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Mike
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-24-2005
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. It has been very helpful.

Mike

Mike wrote:
> I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to decide
> which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get back in
> the job market as soon as possible.
>
> I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
> mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been able
> to land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also because all of
> the IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger cities, which I am
> unwilling to do. Most of the jobs available locally are now Microsoft
> territory.
>
> The two options I am currently considering are:
>
> 1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days
> of training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom per
> month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.
>
> 2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from Amazon;
> and set up lab here at home.
>
> The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
> However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are actually
> considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I should
> know more about that later in the week. Even if they are willing to do
> that for me, I am still not sure it is the best path, for a variety of
> reasons.
>
> Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big
> difference which way I go. However, I do recognize that the independent
> study approach takes more personal initiative.
>
> One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and
> agree with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not interested
> in this approach, and I expect to earn my certification.
>
> And and all feedback is welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

 
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=?Utf-8?B?Um9uYXRob3NwaWNl?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      01-24-2005
I agree, do both. If they are willing to pay for the classroom stuff and you
are willing to commit to a home network for self study, you have the best of
both worlds. Good Luck!

"Who Goes There" wrote:

> In news:gfRId.242$(E-Mail Removed),
> Mike <(E-Mail Removed)> somehow managed to typed:
>
> > I have decided to pursue an MCSE certification, and am trying to
> > decide which path to follow. One important criteria for me is to get
> > back in the job market as soon as possible.
> >
> > I have been working in the IT industry for 36 years supporting IBM
> > mainframe systems. I was layed-off last May and have not yet been
> > able to land a job. Probably because of my age (5, but also
> > because all of the IBM Mainframe shops have migrated to larger
> > cities, which I am unwilling to do. Most of the jobs available
> > locally are now Microsoft territory.
> >
> > The two options I am currently considering are:
> >
> > 1) Sign up for classes at a local learning center. They offer 37 days
> > of training spread over 8 months (approximately 1 week of classroom
> > per month). Cost is $9500 which includes classroom, books, tests, etc.
> >
> > 2) Purchase, and study, self-paced training kits available from
> > Amazon; and set up lab here at home.
> >
> > The first issue is that the $9500 seems like an awful lot of money.
> > However, I spoke with the unemployment office here and they are
> > actually considering paying for it since I am a "displaced worker". I
> > should know more about that later in the week. Even if they are
> > willing to do that for me, I am still not sure it is the best path,
> > for a variety of reasons.
> >
> > Concerning my own learning style, I don't think there is a big
> > difference which way I go. However, I do recognize that the
> > independent study approach takes more personal initiative.
> >
> > One last thought. I have been lurking in this group for awhile, and
> > agree with the general sentiment on "brain dumps". I am not
> > interested in this approach, and I expect to earn my certification.
> >
> > And and all feedback is welcome.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike

>
> I went the self-taught route and haven't regretted it. It's a lot cheaper,
> there's more learnt imho, and you get a lot more hands-on experience than in
> a classroom. You may not have a tutor but there are groups such as this one
> and many resources to use on the web
>
> I have a 4pc setup with 2 servers and 2 clients, but my work also pay for
> courses though they don't have exams at the end of them. They're the MOCs at
> New Horizon in London.
>
> If you can get the course paid for you, why not do both?
>
>
> Good Luck
>
>
>
>
>
>

 
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