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Re: Question about Google Groups spammers

 
 
Borked Pseudo Mailed
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      04-16-2007
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Default User <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:30:37 -0600 (MDT), Borked Pseudo Mailed
><Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>> I find it fascinating that, so far, no one seems to want to address this
>> first
>>question, perhaps afraid that the all powerful Google overlords might drop
>>their
>>PR for criticizing them in public?

>
>Both your questions were addressed, you apparently don't want to accept the
>answers.


They were? You can, of course, provide a valid message ID where my specific
questions were specifically answered. Post that message ID in the white space
below, so that everybody can look it up and read the article that verifies your
claim:


>
>1) Blackhole all google messages.


What does that mean? If you are suggesting that readers globally "kill file"
all Google Groups messages, that is no practical solution at all. Readers in
Google Groups don't have that capability, for one, and a significant number of
Google Groups posters are legitimate contributors, not commerical spammers, or
even spammers at all. Granted, some of them may be idiots, but every newsgroup
server that allows posting gets its fair share of idiots posting through it.
>
>2) Botnets, or Zombie networks are nothing new and use regular "campaign"
>updates from their handlers to send out spam in *all* its forms.


But how do they post through Google Groups? Can you cite a web site page
that specifically describes how Google Groups posters use "botnets" or "zombie
networks" to successfully post through the Google Groups network? If so,
please post the technical description page's URL in the white space below:


Paranoid

 
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Borked Pseudo Mailed
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      04-16-2007
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Borked Pseudo Mailed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Borked Pseudo Mailed <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Rick Merrill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >Borked Pseudo Mailed wrote:
>> >[snip]
>> >> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Aardvark <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>> I support spam. I am a spammer myself. There is no such thing as spam.
>> >>> Anybody
>> >>> who questions why Google Groups propagates so much spam is an asshole.
>> >>
>> >> OK.
>> >>
>> >> How about some straight answers? Why are spammers constantly spamming
>> >> usenet and
>> >> morphing sock puppets specifically through the Google Groups web to usenet
>> >> interface,
>> >> and getting away with it? Is it a stupid question?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Yes, it is because the usenet supports anonymity all too easily. Many
>> >ISP want to divest themselves of Usenet alltogether - it's a path for
>> >more criminal intent than mere spam, not to mention trolls, and the user
>> >places the blame on the ISP, who cannot in fact do squat to stop it.
>> >
>> >

>> So you're saying that, even if they wanted to, Google can do little or
>> nothing
>> to stop spammers from abusing their Google Groups accounts by posting
>> commercial

>
>Yup. That's about the size of it. It takes a lot longer to identify a
>spammer's account and act on that information than it does to create an
>account. The math works out against Google or any service of this type.
>They ALL get abused, Google is just more visible than the rest by
>virtue of its size.


That "sounds" like a reasonable explanation. True or not, it sure gives
Google a black eye. But when you're that rich, who cares?

>
>> spam, and constantly creating new sock puppets to help them promote their
>> commerical spam, that has been regularly flooding thousands of news groups.
>> Then
>> what is this address, http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/(E-Mail Removed), supposed to be for? I guess
>> they
>> don't consider commerical spamming any kind of abuse, nothing that rises to
>> the
>> level of getting that commerical spammer's Google Groups account cancelled.

>
>Your "guess" sounds more like a foregone conclusion you'll go to great
>lengths to defend at this point. For whatever reasons you apparently
>have a hardon for Google.


No, but specifically against Google Groups commerical spammers who regularly
abuse their Google Groups accounts, apparently with impunity.

> Some of those reasons may be justified, but
>most are almost certainly not. Fact is you sound an awful lot like
>someone who has had an account at Google terminated for abuse, whining
>about other abusers.


You got me. I am a Google Groups spammer who got his account terminated
for spamming. But why does Google only pick on me, and not the millions of
"other" commericial spammers who keep posting through Google Groups, without
their accounts being terminated? And what's with all the Google Groups sock
puppets that keep crawling out of the woodwork. Bzzzzt! Does not compute.
>
>> I guess that answers the second question, that either there is no
>> practical
>> way to stop it, or the desire on the part of Google to stop them is
>> nonexistent,
>> persuaded, perhaps, by some financial interests in allowing Google Groups
>> account
>> abusers to continue with their commercial spamming activities, unchecked.
>>
>> But that doesn't address the first question, which someone else suggested
>> was
>> accomplished by something called "botnets," noticing that commerical spam
>> originating from Google Groups account abusers shows IP blocks coming from
>> all
>> over the free world. How do they do this? Is it an international usenet
>> "link-exchange" program, or is it being done by sophisticated computer
>> hackers,
>> what gives?

>
>You might want to Google/Wikipedia "botnet". You're lacking some very
>basic information here. Questions are better received when it's
>apparent the interrogator has invested at least a minimal amount of
>effort in finding an answer themselves.


Take you, for example, since you're dodging the question. You need to go
back to troll school. It's the oldest trick in the book, "I could answer the
question, but I won't, because you are an idiot." Thanks for the laugh.
>
>> I find it fascinating that, so far, no one seems to want to address this
>> first
>> question, perhaps afraid that the all powerful Google overlords might drop
>> their
>> PR for criticizing them in public?

>
>Utter nonsense. Your questions have been answered multiple times but
>you keep ignoring those answers so you can go back to barking about how
>Google "doesn't care".


If that is the case, and my specific questions have been specifically
answered, then you, of course, can post the URLs of said replies in this thread
here. Use the whitespace below:
>
>Obviously. Maybe just a little too much so.


Obviously. And nobody cares about their Google PR, either.


Paranoid



























































 
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Not God
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      04-17-2007



Fact: Google Groups spammers cannot be stopped, because Google refuses
to stop them. Everything else is just a worthless excuse. Search
"Occam's razor" if you have a problem understanding that.


In news:(E-Mail Removed) d.net . . . .
Borked Pseudo Mailed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Google is God. I will not blaspheme the name of God.






 
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-_-
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      04-17-2007
Borked Pseudo Mailed wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007, Borked Pseudo Mailed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Borked Pseudo Mailed <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
>>
>>> As most of you already know, there is a serious pandemic problem facing
>>> readers
>>> in news groups. There is a glut of spammers and sock puppets who seem to spam
>>> with
>>> impunity, many through the Google Groups web to usenet interface. I am
>>> talking
>>> about commercial spam, people selling things, people who want your money. I
>>> had
>>> always thought that posting commerical spam links to groups with charters
>>> against it
>>> was considered abuse, and could get the spammer's account cancelled. That no
>>> longer
>>> seems to be the case, at least not with Google.
>>>
>>> Complaints to <(E-Mail Removed)> seem to be ignored. You copy the
>>> complete
>>> spam message with headers and send it to them, with "Commercial SPAM link
>>> complaint"
>>> or other obvious wording in the subject title, but no bananas. The spam
>>> continues,
>>> and new Google sock puppets keep popping up like summer dandelions.
>>>
>>> A few months ago, I began tracking the IP addresses in the spam and sock
>>> puppet
>>> message headers, of all spam that has been disrupting our groups, noticing
>>> that
>>> some
>>> of the messages had been cross posted to other groups, and in very odd
>>> combinations.
>>>
>>> I began to notice that the Google IP addresses in the spam headers are
>>> coming
>> >from all over the place, from Australia, the US, UK, everywhere that Google
>>> Groups
>>> is accessible.
>>>
>>> I don't get it. I can't believe that spammers around the world could be
>>> working
>>> in cahoots, could they? Have spammers created a global usenet link-exchange
>>> program,
>>> where they agree to constantly create new Google sock puppets, each from their
>>> own
>>> injection points that Google identifies by IP block, then keep posting each
>>> other's
>>> spammy links in usenet messages, and maybe to proprietary Google web groups
>>> too?
>>>
>>> I know there are plenty of other spammy ISPs and what not. But how many
>>> other
>>> Google Groups are there? It's like they are working tag teams. One Google
>>> user
>>> posts a newbie message "I am new here," "I need information." Then the
>>> spammer
>>> responds right on que, usually with their own Google Groups account, or other
>>> usenet
>>> service.
>>>
>>> So I guess I have two questions. Is an international spammer's
>>> "link-exchange"
>>> program really going on here? And if it is, then is there any practical way
>>> to
>>> stop
>>> them? Maybe I'm just being paranoid, or don't fully understand how the whole
>>> Google
>>> Groups posting thing works. Spam sucks. Whatever happened to the UDP?
>>>
>>> Paranoid
>>>

>> You're either a troll or eelbash, who, of course, never heard about
>> botnets.

>
> Actually, you've helped to suggest an answer to one of my two primary
> questions, to some extent, that it may be possible that spammers have
> automated programs that allow them to post and morph through the Google
> Groups interface. But isn't Google the world's leading search engine? Why,
> or how, would they allow malicious commercial spammers to take advantage
> of them?
>
> I'm not the reviled eelbash, but I'm probably ignorant enough about the
> subject matter on Internet spam, to qualify as a "troll" in the watchful eyes
> of Internet experts. I am just sick of the spam. If there is nothing that
> can be done about it, then I suppose that is that. Please say it isn't so.
>
> I've never heard of botnets before, so I searched that term inclusive of
> usenet AND spam AND google AND groups, which returns some interesting results.
>
> I read that the "24hoursupport.helpdesk" and "alt.internet.search-engines"
> groups might be of help on this, so I've added them to this reply.
>
> Paranoid
>

Here is an eWeek story on botnets you may find interesting.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...MNL041707EP38A

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Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-18-2007
-_- <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> I've never heard of botnets before, so I searched that term inclusive of
>> usenet AND spam AND google AND groups, which returns some interesting results.


>> I read that the "24hoursupport.helpdesk" and "alt.internet.search-engines"
>> groups might be of help on this, so I've added them to this reply.
>>
>> Paranoid


>Here is an eWeek story on botnets you may find interesting.
>
>http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...MNL041707EP38A



Better article - long read
http://www.honeynet.org/papers/bots/


--

http://www.onahorse.com/
 
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-_-
Guest
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      04-18-2007
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> -_- <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> I've never heard of botnets before, so I searched that term inclusive of
>>> usenet AND spam AND google AND groups, which returns some interesting results.

>
>>> I read that the "24hoursupport.helpdesk" and "alt.internet.search-engines"
>>> groups might be of help on this, so I've added them to this reply.
>>>
>>> Paranoid

>
>> Here is an eWeek story on botnets you may find interesting.
>>
>> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895...MNL041707EP38A

>
>
> Better article - long read
> http://www.honeynet.org/papers/bots/
>
>
> --
>
> http://www.onahorse.com/

Quite so.

Thanks.

-_-
 
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