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Google - My old posts still live!

 
 
Joe
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      04-30-2007

What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also on
the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the right
to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is there
anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
thing. Is it legal?

Joe.



 
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
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      04-30-2007
Joe wrote:

> What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
> ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages,


Google has been archiving Usenet for many years. Prior to that it was
Dejavu, a company that Google subsequently purchased, along with all the
data.

> they are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell
> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
> them in this way?


There are many web sites that scrape Usenet and store it. They did not
receive the data from Google, and Google is not selling it to them.

> Is there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?


Write your congressperson.

> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
> thing. Is it legal?


Legal? Sure.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
 
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Rhonda Lea Kirk
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      04-30-2007
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:04pZh.390541$(E-Mail Removed)
> Joe wrote:
>
>> What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many
>> years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages,

>
> Google has been archiving Usenet for many years. Prior to that it was
> Dejavu, a company that Google subsequently purchased, along with all
> the data.
>
>> they are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell
>> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
>> them in this way?

>
> There are many web sites that scrape Usenet and store it. They did not
> receive the data from Google, and Google is not selling it to them.
>
>> Is there anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?

>
> Write your congressperson.
>
>> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
>> kind of thing. Is it legal?

>
> Legal? Sure.


The posts can be removed from Google Groups. You'll have a lot more
trouble getting them removed from the other websites.

http://groups.google.com/support/bin...y?answer=46493

--
Rhonda Lea Kirk

Some are tempted to think of life in cyberspace as insignificant,
as escape or meaningless diversion. It is not. Our experiences there
are serious play. We belittle them at our risk. Sherry Turkle


 
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Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
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      04-30-2007
"Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>What is it with Google? I just found some posts by myself from many years
>ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they are also on
>the pages of other websites, verbatim. What the hell gives Google the right
>to sell these posts to other companies and use them in this way? Is there
>anything we can do about this kind of behaviour?
>I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this kind of
>thing. Is it legal?


Your post are public domain. Many years ago it was www.dejanews.com/
that collected and stored your post, it's always been done.

--
Earth as seen from Saturn
http://tinyurl.com/27q733
 
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Mike Easter
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      04-30-2007
Joe wrote:
> What is it with Google?


Googlegroups is a browser interface and long term archiver to usenet a
googlespecific groups. Usenet posts to google propagate to the world's
nntp newsservers.

> I just found some posts by myself from many
> years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they
> are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim.


Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive them.
They don't get the newsmessages from google, they get the messages from
the newsservers.

> What the hell
> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
> them in this way?


You are misunderstanding what is going on. The webforums are the ones
'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google didn't sell
them the words.

> Is there anything we can do about this kind of
> behaviour?


Not anything useful. You might be able to remove your posts from google
and you might be able to convince webforums individually to remove your
posts, but it isn't likely that you would be very effective at that.

> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
> kind of thing. Is it legal?


Yes it is legal and no it is not a disgrace. When you broadcast a
message you can't unbroadcast it.

You can stop posting broadcasted messages if you like.


--
Mike Easter

 
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Joe
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      04-30-2007

"Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4636266f$0$97267$(E-Mail Removed) reenews.net...
> Joe wrote:
>> What is it with Google?

>
> Googlegroups is a browser interface and long term archiver to usenet a
> googlespecific groups. Usenet posts to google propagate to the world's
> nntp newsservers.
>
>> I just found some posts by myself from many
>> years ago, but not only do they appear on the Google NGs pages, they
>> are also on the pages of other websites, verbatim.

>
> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive them.
> They don't get the newsmessages from google, they get the messages from
> the newsservers.
>
>> What the hell
>> gives Google the right to sell these posts to other companies and use
>> them in this way?

>
> You are misunderstanding what is going on. The webforums are the ones
> 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google didn't sell
> them the words.
>
>> Is there anything we can do about this kind of
>> behaviour?

>
> Not anything useful. You might be able to remove your posts from google
> and you might be able to convince webforums individually to remove your
> posts, but it isn't likely that you would be very effective at that.
>
>> I think it's a disgrace that they can apparently get away with this
>> kind of thing. Is it legal?

>
> Yes it is legal and no it is not a disgrace. When you broadcast a
> message you can't unbroadcast it.
>
> You can stop posting broadcasted messages if you like.
>
>
> --
> Mike Easter
>


The 'real' thing that bugs me about all this kind of activity is that many
years ago when I posted things to NGs, I was much greener and didn't even
think for a minute that my posts would be floating around on the internet
for all to see. Nor did I see any warnings from the then NG or Google (who
didn't even exist btw) advising me of the fact that my conversations where
not limited to the NG, but would in fact later be used to gather revenue by
some other companies in the future. There is something intrisically wrong
here as it's a mis-use of information which was taken from it's original
place and used for other reasons than it's original intention. It's all very
well saying "public domain", but this information goes into the hands of big
business, not really the public domain. Also, if it were a song or a poem,
there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?
Hmm.

Cheers.
Joe.



 
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Mike Easter
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      04-30-2007
Joe wrote:
> "Mike Easter"


>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
>> them.


>> The webforums are the
>> ones 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google
>> didn't sell them the words.


> later be used to gather revenue by some other companies in the
> future. There is something intrisically wrong here as it's a mis-use
> of information which was taken from it's original place and used for
> other reasons than it's original intention.


There are many of us who post to usenet newsgroups, not to webforums
which regurgitate those posts, who have gripes about the combination of
their archiving style as well as how the webforum feeds back to the
newsgroups work.

Googlegroups is one set of problems, other webforums are another. Both
of them are somewhat useful for search results, google even more than
the webforums.

> so why not the same
> laws for my posts which were posted personally by me to another NG
> user?


You do actually retain your copyright, which wasn't formally
'copyrighted'.

You just have to understand what are the limitations on your ability to
enforce. You can request/demand that a website which is publishing your
words remove them.

--
Mike Easter

 
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Shel-hed
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-30-2007

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:16:03 GMT, "Joe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>There is something intrisically wrong
>here as it's a mis-use of information which was taken from it's original
>place and used for other reasons than it's original intention.


How old are your oldest posts? Was Deja around then?


>It's all very
>well saying "public domain", but this information goes into the hands of big
>business, not really the public domain. Also, if it were a song or a poem,
>there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
>posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?
>Hmm.


If you want your stuff copyrighted like the corporations, then you are just like
the corporations.
The flip side is, if you write a song or poem and post it on usenet, you have a
pretty good record of it's ownership.


 
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Aardvark
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-30-2007
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:16:03 +0000, Joe wrote:

> there'd be copyright laws to protect us, so why not the same laws for my
> posts which were posted personally by me to another NG user?


I somehow doubt that they were posted to ONE newsgroup user.

The other user(s) was/were posting in a PUBLIC newsgroup for all who were
interested to read and you replied in that same PUBLIC newsgroup, again
for all who were interested to read.

You want private (or at least a semblance thereof) try email, and
remember: never say anything over the phone that you wouldn't also be
prepared to shout across a crowded room.

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007 and Ubuntu 6.06
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.
 
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Joe
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      04-30-2007

"Mike Easter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:46363659$0$97269$(E-Mail Removed) reenews.net...
> Joe wrote:
>> "Mike Easter"

>
>>> Many website forum pages access various usenet groups and archive
>>> them.

>
>>> The webforums are the
>>> ones 'stealing' and 'selling' your words at their sites; google
>>> didn't sell them the words.

>
>> later be used to gather revenue by some other companies in the
>> future. There is something intrisically wrong here as it's a mis-use
>> of information which was taken from it's original place and used for
>> other reasons than it's original intention.

>
> There are many of us who post to usenet newsgroups, not to webforums
> which regurgitate those posts, who have gripes about the combination of
> their archiving style as well as how the webforum feeds back to the
> newsgroups work.
>
> Googlegroups is one set of problems, other webforums are another. Both
> of them are somewhat useful for search results, google even more than
> the webforums.
>
>> so why not the same
>> laws for my posts which were posted personally by me to another NG
>> user?

>
> You do actually retain your copyright, which wasn't formally
> 'copyrighted'.
>
> You just have to understand what are the limitations on your ability to
> enforce. You can request/demand that a website which is publishing your
> words remove them.
>
> --
> Mike Easter
>


What chance do you think I 'really' have of having them removed by request
though?

Joe.



 
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