Life After MCSE

Hello all

I have spent the last year and a half on my MCSA/MCSE qualifications
straight out of Uni (Computer Science)... Apparently when I started, no
experience was required... We all know that that was a whole load of bull...
I have seen soo many people come on the course and drop out because the
volume of information they have to read let alone remember is far too much
than a normal human being should be asked to handle... Unfortunatly none of
the girls could keep up on the course... I am not saying anything bad apart
from I wish they did...

Well my question is this... What is it like straight out of MCSE...???

Looking back on my 1.5 years of MCSA/MCSE.. There is a lot I could be
doing... I was wondering what is a MCSE grad expected to do in the
industry..?? Will I be expected to know how to set up a network spanning
multiple buildings like at a university campus that is hacker proof... OK I
know nothing is really hacker proof unless u lock it away.. But I haven't
been taught much about setting up network connections like configuring
routers, setting up backbones or whats the best way to link multiple
buildings together... Would I need the help of Cisco professionals.. And if I
was asked how much would it cost to set up a network of 100 computers, where
would I go to purchase such an amount..?? Does it matter where..??

I have basically gone over a scenario of my own that runs along the lines of
"Can you please make a network for 100 computers that is in 3 different
sites"... Although I can probably get down to it and do most of it.. the more
I think of the implications the more I feel like crying...


I bet it's not going to be that bad but can you guyz please give me some
examples of your first jobs after MCSE qualifcations..?? No names of
companies needed... I am just interested in the responsibilities you were
given, what kind of day-to-day tasks did you do and what was the most
difficult challenge you faced within the first 6 months of the job...

Thanks to everyone or anyone who replies to this message in advance...

=?Utf-8?B?Q2xpZmY=?=

Yes.

(Fris should like this one)

kpg

In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, =?Utf-8?B?Q2xpZmY=?= climbed on a
soapbox & opined:

> Hello all
>
> I have spent the last year and a half on my MCSA/MCSE qualifications
> straight out of Uni (Computer Science)... Apparently when I started,
> no experience<<<Major Snippage>>>>the most difficult challenge you
faced within the first 6 months of
> the job...
>

And here, mes enfants, we have the heart of the problem. MCSE is *not*
designed to be a training program. It is intended to be a means of
certifying that an individual has worked with, and understands Microsoft
systems. If we read the FAQ at:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcse/faq.asp
we see that:
"The MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2000 credential is appropriate for IT
professionals working in the typically complex computing environment of
medium-to-large organizations. We recommend that an MCSE on Windows 2000
have at least one year of experience implementing and administering a
network operating system."

However, during the dot-com explosion of the '90s, there was so much
demand for techies, that any monkey with an MCSE could find a job.
Keeping it was another matter entirely. The world has changed, and loads
of techs are looking for work or have gotten out of the biz entirely. But
training companies are still selling poor saps these certs as a way to
get into the field. The net result is they are pretty much meaningless
except to get past a resume filter and at least be read by a human. If
you want to break into the business, try some of the big box retailers
like CompUSA or whatever is in your area. They'll likely start you at
close to minimum wage, but hey! you are working around computers.

I personally went to work for the service department of a large auto
dealer, and have gradually worked my way into an in-house IT tech
position. But it's been a long haul,and about all the certification
process did for me was introduce me to this newsgroup.<BFG>

Good luck.

There, that's my first semi-rant of the new year. I feel better now.

--
JaR
Thug 10110
Click on MCNGP.com and win nerd32768 a career in health care!

JaR

kpg wrote:
> Yes.
>
> (Fris should like this one)

<THWACK>

<SLAP>
<SLAP>
<SLAP>

--
Fris "Today is my UN-birthday" bee®, MCNGP #13

The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
http://www.mcngp.com

Certaholics
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics

=?Utf-8?Q?Frisbee=C2=AE?=

"Cliff" <> wrote in message
news:E697DFF2-614D-4F4F-B7FE-...
> Hello all
>
<self-doubting snipped>

So you finally got your MCSE and now you're scared to get a job. Don't you
think it would have been good idea to find some of this stuff out BEFORE
investing your time and money. I'll tell you what it's like where I work.
I'm expected to know everything about pretty much everything. Why just last
week I had to trouble shoot a scale because and I quote the luser "it's
plugged into the computer, you HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO FIX IT." If you're
nervous about entering the "real world" you should be. There are alot of
stupid lusers who need to be saved from themselves. I predict if you last a
full year at your first job you'll either find a better job or you'll quit
IT altogether. Good luck and please don't apply to my company.

Doom

>I have spent the last year and a half on my MCSA/MCSE qualifications
>straight out of Uni (Computer Science)... Apparently when I started, no
>experience was required...

HAHAHAHA!!!!

>We all know that that was a whole load of bull...

Rubbish! Now would you like to buy some V*I*A^GR_A?

Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere

heh heh

"Cliff" <> wrote in message
news:E697DFF2-614D-4F4F-B7FE-...
> Hello all
>
> I have spent the last year and a half on my MCSA/MCSE qualifications
> straight out of Uni (Computer Science)... Apparently when I started, no
> experience was required... We all know that that was a whole load of
> bull...
> I have seen soo many people come on the course and drop out because the
> volume of information they have to read let alone remember is far too much
> than a normal human being should be asked to handle... Unfortunatly none
> of
> the girls could keep up on the course... I am not saying anything bad
> apart
> from I wish they did...
>
> Well my question is this... What is it like straight out of MCSE...???
>
> Looking back on my 1.5 years of MCSA/MCSE.. There is a lot I could be
> doing... I was wondering what is a MCSE grad expected to do in the
> industry..?? Will I be expected to know how to set up a network spanning
> multiple buildings like at a university campus that is hacker proof... OK
> I
> know nothing is really hacker proof unless u lock it away.. But I haven't
> been taught much about setting up network connections like configuring
> routers, setting up backbones or whats the best way to link multiple
> buildings together... Would I need the help of Cisco professionals.. And
> if I
> was asked how much would it cost to set up a network of 100 computers,
> where
> would I go to purchase such an amount..?? Does it matter where..??
>
> I have basically gone over a scenario of my own that runs along the lines
> of
> "Can you please make a network for 100 computers that is in 3 different
> sites"... Although I can probably get down to it and do most of it.. the
> more
> I think of the implications the more I feel like crying...
>
>
> I bet it's not going to be that bad but can you guyz please give me some
> examples of your first jobs after MCSE qualifcations..?? No names of
> companies needed... I am just interested in the responsibilities you were
> given, what kind of day-to-day tasks did you do and what was the most
> difficult challenge you faced within the first 6 months of the job...
>
> Thanks to everyone or anyone who replies to this message in advance...

Consultant

Hey... It's not like I am a complete moron.... I have had 2 years A Level
computing and 3 years Computer Sciecne at Sussex Uni... A couple of years
working as head of IT/Administraion for a very small cleaning company (No
network or web pressence unfortuantely, just a bunch of staff who don't know
much about turning on a computer) and now I am finishing MCSA/MCSE....

What I was trying to say is that basically as someone has mentioned... MCSE
seems to imply that you should know everything there is to know about
absolutely everything regarding computers... But MCSE doesn't cover
everything... It seems to be more of a tutorial of how to use some Microsoft
products... Nothing more... Just like a Video manual which we all know can be
a bit difficult... But there are tons of things that MCSE doesn't cover
including where is the best place to go for purchasing mass quantities of
computing equipment and how to setup advanced physical network structures...
Hel... I haven't even seen a server blade throughout the entire course... I
am very disappointed... And now I am sure every employer is going to expect
me to be a IT guru for their firm on just about every little thing they can
think of... I haven't seen any server rooms or been given any information
about how much resources a computer/network needs to support 10 PCs... 100
PCs.... 1000 PCs... or 1 million... It seems like we just have to do things
by trail and error... O and to ask you guyz for help which I have found very
entertaining but not the most helpful advice I have seen...

Happy New Year All and Keep Up The Fun.....

=?Utf-8?B?Q2xpZmY=?=

Hi Cliff.

A MCSE is a certification that an employer would expect the holder to have a
"basic" knowledge of the Microsoft operating system such as installing
operating system, promoting domain controller, configuring dns/wins/dhcp,
joining clients to the domain, configuring users and groups, troubleshooting
connectivity/domain problems, configuring Group and security policy,
installing updates, and the basics on Remote Access, VPN, ipsec, Certificate
Services, IIS, etc.

The scenario you describe is not something that would be expected by being
an MCSE alone. That would require additional experience and be a plus
towards employment. When you go for a job or fill out a resume, be explicit
in what you know.

You can teach yourself a lot of what you mention. Routers are not that hard
to do the basics and the same for firewalls. I suggest you buy an old Cisco
router such as a 2514 - try to get one with all cables, cdroms,
transceivers and a late IOS. Do the same for a firewall such as the
Netscreen 5XP [at least version 4 OS] which has the same operating system as
their high end models. You should be able to get both for under $200 each on
Ebay. Also consider getting a switch such as the HP Procurve 2512 that is
managed and has advanced security features - usually on Ebay for around
$150. There is documentation available for those devices from the
manufactures websites if you need it. I have all these devices on my home
network lab.

Than read and train yourself a lot. There is a ton of good info for free on
the internet and I buy a lot of books on Amazon "used" for less than half of
regular price. Post questions is appropriate newsgroups when you have
further questions. MS has tons of newsgroups. The links below are a start
for more reading and an example of what is available.

http://labmice.techtarget.com/
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/default.mspx
http://www.bookpool.com/.x/m5yz2j6zkr/sm/0735618682
http://www.bookpool.com/.x/m5yz2jpm8n/sm/0735712328
http://www.bookpool.com/.x/m5yz2jsg1...0334&x=33&y=11
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/Sec.../firewall.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sec.../avdind_0.mspx

As far as buying lots of hardware. I have not done that myself but Dell
would be a good place to start and then a place like CDW for other needs. Be
sure to have an idea what you need before purchasing and use the internet to
research ahead of time. Don't be intimidated by 100 computers in three
different sites. You might want to study for the basic Cisco certification
for CCNA to learn more about routing even if you don't plan to take the
exam. Good luck. --- Steve



"Cliff" <> wrote in message
news:E697DFF2-614D-4F4F-B7FE-...
> Hello all
>
> I have spent the last year and a half on my MCSA/MCSE qualifications
> straight out of Uni (Computer Science)... Apparently when I started, no
> experience was required... We all know that that was a whole load of
> bull...
> I have seen soo many people come on the course and drop out because the
> volume of information they have to read let alone remember is far too much
> than a normal human being should be asked to handle... Unfortunatly none
> of
> the girls could keep up on the course... I am not saying anything bad
> apart
> from I wish they did...
>
> Well my question is this... What is it like straight out of MCSE...???
>
> Looking back on my 1.5 years of MCSA/MCSE.. There is a lot I could be
> doing... I was wondering what is a MCSE grad expected to do in the
> industry..?? Will I be expected to know how to set up a network spanning
> multiple buildings like at a university campus that is hacker proof... OK
> I
> know nothing is really hacker proof unless u lock it away.. But I haven't
> been taught much about setting up network connections like configuring
> routers, setting up backbones or whats the best way to link multiple
> buildings together... Would I need the help of Cisco professionals.. And
> if I
> was asked how much would it cost to set up a network of 100 computers,
> where
> would I go to purchase such an amount..?? Does it matter where..??
>
> I have basically gone over a scenario of my own that runs along the lines
> of
> "Can you please make a network for 100 computers that is in 3 different
> sites"... Although I can probably get down to it and do most of it.. the
> more
> I think of the implications the more I feel like crying...
>
>
> I bet it's not going to be that bad but can you guyz please give me some
> examples of your first jobs after MCSE qualifcations..?? No names of
> companies needed... I am just interested in the responsibilities you were
> given, what kind of day-to-day tasks did you do and what was the most
> difficult challenge you faced within the first 6 months of the job...
>
> Thanks to everyone or anyone who replies to this message in advance...

Steven L Umbach

"Cliff" <> wrote in message
news:4E6E4EC0-C332-40B1-8DA8-...
> Hey... It's not like I am a complete moron.... I have had 2 years A Level
> computing and 3 years Computer Sciecne at Sussex Uni... A couple of years
> working as head of IT/Administraion for a very small cleaning company (No
> network or web pressence unfortuantely, just a bunch of staff who don't
know
> much about turning on a computer) and now I am finishing MCSA/MCSE....

you'll need at least 10 years of enterprise experience-the market is dry

> What I was trying to say is that basically as someone has mentioned...
MCSE
> seems to imply that you should know everything there is to know about
> absolutely everything regarding computers...

Not for the last 5 years

> But MCSE doesn't cover
> everything... It seems to be more of a tutorial of how to use some
Microsoft
> products... Nothing more...
> Just like a Video manual which we all know can be
> a bit difficult...
That is exactly the point. it is a MICROSOFT certification, so it is based
on microsoft products, mainly microsoft servers and active directory.

> But there are tons of things that MCSE doesn't cover
> including where is the best place to go for purchasing mass quantities of
> computing equipment

you go to a computer company, aand you buy mass quantities of computers.
Some of the most common are: Dell, HP/Compaq, IBM(lenovo), Gateway, and good
homemade equipment

> and how to setup advanced physical network structures...

again, this is a MICROSOFT certification. Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company.
If you want t know about advanced physical stuff, get your CCNA, and learn
everything about CISCO products, or get a vendor-neutral certification from
CompTIA(Network+)

> Hel... I haven't even seen a server blade throughout the entire course...
I
> am very disappointed...

when was the last time that microsoft sold blades??? Again: THIS IS A
MICROSOFT SOFTWARE CERTIFICATION

> And now I am sure every employer is going to expect
> me to be a IT guru for their firm on just about every little thing they
can
> think of...

If thats how it is, then i wouldn't want to be you

> I haven't seen any server rooms

server rooms...SERVER+

> or been given any information
> about how much resources a computer/network needs to support 10 PCs... 100
> PCs.... 1000 PCs... or 1 million...

That's because that is entry level computing, and can be figured out with
6th grade math, and algebra(as needed). If they put that on the test, then
they will have to change it every f*n day, which would be good for most of
us, but the exam price would go up, and you would be more upset about
microsoft certification

> It seems like we just have to do things
> by trail and error...

That's how you lose your job: Google is your best friend, always

> O and to ask you guyz for help which I have found very
> entertaining but not the most helpful advice I have seen...

That's why we became MCNGP certified(for more information, please see
www.MCNGP.com, the best IT resource in the world)

> Happy New Year All and Keep Up The Fun.....

We don't need a new year for all of the fun. things get really interesting
during the summer.


Nerd32768
MCSA , MCNGP, Network+, A+, waiting for Server+ results(all done during 2
summer breaks)

Nerd32768