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Frames page links

 
 
Brian Robertson
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      04-27-2007
Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?

I have a frames based page at
http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960

I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
home page. How do I do this?

Brian.
 
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Amos E Wolfe
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      04-27-2007
"Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
news:8SlYh.2335$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?
>
> I have a frames based page at
> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
>
> I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
> change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
> home page. How do I do this?
>


If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate frameset
page with different content in the main frame area. Other members of this
group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you with a number of reasons
why using frames is a bad idea.

I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting. I use
php which is extremely simple once you get the hang of a few basic commands.
For example, this site http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/ has a header, footer
and menu which stay the same, and the end of the url designates which page
is to be loaded into the main area, as in this example
http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/index.php?id=design

There are many free resources on the Internet which can help you with
learning php.
Start here perhaps: http://snipurl.com/1iet4


-=# Amos E Wolfe #=-
Get Firefox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=122394


 
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Brian Robertson
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      04-27-2007
Amos E Wolfe wrote:
> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
> news:8SlYh.2335$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?
>>
>> I have a frames based page at
>> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
>>
>> I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
>> change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
>> home page. How do I do this?
>>

>
> If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate frameset
> page with different content in the main frame area. Other members of this
> group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you with a number of reasons
> why using frames is a bad idea.
>
> I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting. I use
> php which is extremely simple once you get the hang of a few basic commands.
> For example, this site http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/ has a header, footer
> and menu which stay the same, and the end of the url designates which page
> is to be loaded into the main area, as in this example
> http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/index.php?id=design
>
> There are many free resources on the Internet which can help you with
> learning php.
> Start here perhaps: http://snipurl.com/1iet4
>
>
> -=# Amos E Wolfe #=-
> Get Firefox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=122394
>
>


Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and I agree that frames are a
poor answer to the problem of layout BUT it is an answer that I largely
understand and right now the content of the site itself is taking up all
my time, running into well over 1,000 pages that all need a lot of work
doing on them. In time, as I near completion in the information that I
am presenting, I will certainly try to look for other solutions.

I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge. Does this
make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.

Thanks anyway.

Brian.
 
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John Hosking
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      04-27-2007
Brian Robertson wrote:
> Amos E Wolfe wrote:
>> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
>> news:8SlYh.2335$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>> I have a frames based page at
>>> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
>>>

>>
>> If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate
>> frameset page with different content in the main frame area. Other
>> members of this group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you
>> with a number of reasons why using frames is a bad idea.
>>
>> I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting.
>>

>
> Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and I agree that frames are a
> poor answer to the problem of layout BUT it is an answer that I largely
> understand and right now the content of the site itself is taking up all
> my time, running into well over 1,000 pages that all need a lot of work
> doing on them. In time, as I near completion in the information that I
> am presenting, I will certainly try to look for other solutions.
>
> I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
> links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
> top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
> want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
> relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
> Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
> else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
> frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge.


This is one of the reasons Frames Are Evil. Frames prevent sensible
bookmarking, which equates to the same limitation you're facing, no
direct linking to specific framed content.

See for example Reason 0 at
http://www.mattheerema.com/archive/e...are-frames-bad or
"Bookmarking" at http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?FramesAreEvil. The
second reference especially shows that Amos did not misunderstand your
problem, it's the only other way (besides SSI or disposing of the
frames) to link directly to the page.

--
John
 
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Jonathan N. Little
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-27-2007
Brian Robertson wrote:

> I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
> links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
> top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
> want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
> relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
> Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
> else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
> frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge. Does this
> make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.


No Brian I think you are misunderstanding the situation, with frames
externally linking or bookmarking specific site becomes nearly
impossible because the outermost frame is only linkable. It is one of
the *big* problems with frames. To overcome this limitation requires either

A) Clever JavaScript processing which is a *bad* idea to depend on
client-side scripting for navigation

B) Server-side processing e.g.,
www.conceptcrafts.co.uk?page=britishrailways1960

The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should* do
it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use server-side
to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and content,
eliminating the *need* for frames.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
 
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Brian Robertson
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-27-2007
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Brian Robertson wrote:
>
>> I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
>> links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
>> top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
>> want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
>> relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
>> Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
>> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then
>> something else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into
>> the main frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge.
>> Does this make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.

>
> No Brian I think you are misunderstanding the situation, with frames
> externally linking or bookmarking specific site becomes nearly
> impossible because the outermost frame is only linkable. It is one of
> the *big* problems with frames. To overcome this limitation requires either
>
> A) Clever JavaScript processing which is a *bad* idea to depend on
> client-side scripting for navigation
>
> B) Server-side processing e.g.,
> www.conceptcrafts.co.uk?page=britishrailways1960
>
> The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
> site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should* do
> it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use server-side
> to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and content,
> eliminating the *need* for frames.
>


Superb people. Yes, it was me that was getting the wrong end of the
stick and now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.

Thanks again for answering my question and putting up with my dumbness.

Brian.
 
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John Hosking
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-27-2007
Brian Robertson wrote:
>
> Thanks again for answering my question and putting up with my dumbness.


Don't worry; it won't happen again.

--
John
 
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dorayme
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-27-2007
In article <IitYh.2563$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Brian Robertson <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:

> now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
> dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.


In your case, I recommend, as a practical and quick first step to
simply cast the whole site into a two col table, what you have in
the left frame goes into the left col on each page, the right
frame, of course, is replaced by the content into a right col.
naturally, you will have to modify a few links but it is very
easy work and the whole thing is greatly assisted by a good grasp
of Search & Replace functions that come with good text editors.
You can do a lot of this conversion out of frames automatically
and quickly. Believe me, I have done it and was glad to be out of
frames for a reasonable sized website a while back.

When you have less time pressure, you can then look into getting
rid of what many people will tell you is a (lesser than frames)
evil: tables for layout. The next step, if you want to take it,
is to later convert out of tables, a left floated navigation and
right content is good if done carefully. But don't go there yet
no matter what others say, you will get into time trouble.

Your use of tables in your right frame is irrelevant to my advice
here. But this one makeover will solve the problem you were
facing about linking.

--
dorayme
 
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Neredbojias
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Posts: n/a
 
      04-28-2007
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:46:32 GMT Brian Robertson scribed:

>> The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
>> site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should*
>> do it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use
>> server-side to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and
>> content, eliminating the *need* for frames.
>>

>
> Superb people. Yes, it was me that was getting the wrong end of the
> stick and now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
> dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.


I'd just like to add you might want to take a quick look at php because
even minimal familiarity with that server-side scripting platform would
solve your problem with or without frames.

--
Neredbojias
He who laughs last sounds like an idiot.
 
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